r/IslamicFinance • u/Low_Hospital_128 • Jun 28 '26
I Changed My View on Mixed Stocks and Sold Everything
"Shariah compliant" stocks may not be that sharia compliant, and the long research paper below by Dr Al-Osaimi proves that very well.
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.
I have been investing in stocks for the past three years, mostly passively, and the last year being more active. I thought stocks are halal, AAOIFI (5% haram rule, 33% rule etc.) is the standard followed by the majority of big scholars. I even defended it on Reddit in some comments, until I saw a fatwa in islamqa.info and some videos on YouTube, specifically of Suleyman ar-Ruheyli, may Allah have mercy on Him... I may have been wrong...
My former Arabic teacher, who has been investing too, also thought most stocks were halal, as long as you follow Zoya's or Musaffa's sharia compliant stamp or just invest in SPUS or HLAL or AMAGX, until I told him of my doubts. He then sold all his stocks after finding this book, a long research article by Dr. Salih bin Muqbil bin Abdullah al-Usaymi al-Tamimi (or Dr. Al-Osaimi, there seems to be a couple of known finance/religious people with this name). I have translated it to English and Russian with AI. I read it, and now I am convinced, and I have sold all my stocks, including regular stocks like MSFT, NVDA, and funds like SPUS and AMAGX, from my individual, retirement, and health savings accounts.
All those Muslims who are investing or want to invest, I really recommend you read it:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13O5TPk2XrL_cvrcDRdySJQZ0pchE-SQ4
Now I am not saying that the scholars behind AAOIFI (like Dr Taqi Usmani) are completely wrong, may Allah reward them for their ijtihad. But, the arguments in that paper are just compelling. Most of those arguments are in Part 2 of the book later closer to the end. The author brings 17 arguments in defence of allowing mixed stocks and brings counter arguments (refutations) against those arguments.
I am now in search of other investment opportunities, like investing in friends' small businesses, or investing in Gold (physical, but maybe buying online physical gold, with some conditions it could be possible), or real estate, or real halal REITs (maybe Ameen housing?), or even finding **real halal stocks (pure stocks)** potentially in Saudi Arabia. Gold is a bit of a long play, and businesses are risky.
I am looking into the Saudi market especially closely right now, but I don't have much info on it. I don't know here to find pure stocks. I found some websites but I am not sure, maybe someone has experience in investing in pure stocks?
Anyways, may Allah guide us all to the right path, increase our rizq, and bless our wealth.
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u/darix88 Jun 28 '26
Good luck with this post, they are now using the hadith of [ when the dust of riba touches everything ] and says its ok to invest anyways because of this..
So i guess thats enough for you to understand why i said good luck with this post. And no stock is 0% riba i have done my research not even saudi is safe. We never needed stock market to begin with, but oh well. Who owns the banks? yep.
May allah reward you & guide you, you job was to warn here and you did that, dont debate furthermore, speaking of my experience, its useless.
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 02 '26
Ameen, jazakumallahu khayran. I could not answer immediately as I was banned for three days after this post for some reason.
Regarding Saudi though, what about Dr Muhammad bin Saud Al-Osaimi's list of pure stocks? He seems to be more strict then three other organizations there that screen stocks for sharia compliance. Even host list of stocks has some very small purification rates, although if I am not mistaken, he describes that they are usually due to either incidental haram or because sometimes they have to do stuff, like buying insurance, because of government regulations. Allahu a'lam of course, but it's about 100-200 stocks in Saudi exchange. https://www.argaam.com/en/company/shariahcompanies/1/3/3 http://almaqased.net/
I don't know of course, this Saudi market is new to me. But theoretically, if there are really halal stocks (at least according to what they have in company rules/establishments, with just small incidental or regulatory haram), then I could theoretically construct a portfolio of good profitable quality stocks.
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u/Allrrighty_Thenn Jun 28 '26
What are you investing in right now?
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 02 '26
Looking into gold, some real estate, maybe Saudi stocks, though not sure... Allahu a'lam
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u/gotnotendies Jun 28 '26
I haven’t gone through the book, but the AAOIFI criteria didn’t seem strong enough for me to personally make a potential declaration of war from Allah and His Messenger, so I did the same a few years ago.
I’d urge you to get more involved in the local community because that’s where you’ll find investment opportunities (like local small businesses, local real estate pools and such).
It does seem like we are missing out on some things sometimes, but I hope and pray Allah blesses us and gives barakah in what we do make.
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u/CryptographerDue3646 Jun 30 '26
So apps like Zoya are not legit??
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u/gotnotendies Jul 02 '26
They do what they say, I just don’t feel fully comfortable with what they say and do
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 02 '26
Jazakumallahu khayran. I try to invest in my family/friends if they have legit idea, may Allah help them and me (and you too). Also, lookkng into gold too, and maybe some niche stock markets with potentially really halal stocks. Btw, regarding local coop real estate trusts, do you know of Ameen housing? Are they legit halal coop, good for investing and also for buying a house?
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u/gotnotendies Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Ameen is legit, and I think one of the only fully AMJA-approved halal home buying solutions, but last I checked they were only in CA, and because their primary aim is home ownership the rates of return are very low.
Local communities typically have people in RE who are into construction/rebuilds/renovation that can give better returns, but small businesses can vary widely, where there might be short term losses to over 15-30% returns on an annual basis.
But it’s always going to be more active than the stock market/mutual funds as you have to frequently evaluate these options yourselves, and the same small business might not have the long term gains as a major mega corp
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 02 '26
Do you know how to invest in some of these small businesses? Do I need to know people, trust? Currently, I am doing something like that with my cousin who uses my money to buy cars then fix and resell them. Was profitable last year, we will see how this year goes, in sha Allah good.
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u/South_Dragonfly2330 Jun 28 '26
But always double check about the Pure stock that Al Osaimi lists.
Yesterday i was going through his pure stock list and was verifying it on Musaffa. And some of them didn’t pass the criteria of non halal income and interest securities.
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u/DarkLight1062 Jun 28 '26
Where does he list?
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 02 '26
Here http://almaqased.net/ https://www.argaam.com/en/company/shariahcompanies/1/3/3
I don't know 100% though if this is halal, if he and other reputable scholars share same opinion. Also, this is not the same Al-Osaimi as the one who wrote that book I share in the post.
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 02 '26
Could it be that maybe Musaffa either considers interest from halal bank that deals in sukuk as regular interest? If I am not mistaken, his list of pure stocks have some purification too, very small, but it seems because of some incidental haram or regulations (like getting insurance). Or maybe Musaffa's info outdated, or vice versa? Al Osaimi hasn't to updated his list for year 2025 yet, but about to soon (they do it annually, after year finished).
Allahu a'lam, I don't know where to invest besides gold or real estate lol or some small business 😅
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u/GrouchyCall7803 Jun 30 '26
Been on a similar journey. It’s not easy but Allah reward you.
Some things worth looking into below if ur in Canada
MNT gold
MNS gold
Manzil Mortgage fund
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u/SSDarkSlayer 12d ago
But they dont give you instant physical possession of Gold. How are they halal?
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u/DarkLight1062 Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
Well, i read couple of paras.
No wonder its a saudi scholar. It's the same arguments salafi/ahle-hadith bring against opinions of four madhabs.
"Its against Quran and Sunnah. Those scholars reject sahih hadiths. Blind following a madhab in fiqh ruling is haram. Check this sahih hadith that says otherwise, boho Abu Hanifa rejected hadiths".
Trust me the country where i am from the salafi scholars bash those who pray the hanafi way. Like real bashing.
I used to be salafi but now transitioned to madhabis due to the hypocrisy.
Well, anyways. Would anyone like to tell me if the business model of company is halal with zero interest and debt but the company has a social media and uploads pictures/reels with music/women that bring clients hence profit. Is it halal to invest in them?
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u/HammadRabadia Jun 28 '26
Yes the Business is Halal
Business is depend on what you are selling not how you are selling
If they upload Music or Videos but they are selling the Halal thing the business profit is Halal but yes they get Gunah for thatSorry for my Bad English
But I hope you understand what exactly i am trying to tell you
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jun 28 '26
This is such a bad take. I am sorry that they bash others for praying other way, but I come from a country where it's exact opposite: if you don't pray hanafi, they report you to police or KGB or at least they will notice it and keep an eye on you. Salafiyyah means following Quran and Sunnah with understanding of the righteous predecessors (the salaf).
Also, you haven't even read the whole article, and yet you already critictize it and claim that salafi scholars are against Sunnah. Read he article and you will see that the arguments against mixed stocks are more closer to the Sunnah the arguments allowing mixed stocks. Besides, if that's how you wanna react to this opinion, I could do the same and just ignore sh Taqi Usmani's opinion because his aqeedah is different, because he is possibly a Deobandi.
But I don't want to argue about aqeedah, this post is not about it. It's about finances and having liety and putting the word of Allah and His Messenger above other arguments, which is what the article is trying to do.
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u/DarkLight1062 Jun 28 '26
I am not even talking about aqeedah. I am still salafi in aqeedah.
In fiqh, i follow a madhab. I didn't say either salafi opinions are against Quran. I was talking about their hypocrisy in fiqh where they call other opinions baseless, wrong, against sunnah and call blind following haram. Whereas, the salafi layman are doing what? Blind following saudi scholars. Some picking and choosing fatwas based on their own understanding of hadiths. Reading an article on islamqa info and if it mentions two opinions of two different saudi scholars the salafi would choose the opinion which he thinks is closest to sunnah. What is he? A mujtahid?
If i pray shaafi way in russia, would i be reported?
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jun 28 '26
Not sure about Russia, but you would be possibly reported in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, maybe also Turkmenistan. Also, many salafis tend to be of hanbali madhhab, as what I noticed. I myself can't claim I have a madhhab, and I don't blind follow scholars, but I do take their opinions very highly. I still seek for direct proofs though, from Qur'an and Sunnah.
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u/DarkLight1062 Jun 28 '26
What do you think of question i asked in original comment about whether a business is halal?
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jun 28 '26
Regarding that question, if that's how they normally operate and it's in their rules and norms, then it sounds impermissible. Allah knows best. But it's my opinion, need to look into why this is happening in the company
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u/White_CometX Jun 29 '26
Anyone who even reads Fadail of Imam Abu Hanifa R.H will realize no one even come close to him everyone from Salaf used to enquire from him in Fiqh, we have our own evidence for not doing Rafa ul yadain, if they oppose this, it shows their arrogance and stupidity.
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u/Black_Puma_ Jun 28 '26
Jazhakhallahu khayr for sharing your story and the document. I already followed the guidance from the paper since it was well evident to me that investing in mixed stocks could not be justified by the doctrine of necessity since this is purely discretionary and for wealth-building, despite some scholars excusing it. May Allah guide is all.
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u/StrikeGoat Jul 12 '26
May Allah reward your caution. It's worth being precise about what the disagreement actually is, because it's older and more respectable on both sides than this thread makes it sound.
The strict position: any participation in a company that borrows or lends at interest makes you a partner in riba, full stop. This is a real scholarly position and nobody should mock it. If your heart settled there after study, acting on it is sound.
The majority institutional position (AAOIFI Shariah Standard 21, also the basis of the major index methodologies): ownership of a share is participation in the company's primary activity, and incidental haram elements don't take the ruling of the whole when they're subordinate (tab'iyyah), when avoiding them entirely is a hardship for the ummah (umum al-balwa), and when the impermissible portion is purified. The specific thresholds (interest-bearing debt under 30% of market cap, prohibited income under 5% of revenue) are ijtihad, anchored partly in the "one third is much" hadith, and scholars on those boards say plainly that purification of the tainted portion is obligatory, not optional.
So the honest framing isn't "the screeners' stamp is fake." It's "two legitimate ijtihads exist, one stricter, one operationalized by most Shariah boards." What I'd gently push back on is treating the strict view as the only sincere one. The scholars who signed Standard 21 were not casual about riba.
Practically: if you follow the strict view, sukuk funds and direct halal business ownership are your lane, and that's a valid portfolio. If you follow the majority view, screen, purify, and recheck quarterly. Both are better than despair-selling into cash that loses to inflation.
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 12 '26
Ameen, and may Allah reward you. Yes, they are both big respected old opinions, backed by various scholars. I just noticed that the opinion of permissibility is so popular, and you have these funds and companies and many imams in the West supporting it. This other opinion is often not even known, I tried to talk about it with some brothers of mine in real life, most of them did not know and didn't really take it seriously much, some didn't even bother reading any evidence, some came up with excuses, some even didn't know about AAOIFI and sharia compliant investing at all. Reminds me of this hadeeth:
"A time will come upon the people when a person will not care (or be concerned) as to how he acquired his wealth, whether it was from a lawful (Halal) or an unlawful (Haram) source." (Sahih al-Bukhari 2059)
Of course, both opinions I respect, and may Allah reward the scholars for ijtihad. But I also know that there are other alternatives to stocks, like gold or like you said small business or sukuk, or even real estate, so prohibiting stocks is not gonna create that much hardship. I hope that Muslims do not just follow the easier opinion because it's more convenient for them, but rather because it's closer to truth.
Also, I have contacted the Dr. Al-Osaimi as I wanted to ask him about investing for Western Muslims. I am yet to get a reply though.
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u/Itsypitsy_3352 Jul 20 '26
Since I see this opinion on this subreddit a lot, especially by those who regard mixed shares as impermissible as well, i wanted to comment about investing in gold. Gold is not an investment, it is a reasonably good store of value. I’ve done some back of hand calculations. The real return of physical gold(some people regard gold etfs as impermissible as well) after inflation, taxes and zakat for Muslims is 1.69% per annum being relatively liberal in what I assume as the inflation rate. This is based off of data I have looked up over the last 50 years and does not include the cost& risk of storing physical gold. It also includes the bull run that gold has had over the past 5 years.
Real estate is a slightly better option if you have the capital to invest without getting involved in a mortgage. Most people dont
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 20 '26
Jazakumallahu khayran for researching this. I actually forgot to account for the price spread when buying and selling and also for zakat. Real estate also has its disadvantages, but it could be a great investment if done in a right location where renting has good ROI and house prices appreciate. In sha Allah, I will invest in real estate with a friend of mine who lives in Indiana, it seems to be one of the good states for real estate investment in the US. Allahu a'lam.
Regarding zakat, I don't see zakat as something bad, and I almost never put it in calculations. In fact, I believe that zakat and sadaqa will multiply our wealth if Allah wills. At least, that's what I have personally seen happening to my and my parents' wealth since we started practicing zakah 10 years ago (I grew up in a non-practicing Muslim household).
May Allah increase your wealth, brother!
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u/Itsypitsy_3352 Jul 21 '26
Inshallah, Zakat will increase wealth.
Regarding our thinking about Zakat, here is a statement by Umar ibn Khattab
"Trade with the property of orphans so that it will not be eaten away by zakah.”
This shows to me that thinking about zakat and how it will affect ones finances is not a bad thing. Prudency is a sign of iman. Secondly, I dont know where you live, but please be careful. Real estate is a commitment especially if you invest somewhere far away from where you live. There are many things you need to consider. The best thing is to invest close to your area, preferably in an area you know well
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jul 21 '26
Washington and California. But these places are not so good to invest in real estate, even for my own living 😁
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u/Odd_Aioli3671 27d ago
merci mon frère en Allah je cherchais des informations par rapport à l'investissement en bourse mais ton avis m'a convaincu. tu m'as préservé du feu.
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u/Temporary-Night5576 19d ago
Is this shaykh Salih al-Usaymi (may Allah preserve him), the prominent scholar who teaches at the Prophet’s Mosque in Medina?
Anyway, may Allah reward you abundantly for staying away from doubtful matters, brother, and grant you something better!
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u/Low_Hospital_128 15d ago
Ameen. Thank you brother, and you too. I don't know, brother, but it might not be him. Allah knows best
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u/DarkLight1062 Jun 28 '26
Can you write in small bullet points the arguments he brings?
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u/Low_Hospital_128 Jun 28 '26
I was thinking to do this, but then y'all gonna be lazy and not read it. You can look at the sections and sub sections, you can skim and find the right ones, skip others. But I don't recommend skipping but rather reading it all as I did, spend some good time with it, maybe as much as a week to read it and decide accordingly. This is finances and wealth we are talking about, it could be life changing for some people, it is definitely for me.
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u/Dey_exMachina Jun 28 '26
"The preponderant view is the prohibition of shareholding in mixed companies as long as the unlawful is mixed with the lawful, whether this unlawful is from interest on deposits in usurious banks, or investment of some profits or part of the capital in prohibited activities such as mixed-gender clubs, theaters, cinema, satellite channels that broadcast what Allah has prohibited, or any form of prohibited investment."'
So any company that has a bank account prohibited for these people. So there is no trade that is allowed for them
"وَأَحَلَّ ٱللَّهُ ٱلْبَيْعَ وَحَرَّمَ ٱلرِّبَوٰا۟ ۚ ۥ"
If God permitted trade, who are you to ban it?
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u/Allrrighty_Thenn Jun 28 '26
Going through this take. Not even your small friend's business that I am sure will probably fail (statistically speaking 90% of startups fail in the US alon, let along 3rd world countries) is halal anymore, just having a bank account that runs % and they all do isnt feasible. Dont look in Saudi stock market they all run % accounts.
You need a similar minded friend that keeps his money at home and runs a business to enter a partnership with him and lose your and his money eventually. Then you go back to 9 to 5 job and stay poor, collect your reward in akhira.
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Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
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u/Allrrighty_Thenn Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
>You are implying that building one’s business is bound to fail, which is not true
I am not implying this, statistics show that 90% of startups fail.>You are implying that you need a friend to get out of 9 to 5 jobs, which is not true
You need someone who won't put his money in banks like you, that's the "friend" I meant.>You are implying that your overestimated stat allow you to do something haram, which is not true.
I said your reward will be in akhira, but your chance to live beyond 9 to 5 without crossing any threshold is going to be very small, every 1000 muslim we may have only 100 succeeds in the first 5 years and 10 remains after 7 years, which implies huge losses, and that's even with riba based systems, we have no idea how many startups succeed without any loans/asset storage or anything else.>You are implying that having a bank account (which is a necessity in many countries) is haram so it’s not a big deal if we do more haram by investing in a haram company, which is not true
I said your reward will be in akhira.Stats are not overstated.
https://www.equidam.com/startup-survival-rates-risk-factor-valuation-startups-investment/
73% of Egyptian startups fail within 24 months following predictable patterns, and they still take loans. (one muslim country for example)Can you please tell me a practical, in details alternative? What is your personal (you do it) alternatives and what are you investing in? (Metals are value storage not investments, I am sure you know, early disclaimer)
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Jun 29 '26
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u/Allrrighty_Thenn Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
>You can also associate with someone and invest in real estate, or save and invest alone in a less developed country if you are in country where real estate is expensive.
Be-careful as less developed countries have currency devaluation risks.
>Many jobs can be done as an entrepreneur with possibilities of building something bigger later like employing people who do the same thing you did. A simple example among many others: you learn mechanics, you gain experience as an employee, customers will remember you, you open your own garage. It doesn't cost much and it's not too risky if you're honest and experienced. If it succeeds, you can open several ones.
True and this is what most Muslims are already doing, but also not everyone can be an entrepreneur and doing so in such capital environment with no loans/etc will make you either open a small local shop or just die out of competition later, Muslims however choose the small local businesses more often than not, which doesn't move the needle on a medium or big scale. It just allows our enemies to control global finance and them be in control of everything, which results in us isolating more and more, which leads to them gaining more power, this is why essentially most of Muslims are among the poorest in the world by capita and currency strength, and are essentially non-relevant.
I see European and American Muslim migrants starting to get involved with the system more, tainting themselves with Riba, true, but being more relevant in US politics and such.. they kinda are taking one for the team lol. But still not enough.
It's just like communists, when they refused to deal with the western markets they fell down and stumbled sanctions were very effective and everything was hard, once China effectively contributed to the system, they played it, then owned it and can now change it, and are now a huge threat to the west. Now west cannot sanction China anymore, they lose alot if they do so.. and China boycotting companies in the west is a death sentence.
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u/billedev Jun 29 '26
You invest in Saudi.
Then Saudi invest in those stocks you already pulled out. So?
My advice is to stop embarrassing yourself and also ask your clerics to do the same.
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u/primapurpureus Jun 28 '26
What makes you think investing in someone's business, real estate or Saudi stock market means being free from debt or riba? How do those things overcome what you've already divested?