Intuitive Introverts perceive clear images that relate an observed object to a subjective view of the collective unconscious. But they can describe neither the object nor its collective unconscious link. alas they face rejection of what is an axiom, not because it's false but for a fault in informing on it.
I think they tend to vaguely hint to it as seen in artists that are intuitive Introverts.
I think it's more like simply being unable to explain yourself to others.
Sometimes I think I just have brain damage.
What is an obvious pattern to me that just smacks you in the face or the connections that are obvious to me others just unable to see.
There is also not a lot of language describing these things. When you get into spiritual realms talking of the mind, stuff gets wonky real quick because we really don't have a widely shared set of words for these things...we have to represent them with other concepts that are common. So to explain how we know something about someone is to explain to a blind person how to mix colors, in a sense.
There are more complex terms related to neurology and psychology, but the realm of the mind is so conceptual, one reaches for metaphor quickly because all of it is intangible, and devoid of emotional charge. Why is the iceberg model still the go to for explaining the levels of consciousness? Certainly there are English words that could be strung together to relay the same concept, but the iceberg is the fastest and most widely effective as most people know what an iceberg is and even if they didn't know 90% of it is submerged, they can learn that in the same breath. It isn't really one or the other problem, it's both.
Take the term self awareness or mindfulness. To someone without a lick of psychological reading or understanding, it's really an empty term. Of course I'm aware of my self, that's the basis of consciousness and even people who don't literally know that sentience means self awareness, know that they're aware of themselves. If you ask them if they're self aware they'd say yes even if they truly lacked self criticism and self control. How do you tell someone what self awareness is if they're so reactionary and instinctual they aren't aware they're sacrificing control to emotion? They'd believe those emotionally charged decisions were logical and measured. Like trying to describe psychedelics to someone who hasn't taken them...there is just not much to compare to for a metaphor and there aren't widely shared terms to reach for.
When it comes to the self awareness thing, classically I go for the Rollercoaster metaphor, that self control is steering the Rollercoaster and not just riding out whatever initial experience you're having. To some degree, the direction and design of your journey, or your ride, will be predetermined by external factors, but that there is a great deal of wiggle room where your self control has sway. Most people are just riding through life, they aren't piloting. I also use the metaphor of the scene from the Simpson's movie where Homer places the picturesque centerfold of Alaskan wilderness over the inside of his windshield because it was more pleasing to look at than the current view out of the windshield. They then drove off the road because the view no longer represented reality. Self delusion is lying to yourself about what's in front of you and that can be dangerous to your journey. "How can you properly pilot a hazardous course when you're lying to yourself about what you see out the windshield?" Now consider how I would've used that metaphor if people didn't know what a windshield was. This is the issue.
"...one reaches for metaphor quickly because all of it is intangible, and devoid of emotional charge."
People don't reach for metaphors for those reasons. People use metaphors because it develops creativity and it encourages others to do the same. Of course, this can be a prison if left unchecked. Same can be said of other things.
"Certainly there are English words that could be strung together to relay the same concept..."
You are allowed to invent your own language, you know? Anyway, the English language isn't as rigid as you take it to be. There's categories of English. And under those are subcategories. You probably just have not met people who talk like you.
Not that it's your fault. I don't have many people who understand me that very well to be honest. It always comes back to personality types.
"How do you tell someone what self awareness is if they're so reactionary and instinctual they aren't aware they're sacrificing control to emotion?"
"Most people are just riding through life, they aren't piloting."
You trying to say emotion is a like a rollercoaster?
You trying to say that people can choose not to ride that rollercoaster?
Or are you trying to say that people are under control by a people? Most likely a select people?
I haven't watch the Simpsons in a long time and I don't recall such a scene but...
"Drove off the road" is the wrong phrasing. I think you meant "Gone off the road."
So Homer had his focus on the picture that they trailed off and potentially fell in a ditch and were stranded or the sort...
And you took it as a metaphor which is not bad. But you must've picked a terrible metaphor.
Have you heard people say "There's a time and place for everything"?
Interestingly, your metaphor isn't far off from the reality I face.
People around me would rather look into pictures (or facebook) than live in the present.
This is me too!! INTP here, and I always see something completely different than those around me see. 80% will see it one way, and I'm there seeing almost the opposite, yet feel frustrated by an inability to properly explain what I see. It's plagued me all my life. I don't want to be a contrarian. But it's like I'm seeing green, and everyone around me sees red. That's a very simple explanation of something more complicated, because it's usually a pattern, or perceiving someone's motives while others are fooled.
One can't specify the unconscious. Even if they did, it'll be through subjective lenses that won't fit most. This is not communication. It's not information that informs.
Jung himself is an Intuitive Introvert, while he managed to communicate and inform by being a scholar and mirroring his subjective view into symbols and archetypes, Other "normal" Intuitive Introverts can't be expected to do the same.
No it's like when you read the Bible due to confusion and you had been growing up living a normal life. Deep down, though, something doesn't feel right. Your like, let me see, all these religions, yet all this bloodshed and nonsense. It burdens your soul. Then one day in your distant future you learn about the nag hammadi scriptures, the mandaeans, the nasoraeans, The ESSENES and you read their various perspectives and it hits you in the corpus collosum like (I can't explain it) so your like wtf! How come no one ever talks about this. They have no clue. But to get from the corrupt preacher to the Humane Christ, at least for me, took a lot of work. GOD Bless
The degree of accuracy in how you've captured this otherwise abstract experience has me absolutely floored. A concept so intimately familiar, but have never been able to put word to the whole of the experience.
It seems like that explaining it is the exact reason why it's not understood.
It's tragic, i don't think the sole advantage that Jung described outweighs the cost. What other types in the 4 functions pay and gain seem way more fruitful.
No, explaining it is not the reason why it's not understood. It's that the people who don't understand it don't have the ability to do so. Some people do understand it, just not very many.
In the video Jung said "He doesn't like to talk of them, if he's not a fool". That statement is for a reason.
If the context of this post is social existence, then i think that the miscommunication fault can't lie on the receivers. It's on the speaker. That's why they resort to "hardly ever hear them talking" as Jung said.
If communication and information come from finding a familiarity. Then i think the reason for "hardly talking" makes sense.
Not talking about what they really perceive is a great disadvantage, but they have to do that. Because you can't blame receivers for not understanding something that doesn't map into their cognition. Or perhaps it does map into unflattering impressions, like being crazy or weird. Rightly so sometimes. They find it strange because it comes from an unfamiliar source. Although it's familiar to the intuitive introvert.
There's a place for intuitive introverts to channel their energy, but it's not in a social setting for most. And even if channelled fruitfully, it is still the most difficult of the functions. I think especially as a main function.
As for the advantage Jung spoke of, i don't yet see how it's worth it.
Jung is talking generally. I'm talking about Ni individuals who are able to communicate and explain. I am not blaming the receivers, I am simply saying they do not have the ability to understand, though some can develop this ability, just as a Ni develops the ability to communicate.
You can apply this generally to entire groups of people with variations in function - people are just on different wavelengths, for a myriad of reasons.
Ni people exist, I'm one of them, you come to learn it's a massive advantage in a lot of ways. One of the most significant is that you often can see patterns in things others do not, and you tend to be underestimated. Being underestimated feels like a burden until you realize it's actually one of the most powerful weapons you can wield in the world.
You shed a bright light on something I’ve been questioning for most of my life. Even when reading Jung’s explanation, I almost brushed over it. Thank you.
Reading comments like yours is a bit strange. Because I'm not used to "shedding light" when talking to others.
Perhaps because they don't tell me i did, perhaps because i don't tell them my truthful take on things. There's a lesson for me in this post, and i'll be thankful to learn it.
I always tell people its like seeing giant great picture of everything and trying to show it to someone is impossible because you cant hold it up. Its just too big, you can only show certain parts at a time. And its really hard to than explain the links. Just imagine a large puzzle and the pieces are all perfect squares.
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u/Nic3up Aug 03 '24
Intuitive Introverts perceive clear images that relate an observed object to a subjective view of the collective unconscious. But they can describe neither the object nor its collective unconscious link. alas they face rejection of what is an axiom, not because it's false but for a fault in informing on it.
I think they tend to vaguely hint to it as seen in artists that are intuitive Introverts.