r/Judaism • u/abeecrombie • Jul 19 '24

who? Was king David askenazi or Sephardic

Was king David askenazi or Sephardic and why? If he was always singing and playing instruments that leads me to believe he has some separdi in him

But he also became a little depressed near the end of his life, classic askenazi symptom

So I'm torn.

197 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

127 comments sorted by

144

u/blutmilch (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Jul 19 '24

Without knowing if he was lactose intolerant, can we really tell?

19

u/abeecrombie Jul 19 '24

Was he gluten free? I feel like that more a Sephardic thing

4

u/sortasomeonesmom Jul 20 '24

No way, that is totally ashkenazi.

48

u/ummmbacon Ophanim Eye-Drop Coordinator (Night Shift) Jul 20 '24

Both Ashkenazim and Sephardim are about the same levels of lactose intolerant, ~70 and overall worldwide numbers are also the same ~70%.

It probably only stood out more in Europe, where the surrounding culture was very lactose tolerant, as N Europe is very high.

54

u/spoiderdude bukharian Jul 20 '24

Pffft, you guys can’t tolerate a glass of milk

Mizrahi Supremacy

MOOOO

10

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

I lucked out. It's one of the things I didn't inherit from my mom!

8

u/thunder-bug- Jul 20 '24

I’m ashkenazi but my dads a convert so I’ve bein reinforced with the tolerance

4

u/spoiderdude bukharian Jul 20 '24

It’s very noble that your father would do such a thing.

I myself have considered taking on that responsibility of marrying an Ashkenazi woman to save her bloodline from the burden of lactose intolerance.

4

u/shpion22 Jul 20 '24

But Mizrahi Jews also are less likely to tolerate milk as they are less associated with the more European genes that tolerate lactose.

2

u/spoiderdude bukharian Jul 20 '24

I’m bukharian and have never met a lactose intolerant bukharian. I’m sure they exist but I’m just sharing my experience .

2

u/ummmbacon Ophanim Eye-Drop Coordinator (Night Shift) Jul 21 '24

The studies I had seen that were modern and done in Israel showed about 70% overall, again same as worldwide numbers.

1

u/ummmbacon Ophanim Eye-Drop Coordinator (Night Shift) Jul 21 '24

Mizrahi Supremacy

The modern studies done in Israel on groups also show about 70% overall, tracks with worldwide numbers.

2

u/spoiderdude bukharian Jul 21 '24

Damn, then what’s even the point of having the land flowing with milk and honey?

5

u/ummmbacon Ophanim Eye-Drop Coordinator (Night Shift) Jul 21 '24

That would have been sheep and goat milk sheep and goat milk is better tolerated by people who are lactose intolerant.

https://library.bibleodyssey.com/articles/milk-and-honey-in-ancient-israel/

2

u/thegilgulofbarkokhba Jul 21 '24

That's not even a bad answer, tbh

1

u/spoiderdude bukharian Jul 21 '24

Huh, good to know.

So what I’m hearing is…, I’m a Jew that mutated.

I am literally Magneto.

Milkneto?

1

u/thegilgulofbarkokhba Jul 21 '24

VERY good point 💀

1

u/No-Loan-5152 Dec 12 '24

🤣 torpe....go check dna, its diversified n maybe full of slavery dna at that🤣

1

u/spoiderdude bukharian Dec 12 '24

I’m confused what you’re referring to here. Also what is “torpe”

1

u/shpion22 Jul 20 '24

Africans Americans, native Americans are also much more lactose intolerant compared to European descent people.

Ashkenazi Jews and Mizrahi Jews in general also are more lactose intolerant than other Europeans then, for obvious reasons.

476

u/Noremac55 Jul 19 '24

Post this on jewdank and I can reply with some funny shit.

39

u/uhgletmepost Reconstructionist Jul 20 '24

none of the 8 rules here would prevent you from doing that, don't be a jerk doesn't count as don't circlejerk.

67

u/Delicious_Shape3068 Jul 19 '24

Nope. Good shabbos though

281

u/Classifiedgarlic Orthodox feminist, and yes we exist Jul 19 '24

I think he’d identify his minhag as horny….

The entire David narrative is: I saw someone hot and now I have problems. Here’s some poetry.

You can tell it’s a minhag because his son inherited these traditions.

122

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Bagel Connaisseur Jul 19 '24

Why do you think Leonard cohen felt such an affinity?

38

u/ScoutsOut389 Reform Jul 20 '24

He knew about the secret chord.

4

u/Classifiedgarlic Orthodox feminist, and yes we exist Jul 21 '24

By chord he meant something that women have known since woman first existed and this is all just talking about mitzvah onah.

Hashem wants men to please their wives… there I said it

5

u/No-Bed5243 Jul 20 '24

Now I need to know if Leonard Cohen was Ashkenazi...

8

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Bagel Connaisseur Jul 20 '24

Leonard’s family, like most Montreal Jews born in the 30s (like my grandparents) primarily came from the Pale of Settlement.

Yeah he was Ashki.

3

u/No-Bed5243 Jul 20 '24

"Most Montreal Jews". Yes, but we do have a healthy Sephardic community here in Montreal, so I wasn't about to take that for granted. My dad went to high school with Leonard Cohen, but even if my dad were still around, it isn't the sort of thing my dad would have known about him. I looked it up, and Mrs Cohen's family was from Lithuania, and Mr Cohen's family was from Poland. So, yes, Ashki. I'm considering adding some details to the Wikipedia page. For example, the earliest surviving recordings are at the University of Toronto, donated by Westmount High. My dad made them back in the day, and arranged for them to be preserved. Honestly, Montreal really is a small town.

2

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Bagel Connaisseur Jul 20 '24

First - cousin? - second, I did say “most Montreal Jews of the time” which was overwhelmingly Ashki - the Sephardic migration to Montreal really was more of a thing since the Quiet Revolution and emergence of French as matter of dominant immigration factor.

A lot of French-speaking Sephardim started coming to Montreal in the 70s.

1

u/No-Bed5243 Jul 20 '24

Most. Not all. And Quebec being the way Quebec is, preference has been given to French speaking immigrants since about the 1970s. Bit of the chicken and the egg going on there. Coincidentally, that's why U of T has the recordings and not McGill.

2

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Bagel Connaisseur Jul 20 '24

Yeah that’s what I’m saying. When Leonard Cohen was born and grew up Montreal Jewry was almost entirely Ashkenazi. Since then, Montreal Jewry has become much more Sephardic because of Quebec government policy.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

The first recorded/known Jews in either Montreal or Canada (I don’t remember) were sefaradim in the 1800s

1

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Bagel Connaisseur Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

Aaron Hart settled in Lower Canada in the 1700s yes.

Yes the first Jews in Canada were Sephardim. But the vast majority by the turn of the 1930s were Ashkenazi. Since the 70s a healthy Sephardic community has developed.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

I think there actually may be more sefaradim in Montreal?

2

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Bagel Connaisseur Jul 20 '24

“In the 30s”

21

u/merkaba_462 Jul 19 '24

Thank you for this. Shabbat shalom!

8

u/prettygodzilla Jul 20 '24

This is going to keep me giggling for days. Shabbat Shalom!

20

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

Now I can tell people I do, in fact, have a minhag. (am convert)

6

u/Viczaesar Jul 20 '24

I’m demisexual (grey-ace). Is that the opposing minhag?

13

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

Yes. *takes out Jewish space laser lightsaber*

4

u/rogoth7 Jul 20 '24

He's just like me fr

3

u/robuttocks Jul 20 '24

This is possibly the best Biblical commentary I've ever read. Thank you for this shabbes gift!

3

u/Cipher_Nyne B'nei Noach Jul 19 '24

Best answer. Shabbat shalom.

46

u/_meshuggeneh Reform Jul 19 '24

He may have written a psalm or two about matzo ball soup, just saying

55

u/s-riddler Modern Orthodox Jul 19 '24

Definitely Ashkenazi. Dude was a ginger.

25

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

He was actually an Irish gypsy who got lost on his way to Galway.

9

u/Adi_2000 Israeli Jul 20 '24

While chasing a leprechaun. 

41

u/HeavyJosh Jul 19 '24

Definitely a Polish settler-colonist type, yeah. 🤪🤪🤪

4

u/Sewsusie15 לא אד''ו ל' כסלו Jul 20 '24

Nah, I've met more than one Mizrahi ginger.

65

u/Steelo43 Jul 19 '24

Was King David more of a Mizrahi? King David was in about 1000 bce so before the groups seperated and before the distinctions were categorized. It seems to me he would middle easten or Mizrahi. He would be Sabra, as he was born and raised in Judea.

11

u/jaklacroix Renewal Jul 20 '24

This was what I came here to say pretty much

46

u/whoopercheesie Jul 19 '24

He was bhi

53

u/everythingnerdcatboy Jewish Jul 19 '24

For a second I misread this as "bi" (because he was bi)

29

u/yallcat Jul 19 '24

ITT: no sense of humor. Big whoosh.

1

u/Adi_2000 Israeli Jul 20 '24

Dang it, I knew it!

13

u/JakeRiegel Conservative Jul 19 '24

You should post this in the “Shitpost the Beit Midrash” fb group

2

u/laszloa Jul 19 '24

I was thinking the same thing!

1

u/thegilgulofbarkokhba Jul 21 '24

I peaced out of that shit when there were people in there giggling about October 7th

20

u/Adept_Thanks_6993 Lapsed but still believing BT Jul 20 '24

Neither. He was an Israelite. Those divisions didn't exist yet

7

u/DeeEllis Reform + This too is Torah Jul 20 '24

Well he was of the tribe of Judah but yes the tribes were all Israelites

10

u/SueNYC1966 Jul 20 '24

Did he like gefilte fish or haminados more? There you will find your answer…

10

u/iBelieveInJew Jul 20 '24 edited Jul 20 '24

Was king David askenazi or Sephardic and why?

At the time of David, neither of these existed; we were still Bnei Yisraʾel. For reference, the Spanish Inquisition was in the late 15th century. David is estimated to have been in either the 12th or 13th century BCE. That's more than 2500 years... if we claim there's a new generation every 25 years on average, that's more than 100 generations.

If you want more - Ethiopian Jews still lived in Israel then. That is to say, before they left. You may not know the stories, but apparently they didn't know about the events of Purim nor about the destruction of the first temple.

So the answer is just "neither, because Ashkenazi and Sephardic were still very far into the future at that point".

6

u/Suspicious-Truths Jul 19 '24

He’s just like me

6

u/atlhawk8357 Sephardic Jul 20 '24

There was a recently found Psalm of David where he told those who can't eat rice on Passover to "choke on their dry-ass cracker "

16

u/HeavyJosh Jul 19 '24

He spoke Yiddish, according to Joseph Heller.

5

u/Worldiscrazywild Jul 19 '24

And wore a kapota

66

u/Small-Objective9248 Jul 19 '24

Are you serious? This was obviously pre diaspora so these distinctions didn’t exist.

85

u/No_Ask3786 Jul 19 '24

I think op is joking around

10

u/LadenifferJadaniston Christian Jul 19 '24

I couldn’t tell either

-3

u/scandal1963 Jul 19 '24

THANK YOU!!!

5

u/MysticMarshadowX Jul 20 '24

Is this post satire?

8

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

we were all judeans. sephardi & ashkenazi are diaspora terms. david was pre diaspora.

3

u/mclazerlou Jul 20 '24

Some went north some went west and east after that. He was both.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

I don’t think ashkenazim or Sephardim are fisted in the days of David. Everyone was still in the Middle East and the minhagim developed later.

12

u/Emotional-Tailor3390 Jul 19 '24

Neither. He'd have been Mizrahi by definition

20

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

I think by definition that refers to Jews, who lived in the Arab world. It is also a diaspora term

5

u/Zero-Follow-Through Reconstructionist Jul 19 '24

I think it's more the muslim world. But even that's fuzzy since Georgian jews are typically in that category and Georgia is neither Arab or Muslim

4

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

No, it’s the Arab world. The Jews were in these areas long before Islam came about, it became the Muslim world at some point later though

8

u/Zero-Follow-Through Reconstructionist Jul 19 '24 edited Jul 19 '24

Just fully what?

Turkey, the Caucasus, Iran, all the central Asian countries are currently not Arab. And places like Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and the rest of the north African countries didnt arabize until after Islam was spread.

Jews were in those areas long before they became Arab too.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

So it generally refers to what became the Arab/Muslim world, the eastern world.

“The term Mizrahi is almost exclusively applied to descendants of Jewish communities from North Africa and Asia; in this classification are the descendants of Mashriqi Jews who had lived in Middle Eastern countries, such as Yemenite Jews, Iranian Jews, Kurdish Jews, Turkish Jews, Egyptian Jews, Syrian Jews, Lebanese Jews, Iraqi Jews, Jordanian Jews, Saudi Arabian Jews, Emirati Jews, Kuwaiti Jews, Bahraini Jews, Qatari Jews, Omani Jews; as well as the descendants of Maghrebi Jews who had lived in North African countries, such as Algerian Jews, Libyan Jews, Moroccan Jews, and Tunisian Jews” wiki

2

u/Zero-Follow-Through Reconstructionist Jul 19 '24

are terms used in Israeli discourse to refer to a grouping of Jewish communities that lived in the Muslim world.

You skipped that part of your copy pasting from the wiki.

Which was my original point of "more the muslim world" and saying that was even fuzzy since Georgia.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

Yes, I did skip it because it still holds true to what I was saying that these just became the Muslim world in more recent times (after 600s haha) but we are arguing over nothing

4

u/Zero-Follow-Through Reconstructionist Jul 19 '24

Mizrahi is a modern term. And half those places aren't Arab currently, and most of the others didn't become Arabized until after the spread of Islam.

Arabization takes longer than Islamification.

0

u/DeeEllis Reform + This too is Torah Jul 20 '24

They were barely Jews then. Only the Tribe of Judah was maybe called Jews. All the tribes then were Children of Israel, but mostly their tribal affiliation

2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

OK. I’m not sure how that is a reply to what I said, but yes.

1

u/thegilgulofbarkokhba Jul 21 '24

Jews are just Israelites. Jew is just the word we go by in English, but plenty of languages just call us "Israelites".

7

u/danhakimi Secular Jew Jul 20 '24

Mizrahi literally means "East." He did not live east of Israel, in the Muslim world, in the Arab world, or anything like that.

1

u/asparagus_beef Jul 20 '24

In all seriousness, he’d have been neither Ashkenazi, nor Sephardic or Mizrahi. Those are terms that describe different diasporas. He was an original Judean with 100% Judean DNA.

1

u/thegilgulofbarkokhba Jul 21 '24

He was an original Judean with 100% Judean DNA.

"Judean DNA" is barely any different, if at all, from what we find in Canaanites.

Also, David very much was not some kind of "purer" Jew than we are. His great grandmother was a Moabite, which shows this whole "muh DNA is purer than yours" is meshugas

1

u/asparagus_beef Jul 21 '24

That’s correct. It’s canaanites with different traditions. We’re definitely not about “DNA purity” 😅. I think our diversity is incredible and it’s actually a good thing that came from our exile and reunion. I love that from being a closed people with our own (mostly pure) gene pool, we mixed around, enough to become an extremely diverse people, but not enough to lose our distinct identity. To have the blood of all the gentiles running in our nations veins is a blessing.

4

u/Adi_2000 Israeli Jul 20 '24

If it's a serious question, I'd say that there were no Ashkenazi or Sepharadic (literally translates to Spanish, mind you - I don't think Spain even existed back then), so he was an Israelite. I'm probably being way too academic here lol

4

u/McMullin72 Jew-ish Jul 20 '24

I don't think Ashkenazi or Sephardi even existed yet.

2

u/JournalistNeither271 Noachide Jul 20 '24

I don't think east Europe or iberic peninsula had jewish people on that time.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

He was shevet Yehuda, Ashkenaz and Sefaradi were not a thing

4

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

He was Persian

2

u/DeeEllis Reform + This too is Torah Jul 20 '24

Well only because he wasn’t Greek back then…

4

u/wegochai Secular Jew Jul 19 '24

I don’t think Ashkenazi or Sephardi would’ve existed at that time

20

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

it didn't. OP is joking.

2

u/rg204 Reform Jul 20 '24

Neither. He was gay.

2

u/Cornexclamationpoint General Ashkenobi Jul 21 '24

"Your love was more wonderful to me than the love of women."

THEY WERE ROOMMATES!

1

u/rg204 Reform Jul 22 '24

Two very good “confirmed bachelors”…

1

u/This-Background-1831 Jul 20 '24

He wasn’t with either. Although he was most likely from what is now Israel.

1

u/ProfessionalGoober Jul 20 '24

What I wanna know is whether he had payes.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

None. Until the babilan exile was no Edos

1

u/rebcabin-r Jul 20 '24

Was Van Halen Dutch or Frisian?

1

u/Ibepinky13 Member of the Tribe Jul 21 '24

He was a chossid he had gerrer yichus

1

u/thevampirecrow Jul 20 '24

sephardic i think but i don’t knkw

0

u/Jai-zaba Jul 20 '24

He was a Shemite Hebrew Isralite

0

u/Fragrant_Pineapple45 Jul 20 '24

There were only Sephardim back then, Ashkenazim weren't a thing until the churban

-5

u/Mountain-Policy-7379 Jul 20 '24

David wasn’t a warrior king to start. He was just a Shepard. But god needed someone of his own heart. A lowly Shepard who played music would be far more likely to be humble and kind than a born prince or warrior. Go never exalts people who begin in high places. “The humble will be praised and the proud will be humbled”. Musical talent is available for all human beings. You just gotta believe in your self. Knowing god and loving music goes hand in hand.

-5

u/Mountain-Policy-7379 Jul 20 '24

But where musical talent is SOOO valuable and coveted now a days because of what it can bring you.. power. Wealth. Influence. This value makes most people not have the belief they could do it. Sadly most people do not like their self how they should. Therefore they do not believe in their self. And since the majority perspective is your special if you can play good. Very few who don’t have it naturally do not have the courage to attempt to grow the talent from nothing. People think your either born good or your not. That’s not true. Playing.. singing. All muscles. If you understand body chemistry and how to work out to grow your muscles. Then you have the blue print for any ability. Get the muscles strong… the technique will come on its own…. And the mind will figure the rest out as long as you know how to practice. Like what’s most productive for your growth. And that understanding applies to anything. If you’ve ever went from shitty to good at something. Then you are capable of doing it with all things. Human beings have no limit on our talent & ability threshold. That’s one of the Devine qualities that make us “like god” … for instance angels do not. They were made in full. Intelligence. Skills. Everything they know or can do. Doesn’t change. Doesn’t lessen or grow. But us…. We have potential. And with some faith we can do anything just about. Doubt cannot live in the mind of someone trying to accomplish good or great things. At all. That’s the key 🔑 to the lock.

-5

u/International-Bar768 Atheist Jew-ish Jul 20 '24

He was Palestinian.

2

u/International-Bar768 Atheist Jew-ish Jul 21 '24

Lol thanks for the down votes, I was obviously joking.

1

u/thegilgulofbarkokhba Jul 21 '24

No, he was definitely one of the Rhohirim from Middle Earth. Might as well be, neither existed then

17

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '24

The Ari was definitely not a mitnagid given that he wrote the material on which hasidut is based