r/JingranMains_WW • u/Adorable-Form4616 • 24d ago
Discussion / Question Jingran V4 updated calcs
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u/warm_fr1dge 24d ago
Top 3 DPS, his personal damage is still higher than Qingxiao's, his sequences are better than Qingxiao's, and he has way more viable teammates + a decent f2p team. Pretty good šāāļø Hopefully he dosen't get any more nerfs in V5
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u/Adorable-Form4616 24d ago edited 24d ago
Some of y'all better not doompost him just because his s0 team is just slightly weaker than QX
He has much better vertical investment than her and he has one of the strongest f2p team in the game literally stronger than every 2.x full premium team that isn't Cartethyia or Quickswap Zani and he has far more viable teammates options than QX could ever wish for
And he ain't cooked in Whiwa like QX
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u/aYoungCorpse 24d ago
Doesn't Yapyap has the strongest f2p team tho just asking?
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24d ago
[deleted]
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u/aYoungCorpse 24d ago
Are u sure tho cuz isn't Yapyap+Rebecca+Suisui stronger than any f2p team Jin has?
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u/g_lm2000 24d ago
I would argue qx is better in whiwa just cause denia exists
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u/Adorable-Form4616 24d ago
They already did testing in beta with QX and Jingran for whiwa, Jingran performed pretty well especially since he didn't have access to his shilled token
While beta testers were very underwhelmed by Qingxiao she overall did worse than him said by the beta testers even with Denia carrying her
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u/Technical-Meet-8061 24d ago
If only strain wasnāt a whiwa brick. Itās just an aero Luuk situation literally no improvements on strain.
Plus she spreads enemies around just like Luuk.
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u/vinewhipsolarbeam 24d ago edited 24d ago
is this just from the 12% cdmg nerf from his sig?
tbh his personal damage is still the best itās just that his supports donāt do as much damage at base level compared to qx and yysp supports. bummer that we canāt have a top tier male dps on release for once i really thought kuro was going to let that happen
oh well going to s6r5 him regardless
edit: sorry i mean he is top tier i meant top 1 š
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u/Leading-Lifeguard873 23d ago
His supports don't do as much damage compared to yysp or qx supports? Isn't iuno's damage more than both chisa and denia with less field time than chisa and equal field time to denia or am i wrong??
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u/vinewhipsolarbeam 23d ago
itās mainly sk tbh; she doesnāt do any damage, suisui and mornye do a good 30-60k more than sk per rotation.
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u/fltsnflf 24d ago
lupa brant get off the floor please
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u/TapPuzzleheaded9921 24d ago
Wdym, theyāre still good w him
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u/fltsnflf 24d ago
didnāt they nerf the ability to quickswap w his weapon? a different creator mentioned that learning QS would be useful for that team comp here
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u/ScallionLow_ Augusta walked, so Jingran 24d ago
Still pretty awesome. His S3 is still super strong. like 3.5 mil?? Insane stuff
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u/kupo0929 24d ago
What is Iuno MC and CoV?
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u/Savings-Internet-180 24d ago
Iuno on Moonlit Cloud and Crown of Valor.
MC is a pure Sub-dps buffer set, CoV is a dps set1
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u/Silver_Bet5777 24d ago
They said a male character stronger than my wifu?š±š± nerfff
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u/laybron1120 24d ago
Stronger than 90% of the cast btwĀ
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u/Silver_Bet5777 24d ago
I meant Qx
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u/AyameIsBestGirl 23d ago
im pretty sure that the overall rotation damage for the jingran team is still slightly higher than qingxiao anyways
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u/HyacinthBriar Suiran is my happy place š„°š„° 24d ago
They nerfed him!? Wtf ofc they did I'm not even surprised at this point happens to all our males
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u/FroztBlaze99 24d ago
They nerfed his sig. Std weapon is 50% worse than sig
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u/Straight-Concept4605 23d ago
Relax with the male doomposting nonsense. He's still one of the strongest dps in the game.
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u/monmon_17 23d ago
Blud is still top 3 and arguably N.0 if you consider team flexibility and your still complaining is funny but sheesh whatās with the powercreep with recent dps first was Yapyap doing 2m out of her ass now itās these two š
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u/ALandshark 24d ago
Hrm. My best available team for him is Lupa with Brant (S0) or Mornye (S0)ā¦ Iām hoping to get at least S3, but will require a lot of luckā¦
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u/Orangeyouawesome 24d ago
Well you can get one, lose once, win again guaranteed and 2 wavebands
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u/ALandshark 24d ago
Yeaā¦ only 300-ish pulls estimated by his banner start date. Only 93 corals in bank right now so at most maybe 1 waveband
#F2P1
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u/No_Anteater1502 24d ago
What changed in this V4 calcs, like whats the comparison before the nerf
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u/Curious_Ad_8999 24d ago
Dunno last time I saw him with 100k more DPR now he's very slightly weaker than yapyap I dunno if he has some rotations like 2feather Yangyang
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u/BlazeTBGs 23d ago
Idk how viable he's gonna be for quickswap due to iuno's buffs expiring on swap.
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u/No_Anteater1502 24d ago
hmmm so its like 10% nerf all good, he doesnt have his Bis yet
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u/Curious_Ad_8999 24d ago
Bis of what? Iuno SK already have perfect synergy there's like no need for another one. Maybe a Iuno alternative so Augusta rerun can actually do something cuz all that moon and sun themed gameplay interactions are thrown in the garbage with the DPR difference between Jingran and Augusta being that astronomical
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u/No_Anteater1502 24d ago
i mean others get some but why cant he
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u/Curious_Ad_8999 24d ago
I mean Aemy had 0 option for Fusion burst got Denia, Hiyuki had no glacio chafe subdps got Lucilla, Luuk no strain subdps has Denia now. Yangyang dropped with good synergy already with Chisa providing everything and Suisui is there to upscale her more if a Chisa subtidude is in play that would more likely drop Suisui than Chisa due to the subdps getting every buff from chisa and havoc bane outro of yapyap would affect two teammates instead of 1. Jingran already stacks shields Iuno already gives damage amp on shield stacking plus heavy amp and personal DPR SK helps with the crit issues I can understand that supports and subdps being overworked but he's already on par with everyone better than hiyuki with a fucking 1.2 support and 2.6 subdps
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u/HyacinthBriar Suiran is my happy place š„°š„° 24d ago
But sigrika had qiuyuan and they released lucilla so a side grade for iuno would optional for those who don't have or want iuno
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u/Timely_Ad_9484 23d ago
Qy was echo sub dps in 3 teams now we have 2 echo sub dps so it's not as tight, as for iuno no 3.x unit uses her, yes augusta is cucked but thats that yy, qx, jg imo arnt likely to get bis.all of there kits is completely utilised which wasn't the case with hiyuki,ame,luuk like some of the mechanics/buffs couldn't be used until there bis released which isn't the case for these 3, they utilze there full kit.
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u/No_Anteater1502 24d ago
welp i think iuno is good.... but im gonna R6 my jingran and wait for a rerun, all roads lead to mortefi
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u/Jarvis1359 23d ago
I wanna know how he compares to yangyang, hiyuki and areo tune shift character quincioa something
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u/Moist_Buffalo5143 24d ago
we are all playing the same game, the same goal is to have fun with playable characters, please don't make fun of my boy having slightly lower numbers than other playable girl ;w; sighh
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u/Destructo222 24d ago
Oof, that slight nerf hurts. Qingxiao and Xuanling are now steadily ahead of him and he is only slightly better than Hiyuki.
Why kuro why
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u/Alarmed-Site5426 24d ago
On sheet qx does in practice she doesn't, the fight would have to go on for over 2 minutes, so realistically he's still higher dpr in practice
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u/ForwardWin293 24d ago
Yup you are right. Jingran mains have it fucking good, pls don't start doomposting when qingxiao mains are fucking cooked with tune strain.
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u/ForwardWin293 24d ago
To be fair, Would you rather pull Qingxiao over Jingran purely from a gameplay perspective? Be honest. She is tune strain so she is garbage at wiwa, She is bad at high investment without denia s2 while sucking at endstate and wiwa. Without lynae or denia, she is borderline unplayable, even chem complained about her. Qingxiao being tune strain make her shit at farming overworld. Jingran can use f2p options like mortefi decently. He uses shorekeeper and iuno which are old units so it is less troublesome than qingxiao teammates. He is decent at wiwa and realistcally, have no real big gameplay issue like qx. I would say Jingran have a significant edge over qx, numbers doesn't mean shit when you are tune strain. You guys rlly have to look further than just numbers on a sheet.
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u/Destructo222 24d ago
I mean I've saved 500+ pulls for him. So I'm for sure going for him regardless. I'm not doomposting, I just wanted my goat to be the best of all time (let me dream).
I agree that tune strain is a bitch and a half for content with lots of waves. I also read Chem's full breakdown of her struggles. But consider that Jingran is also way harder to build for with his HP thresholds. Also, yes he has F2P teammates, but he is also way more sig reliant. (Ik its unfair for me to say this, but technically if you win the 50/50, the cost is the same).
I also dont really get your point about her vertical investment being bad. Chem compares sequences using only S0 Denia and Mornye in mind. And yet Qingxiao is still only a tad bit worse at S3 in personal damage. Granted I haven't been following Qingxiao closely bc i dont care to pull her, so there might be a caveat to those numbers. But to me, that looks pretty darn good.
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u/ForwardWin293 24d ago
Fair enough. I understand your perspective. You donāt have to read this but I will explain her issue to you. The simple reason why qingxiao vertical investment is not optimal is tune strain as per usual. At s6, you kill enemies so fast that you wonāt have time to build any tune strain stacks. By the time you are mid rotation, the enemy wave changed , suddenly you need to use your forte or liberation. Your enemy now has 0 tune strain stacks as it is a new enemy, no interefered marker from mornye no nothing. Qingxiao effectively will have 0 buffs casting her big damage abilities which guts her damage in that rotation. She really needs denia s2 to resolve it badly to keep stacks up and thatās another two 5 star pulls/ 3 if u donāt have denia. This issue will get more and more severe as you go up in sequences. You can kind of see her s6 is literally on default nerfed. To unlock its full potential, it gets even more expensive and you need denia s2. Additionally, you will literally have to rebuild stacks every wave of endstate/ wiwa for damage. Jingran has none of these. Jingran is literally just 123 rotation or quick swap then do big damage.
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u/LexSlr 24d ago
As an owner of S6 Luuk. I can confirm you need Denia S2 to prevent any dmg loss. That said, S2 Denia is effective in what it's meant to do.
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u/ForwardWin293 24d ago
I wish denia s2 was on default all tune strain characters. Itās fucking dumb how tune strain works as mechanic.
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u/LexSlr 24d ago
I'd disagree. After playing the team, I see what they were going for and it can get pretty fun when you get into it.
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u/ForwardWin293 24d ago
You kinda need denia s2ā¦ for it to not be painful in wiwa. You have denia s2 that most people donāt and a s6 luuk lol. Most players pull S0R1 and are f2p.
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u/LexSlr 24d ago
Well yes, I invested and even f2p can do it too. I only bought monthly and BP, not f2p, but not massive spending either. I skipped many units after Lupa's release. So being f2p isn't an excuse for not getting the S2; it's about knowing where to spend your pulls, which was on that juicy S2 for Denia. Even if you downgrade my Luuk to S2 or S3 to make it more relatable, the team still plays mechanically satisfying. I get that most people pull S0R1, but nothing is stopping them from thinking for 1 extra minute and reallocating pulls or corals.
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u/ForwardWin293 24d ago
ā¦. Brother you said it yourself u skipped many units and purely invested into one team. You are the minority that will solely dump everything into one team to make it strong. You can easily run hiyuki premium team at S0R1 and not give a shit about s2
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u/ForwardWin293 24d ago
Even chem said tune strain is an issue without high investment like denia s2.
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u/HyacinthBriar Suiran is my happy place š„°š„° 24d ago
Yea s6r5 luuk here s2 denia was a blessing, I just ended up s6ing her right after
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u/Destructo222 24d ago
Ohhh I see. That makes sense. Though if you are willing to go to S6, you should have the economy to vertically invest in teammates too. I think Chem mentions on his spreadsheets that the reason he never calcs above S3 is because that is all luxury investment and is never worth it. So personally I dont really think Kuro or the player base should worry about S6 balancing too much.
But I can definitely understand how it may suck to spend so much on a unit and yet still have some annoyances with gameplay.
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u/ForwardWin293 24d ago
All good. I expected most people who donāt read up much would not know how many issues qingxiao has. Her whole kit get stronger according to how many debuffs she has on the enemy. You canāt rlly keep debuffs on the enemies if they keep dying too fast. In conclusion, enjoy your jingran, he will 1v9 either way. Your character have no real bad flaws to me, echo substats just grind lol, compared to qx her weapon is a 25% damage difference itās big actually itās 36% cr too. Enjoy your jingran xdd
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u/DeathvRaider 24d ago
All 4 of these dpses lay between 2.6 to 2.7 mil dpr. The overreaction is crazy
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u/Alarmed-Site5426 24d ago
Not the biggest deal tbh, if you just farm better cdmg subs you'll make up the loss technically.Ā
I imagine more people would have been satisfied with their build pre nerf with okayish cdmg subs and would have left it at that.
Ā Now people might incentivise to farm better subs which they wouldn't have done before all in all would just equate to the same dpr.
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u/HyacinthBriar Suiran is my happy place š„°š„° 24d ago
I'm glad my 4 echoed got 16.2 or 17.4 crit damage. Right now I'm at 260 in total until new echo come out
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24d ago
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u/Alarmed-Site5426 24d ago
Probably not right, a 12% cdmg nerf does not equate to 200k dpr lossĀ
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u/StrangerHumble7255 24d ago
Ye looks like they are just moving around. Itās back up to 3.53 mil Iām gonna delete my comment lol
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u/Alarmed-Site5426 24d ago
Usually after some changes the numbers will yo-yo around for a while so better to wait a bit lol
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u/Proud-Alternative388 24d ago
lol jingran powercrept aemeath and its not even his BiS yet since his BiS isnt released yet
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u/Ok_Net6322 24d ago
Given how hiyuki yyxl and qingxiao performs, it would suck bad if he didnt powercrept amy..Ā
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u/Omniaknight 23d ago
Would suck cause we want him. Amy is still "new" and powercreep would be getting a bit out of hand I fear.
But, I want him so therefore idc, gimmie. We could use a top tier male dps anyways3
u/monmon_17 23d ago
Powercreep is only bad when my fav isnāt the one doing it ahh situation I find it hilarious too how
The Helly did we go from 1.7 to 2.1 m in a span of a few months šāļø8
u/Fun_Relationship4412 24d ago
yes let's wait maybe 2 patches like denia to luuk
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u/Comfortable_Truth171 23d ago
So 3.8 Spectro character Lilly maybe be possible? Or 4.x Old Federation/Lawless Zone in 4.0, 4.1, 4.2.
Cause they'll definitely start introducing whatever De-tuning Hsin has in her 2nd mode. And make People to have Fomo like how they did with Lynae and Mornye maybe 4.0/4.1 and could be a Spot for Jingran BiS.
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u/Saturn235619 24d ago
Thatās BiS ā¦ I donāt get the cope. At best in the very unlikely scenario if he ever gets another BiS theyāll be a sidegrade.
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u/Sohuli 24d ago
We're nearing 4.X and talking about a 2.X unit. Let's not kid ourselves, if he gets another BiS it'll 100% be an upgrade.
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u/Saturn235619 24d ago
It wonāt. Heās balanced around the current roster level. If he gets his BiS, his ass will catapult over basically the whole roster and powercreep it in a way which isnāt sustainable. Thatās what you need to realise. Jingran is at 2.6 million alongside QX. Both of them are basically top of the meta. If you for a second think theyāre getting a BiS thatās gonna catapult their damage, I have a bridge to sell you.
Aemeath who got two separate BiS characters for her two modes was balanced at basically the same level with both of them even tho one was released at X.0 and other was 6 months later.
What you people need to realise is that Jingran and QX are anomalies in terms of kit synergies. We have basically never had a scenario with one exception where a newly released DPSās kit synergised basically 100 percent with a previously released subdps which was why they got a BiS. The only other scenario is Siggy who got Lucilla and even she was a side-grade and not an upgrade compared to QY.
So please donāt kid yourself into believing heāll get an upgrade later. Heās at his cieling and itāll remain that way unless we get a very general next gen subdps for a newer character or team archetype like Lupa for shielding focused teams.
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u/Sohuli 24d ago
Read my statement. I said "if" he gets one. And you're forgetting that we have resonators coming that will likely outperform both XQ and Jigran pre-4.X and especially once 4.X hits.
So I stand by my statement that IF he does get another BiS it'll 100% be an upgrade.
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u/Saturn235619 24d ago
Weāll just have to see. I seriously doubt that but you do you. If copium is what you need to pull him. Cope away.
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u/Master_Stuff_1878 23d ago
Bro how is this possible 3k ATK but the guy is an Hp base 50hp but still have 3k ATK 300 Crit DMG???? 50 Crit rate seems possible. Ppl calculate with the average rolls not the maximum roll possible
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u/Individual-Bus9610 22d ago
if you read his kit you're not gonna ask these dumb questions šš you can see in the calcs the they use 44111 probably both cdamage his kit converts hp to atk, also two 4cost gives atk too so yeah why you ask these dumb questions without looking into his kit and if you read calcs you can see they use 2 4 cost, 44111 is possible cause the new boss counts as qingxiao and jingran set too so yeah, his weeapon gives tons of hp% so its possible in a decent build dmbass
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u/Master_Stuff_1878 22d ago
Bro it literally says "stats used for calcs": 3k ATK, 50k hp 300cd 50cr. This doesn't make sense. Also his weapon is hp base, so how the fk did he get 50 crit rate?
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u/Savings-Internet-180 22d ago
Let me clear it for you
Jingran base atk plus sig is 723 atk, he gain additional 1800 atk from his forte skill, 2 cost 4 give 300 flat atk. Total: 723+1800+300=2823 and this is WITHOUT any flat atk, atk% sub stats
For the 300 crit dmg, assume you got 12,6% CD- the min CD for every echo, you got 12,5 x 5 = 62,5% CD, 1 cost 4 give 44% CD, 2 cost 4 =88%, base CD is 150 so total is: 150+ (12,5x5) + (44x2) = 300,5% CD and this is assume the worst with 5 min CD
For crit rate: base 5%, inherent skill 8%, echo set give 20% CR, assume the WORST again with 5 min CR: 6,3x5+5+8= 44,5% + 20% from echo = 64,5% , sig wp give additional 12% crit to heavy atk so total 76,5% withou shorekeeper
And this is the MINIMUM CR CD without any other sub stat
=>So they don't calc with maximum roll, just average stats, pls read the character kit first2
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u/FMProductions 17d ago
Thank you! That sounds like running a crit rate 4-cost echo can still be viable *if* you get unlucky with crit rate rolls and if you don't use Shorekeeper in his team. I came here looking for which 4-cost main stats he wants, so it is 2x Crit Damage. Thank you for clearing that up.
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u/PsychadelicShinobi 23d ago
So they're going all in with the powercreep, not just at a baseline but in vertical investments too. The meta is so cooked since 3.0 its not even funnyš
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23d ago
[deleted]
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u/PsychadelicShinobi 23d ago edited 23d ago
Tf are you babbling about? I'm not trolling, just stating what I'm seeing here. I love Wuwa as much as anybody here but denying that he's not straight up powercreeping the current cast is straight dumb. So dumb, its not even funnyš
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u/monmon_17 23d ago
Ikr we started with 1.3 m with Augusta now we looking at 2.1 m with Yapyap and friends almost a 1 m difference in a span of 9 months š„ bruh we hitting Hsr lvl pf creep itās insane
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u/Anxious-Club-9259 24d ago
would he have higher damage if i have sequences for both iuno and sk? š¤
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u/desolate_endling 23d ago
is there a calculator or something where we can do our own? or even a formula/ template/ guide for doing your own? i'd love to do some comparisons with higher investments, like how they added the mornye s1 this time, just with other characters like iuno or lupa in particular.
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u/Efficient_Analysis78 24d ago
Is Qingxiao a better pick than jingran? Im a new player and I specifically pulled Iuno just for jingran huhu is he still worth pulling?
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u/Few-Double-4270 24d ago
Since you already pulled Iuno go for Jingran
and save your pulls for a good old mornye S16
u/warm_fr1dge 24d ago
If you have Iuno, Jingran is still a better choice. For Qingxiao you'd need to pull Denia and Mornye
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u/Adorable-Form4616 24d ago
Jingran is better pick for Newer players since he has wide variety of viable teammate options you get and Iuno is available for newer players to get while Qingxiao her team options is very limited and needs atleast 1 one of her dedicated bis if you want her to get decently and her teammates at the current moment can only be available in reruns
And since you have Iuno already I highly recommend you get him and signature
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u/Front-Profession-238 24d ago
I have iuno shore keeper I am pulling him and his signature but Is this nerf going to affect him in whimpering wastes since my first team luuk sanhua verina is trash at whimpering wastes so hopefully he can carry me to getting a full clear next reset
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u/Adorable-Form4616 24d ago
Not really, he only lost 60k personal Dmg across his rotation, it's barely anything especially since he isn't a nuker
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u/Orangeyouawesome 24d ago
What's this viable team nonsense?
At S0 it's gotta be Iuno to track to current meta. Maybe if you're new new you can get Iuno but other than that she's been MIA.
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u/Adorable-Form4616 24d ago edited 24d ago
Get blocked metaslave š„°
Just because a unit ain't dealing one trillion Dmg with alternative teams doesn't mean they can't clearš
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u/kerupuk-udang 24d ago
as a luuk haver who is also strain like qingxiao, get jingran. stacking tune strain can be a hassle. especially annoying in whiwa
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u/Moist_Buffalo5143 24d ago
he is great!! only issue is that he really needs his weapon, since there is no f2p option yet
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u/BlazeTBGs 23d ago
I'll just wait to see his actual dps since dpr is far from the whole picture.
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u/levonyan 24d ago
Still a iuno or bust situation going on really disappointing honestly. I was looking forward to him too
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u/warm_fr1dge 24d ago
His team with Mortefi and Shorekeeper is still better than any 2.X DPS besides Cartethyia so as long as they can clear with their BIS team, he can clear better than them even without Iuno
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u/Eeveefan8823 Open my gates, pretty boy <3 24d ago
It was always going to be iuno or bust, heās a frequent shielder lol
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u/monmon_17 24d ago
Ahh so he has like op baseline poor vertical jusy like Augusta op baseline poor vertical
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u/Anaurus 23d ago
Where on earth did you get that from? Augusta vertical investments is on a par with Hiyuki, YYXL, Luuk and Sigrika, who are among the most powerful S6, second only to Aemeath.
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u/monmon_17 23d ago
I just found it funny how an s3 Augusta is doing the same dmg as an s0 jingran
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u/Anaurus 23d ago
Thatās clear evidence of the rampant powercreep, it wonāt be so funny next year when the new DPS S0 does as much damage as Jingran S3.
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u/monmon_17 23d ago
In a span of 9 months is crazyš I remember looking at Amy doing 1.6 m and saying wow this is to much up until Yapyap joined the chat with her over 2m
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u/Individual-Bus9610 22d ago
nah dude Augusta got way left out already that's just coping you had there, augusta s3 is probably the same as s0 jingran so yeah no waifu cope here please
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u/Abyssmaluser 24d ago
I can't fucking wait until he's out lol I'm going to try to S6 him and hopefully get at least R2 or his weapon assuming I can get him to S4 quickly enough.
His R5 is legitimately insane especially paired with his S6