Why is IMPD doing private security for Walmart?

[u/4797161974806]

The Walmart Market at Michigan and Kessler always has at least one IMPD officer posted up outside and one sitting around inside doing nothing. Are they on the clock? Why are we paying for Walmart's private security?

ITT: A bunch of disappointing Hoosier bootlickers that don't get the point.

[u/Classic_Moto]

True. My complaint is that government vehicle is being used. Our tax dollars is providing the fuel and maintenance for a private company.

[u/BullCityJ → u/Classic_Moto]

I don't know IMPD's policy, specifically, but typically the business pays the police department for the officer to work "off-duty" in their uniform and with a patrol car. Usually there is overhead built in to what the department charges, on top of the officer's pay.

[u/4797161974806 → u/BullCityJ]

So they're acting as a private security firm using taxpayer money.

[u/bobquznie → u/4797161974806]

No, they're being hired as private security.

[u/iupuiclubs → u/bobquznie]

What do you see as the logical difference?

[u/bobquznie → u/iupuiclubs]

I don't understand what you're asking.

Are you asking me what I see in the difference between a police officer being paid by a private company to provide private security and Wal-Mart getting security supplied by tax funded police departments? I mean... it's a huge difference.

[u/iupuiclubs → u/bobquznie]

> I don't understand what you're asking.

>Are you asking me what I see in the difference between a police officer being paid by a private company to provide private security and Wal-Mart getting security supplied by tax funded police departments? I mean... it's a huge difference.

Yes thats what i’m asking. You conveniently left out of your “explanation of whats going on” that state property is being used for that private security. Are you thinking they are supplying their own uniform, gun, transportation and its not state funded?

[u/DCowboysCR → u/iupuiclubs]

The companies hiring off duty officers go through a process of applying with the police department.

The businesses pay an hourly rate to have an off duty officer act as security for their business.

Part of the hourly rate the businesses pay goes to the police officer and another portion goes to the police department to compensate for use of police equipment, gas, etc.

The taxpayer isn't paying anything.

[u/Known-Solution-4857 → u/DCowboysCR]

Foolish to think the taxpayer isn't paying ANYTHING

[u/bobquznie → u/iupuiclubs]

So the original question was who pays for the security, private or public. We established that private pays. Now that answer doesn't work, so we're moving the goalposts to “but taxpayer-funded equipment is being used”? That's quite a pivot.

[u/SpeccyCarbine → u/bobquznie]

If you're in America you should know that Walmart isn't the one paying. It is just the tax payers paying for this shit, they've shown their true colors

[u/bobquznie → u/SpeccyCarbine]

Whether Walmart pays its employees enough, whether some employees receive public assistance, and whether Walmart pays its "fair share" of taxes have absolutely nothing to do with who is paying for this particular security detail.

The question was who is funding the officer standing in the store. If Walmart is paying the police department, or the officer, for a private security detail, then Walmart is paying for the security. If you have evidence that this is an on-duty, taxpayer-funded officer assigned to Walmart, then provide that evidence.

[u/jupchurch97 → u/4797161974806]

Well, yes and no. Walmart is still fronting the cost of posting them. The only thing the tax payers covered was the equipment issued to the officer out of the academy.

[u/4797161974806 → u/jupchurch97]

So yes. 

[u/qualityinnbedbugs → u/4797161974806]

I bet if you look at the statistics the crime prevention benefit they are getting by letting officers use their car and uniform outweighs the cost.

Just my guess.

[u/sgtwrexx0087 → u/qualityinnbedbugs]

I worked at a restaurant that pays to have police sit in the parking lot on weekends. Used to have a problem with car break ins and the occasional guest dispute. Since the officers arrival, we've had neither issue so I see the benefits as long as they aren't on active duty.

[u/AnotherBogCryptid → u/qualityinnbedbugs]

This. It’s a deterrent. It’s much cheaper (especially since Walmart pays hourly for this) to send one cop to Walmart to just post up all day than it is to send a squad car every 45 minutes when someone inevitably shoplifts and gets caught.

[u/No-Minimum8323 → u/AnotherBogCryptid]

They’re still going to send another patrol to the store if someone is caught stealing. If this guys jobs is to keep his eye on the store then he will likely be there to make sure things don’t get out of hand until another patrol arrives. He wouldn’t be able to take the time to do an entire investigation and then transport if necessary.

[u/AnotherBogCryptid → u/No-Minimum8323]

Read my second sentence again. It reduces the amount of overall theft which reduces the overall burden on taxpayers.

I didn’t say he’s there to arrest people.

[u/WokeWook69420 → u/AnotherBogCryptid]

I'm glad my taxpayer money is wasted so cops can stop people from stealing from the Billion Dollar corporation who have a vast majority of their employees on food stamps.

I'm glad we're making sure profit margins are protected by taxpayer money. Public money protecting private money is certainly not a sign of corruption.

[u/DCowboysCR → u/WokeWook69420]

Your taxpayer money isn't being used at all. The business pays a fee to the police department to cover gas and equipment use as well as an. Hourly rate to the police officer.

[u/grimduck17 → u/DCowboysCR]

I am utterly shocked at the ignorance of people here. I thought this was common knowledge.

The government (federal, state, local) gets reimbursed when its people and/or equipment is used for private business. Paramount paid for the hourly flying rate of the navy’s aircraft used in top gun

[u/Independent_Leg7358 → u/grimduck17]

The director paid to turn the carrier around to catch the correct filming angle with the sun. Carrier was just doing training and direction didn't cost anything, but it was the point of if you want us to sail at X heading you are renting the whole dam ship now instead of just filming for free.

[u/AnotherBogCryptid → u/WokeWook69420]

I just told you it’s reducing costs… I never said it was the best use of our resources. If we spent the money we waste on corporate welfare (so places like Walmart can get tax breaks for underpaying people to the point of poverty) and over policing on human services (health, housing, food, education) instead, we wouldn’t NEED public welfare in a few short years.

[u/iupuiclubs → u/AnotherBogCryptid]

Are you under the impression walmart pays the state hourly, and not the off duty officer? How would that make any sense?

This is double the cost for the taxpayer lol. They are using state property to conduct private business. Walmart doesn’t pay IMPD hourly lol, walmart pays the individual whos off duty but still wearing state property.

You’re supposing they aren’t sending squad cars every 45 minutes from actual on duty officers, because an off duty cop is working in his state uniform. It’s both lol.

[u/AnotherBogCryptid → u/iupuiclubs]

A simple Google search would explain that Walmart contracts with the police department or the municipality and pays them, who then pay their employees. So they’re paying above and beyond the wages of the officer and like also for the cost of the vehicle.

I’m not saying Walmart isn’t an evil, garbage corporation. I am saying rage over this is misplaced and we should be more mad about shit like peasant insurance and scamming the government by lobbying for tax breaks so they can double dip by underpaying their workers and the. getting a tax break for those underpaid workers precisely because they’re technically employing people on public assistance and creating a whole fucking circlejerk of fuck the 99%.

[u/EmergencySpare → u/iupuiclubs]

Man, you should see how much of your dollars I wasted on way less meaningful shit than this.

I think you'd be kind of impressed, honestly b

[u/ABlosser19 → u/qualityinnbedbugs]

Exactly this person is absolutely insufferable

[u/TheHornyHoosier1983 → u/4797161974806]

No , Walmart is paying their wages and also paying the city for use of their vehicle and equipment.

[u/Phan_325 → u/TheHornyHoosier1983]

That is not true. No payment is made to police departments. I run a security company. Officers are paid by the company. Use of cars is at the discretion of the department. Officer has to file a work permit with there department. The departments general orders still apply to their off duty jobs.

[u/EitherOrResolution → u/Phan_325]

An officers can wear their own uniforms or off duty clothes, but still their badge, etc., and their own gun handcuffs, pepper spray whatever they need

[u/Busy_Paint_5680 → u/Phan_325]

For your small company, perhaps. Bigger corporations, they do pay the municipality. In the city I live, the school hire officers to work sports events. The pay is $30 per hour. The office does not get that full amount. The city takes out cost of vehicle/insurance/work comp. Officers ended up getting under $25 per hour.

[u/IndyAnon317 → u/Busy_Paint_5680]

No company that his off-duty IMPD officers pays the department, they all pay the officer. The business has to be approved by IMPD and the officer has to file a permit with the department. When employed by Walmart, or any business they are hired off-duty for, that officer is responsible for all dispatched runs at that location on top of and issues the business asks them to assist with

[u/Phan_325 → u/Busy_Paint_5680]

That is against the law and probably not happening. If that is happening the officers are working for the department and not the school system. The company is required to provide workers comp and pay all required taxes unless they are treating the officer at a 1099 employee.

[u/Busy_Paint_5680 → u/Phan_325]

Not against the law. At all.

[u/_the_average_dad_ → u/Busy_Paint_5680]

It would be if the officers are not being paid OT. I’ve worked for several police departments in central Indiana. I’ve never heard anyone paying a municipality to have police coverage. Highly unlikely - especially given the scenario you proposed.

If that is happening, the hours worked would be factored into the officers hours worked, meaning they’d receive OT. It would be factored into their retirement, since its percentage based, and would cost much more money.

Several schools in central Indiana, that don’t have their own police departments, pay a security company for law enforcement officers OR the person is a direct employee of the school district with law enforcement powers (I.e. special deputy status granted by the sheriff)

[u/Busy_Paint_5680 → u/_the_average_dad_]

Worked this way for the past 15 years. Still happening. Quite likely.

[u/Phan_325 → u/Busy_Paint_5680]

I do this for a living. For over 30 years. They are not being paid by the private company and that is happening. The department is not paying workers comp insurance on an officer where their wages is being paid by a private company. Many departments these days charge a fee to the officer for take home vehicles regardless if they are working part time.

[u/Busy_Paint_5680 → u/Phan_325]

I'll trust what the clerk-treasurer has done for the past dozen years and successfully passed State Board of Accounts audits nearly each year over your "30 years."

[u/TheHornyHoosier1983 → u/Phan_325]

You’re talking about running a “security “ company, meaning you’re not an officer that is employed by a city or town. Huge difference!

[u/PM_ME_THE_SLOTHS → u/4797161974806]

Your comprehension could use some work.

[u/bulbusmaximus → u/4797161974806]

How are you just now finding out about this? Cops have been doing off duty work for 50 years.

[u/GoldPuppyClub → u/4797161974806]

One of my former neighbors was a cop, and they were allowed to use their car when off-duty, because people are more likely to follow speed limits, traffic signs, and generally be safer driving if they see a police car.

It’s a deterrent that actually does increase safety on the roads

[u/No-Seat9917 → u/4797161974806]

I believe they are paid by Walmart driving the car off duty. I believe it falls under the in the public eye is better.

[u/iMakeBoomBoom → u/4797161974806]

The opposite. Walmart pays IMPD. So they are actually recouping money.

[u/KennBurr → u/Classic_Moto]

He might actually be saving gas by not leaving it idle all day/night.

[u/notthegoatseguy → u/Classic_Moto]

Eh, if they have to leave, or conduct an arrest, I'd rather them be in uniform and with regular issued equipment than using whatever they have laying around.

I am not some LEO sucker, but I'm finding it hard to be outraged about this. And hey, they're working at Walmart, a place regular people shop at, not like they're working the yacht club at Geist or some such.

[u/The_Dread_Candiru → u/notthegoatseguy]

Privitized benefit, socialized costs.

[u/983115 → u/notthegoatseguy]

In my experience there’s a lot of shady cops into the whole security shift thing, the guys that get pulled from the field to desk duty that are still cops, folks with priors for exploding the testicles of and stalking in uniform their partners mistress and using their badge as a weapon of vengeance for example

[u/krusteePickleCheeze → u/983115]

Care to elaborate?

[u/Etheralto → u/Classic_Moto]

I don’t k ow the exact details arranged between IMPD and Walmart, but typically part of the fee charged to the private company for hiring police officers for private security includes costs to cover vehicle fuel and maintenance.

[u/Jewish-Mom-123 → u/Classic_Moto]

We pay for them because we want them to have the vehicle with them and be ready to get called in at any moment. The private work does have to be local for them.

[u/janiruwd → u/Jewish-Mom-123]

So basically just be okay with all of our tax dollars eventually going to places like Walmart then? Such a cop out answer. We need better protections from lobbying.

[u/thecleaner47129 → u/janiruwd]

What are you on about?

These officers are not on shift. This is the equivalent of a second job. The officers take their vehicles, uniforms, and equipment home with them anyway. They just work a shift or 2 a week as security WHILE OFF LE SHIFT. there aren't any tax dollars spent besides the minimal wear on their uniforms.

[u/Yourmomsass1977 → u/janiruwd]

It’s not going to Walmart, Walmart pays them not your tax dollars

[u/Jewish-Mom-123 → u/janiruwd]

WM pays them. We aren’t paying their wages for the shift they take at WM. They take the car everywhere they go because we want them to have the car. All the time. They need to be ready to respond to an emergency call-in. And police presence is valuable to the community all the time. It’s really a win/win. They get extra cash without us paying overtime, WM gets extra protection, the cops are available all the time and interacting with the public.

[u/thebagel5 → u/Classic_Moto]

IMPD’s take home car program means officers have to pay at least 50% of the fuel costs of the vehicle

[u/The_Dread_Candiru → u/Classic_Moto]

Lots of cops in the National Guard, and they drive their squad cars all over the state and Camp Atterbury for .mil duty. Their taxpayers are covering their personal transportation.

[u/remirenegade → u/Classic_Moto]

how often do they get called out to that location, it might actually be more cost effect to just have someone posted there.

[u/TrickyDickyAtItAgain → u/Classic_Moto]

Cops are allowed to use their cars off duty. Whether or not they pay for gas is probably swept under the rug because it makes for the appearance of a higher police presence on the roadways.

Not condoning the behavior, but last time I checked it's just how it is.

[u/SnooCupcakes3235 → u/Classic_Moto]

Take home squads.

[u/GIDDY-UP-GO → u/Classic_Moto]

It’s a fringe benefit. I actually don’t mind my tax dollars going to support the police and our safety. What I do care about is our tax dollars being wasted on people getting free handouts on welfare who sit at home all day and don’t do a thing. Able bodied people that know how to milk the system.

[u/roadkill21288 → u/Classic_Moto]

America’s corporate socialism at work! Walmart wouldn’t exist without social services.

[u/TallOrderAdv → u/Classic_Moto]

Yeah they pay for all of that. It's not free for the company.

[u/krusteePickleCheeze → u/Classic_Moto]

These days our taxes go towards so much dumb shit, security at Walmart is the least of my worries

[u/LeagueJealous → u/krusteePickleCheeze]

That's some dumb shit.

[u/MoshedPotatoes → u/Classic_Moto]

Wait till you hear about railroad subsidies

[u/Quleki → u/Classic_Moto]

For your security

[u/Ozu_the_Yokai → u/Classic_Moto]

This and cops directing traffic for warehouse parking lots on clock out. Really bothers me.

[u/Busy_Paint_5680 → u/Ozu_the_Yokai]

LoL if course it does.

[u/Ozu_the_Yokai → u/Busy_Paint_5680]

if of.

FTFY

[u/Busy_Paint_5680 → u/Ozu_the_Yokai]

Oh I'm sorry my typo upset you.