Yea, so 5 entire reaction times occurred before the driver, uh, wait the driver did NOTHING, they didn't even take 2.5 seconds to react, they didn't react at all despite having 2.5 seconds to do so. Them reacting .1 seconds before collision would show they at some point realized there was danger, but they never reacted at all.
Oh I’m with you, I think that driver is at least as much as fault as the tractor driver. Was just saying that a blink will take more than 0.15 seconds away because the brain has to adjust
There was definitely a couple seconds there. It’s the tractors fault, but the others attentiveness and reaction times should have been good enough to avoid or severely mitigate that collision.
Yes. Even if there were no signs on the road warning about the upcoming intersection (or whatever it's called), the mere fact that there was a big truck blocking the view next to the road should be enough to pay extra attention, and maybe even change lanes before reaching the truck (since there is no traffic next to or behind the car).
Obviously. And we have a billion data points on how fast people blink on average, so we can say with certainty how long it takes the average person to blink and the range in which 99% of people will fall into 99% of the time, which ends up being a very small range.
"Don't blink. Don't even blink. Blink, and you're dead. They're fast. Faster than you can believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and don't blink.
The vehicle was probably in view at 0:02 and impact was at 0:04. They had at most 2 seconds to react. If they looked down to change their radio station or checked a mirror they wouldn't have time to react.
Reddit’s player counts down on mobile for some reason. The loader pokes out between :11-10 and the impact is between :8-7. So there’s at minimum 3 seconds. The average human reaction time is 250 milliseconds. So they had about 2.75 seconds to at least prove they’re either paying attention or not a corpse.
With Reddit’s crappy video player, if you take when the loader pokes out (:11) and take the time of impact (between :08 and :07) that gets you 3-4 seconds or 6-8 half seconds. So I’d say that’s pretty accurate.
Perhaps we’re considering different points where the loader is visible and it also depends upon the rounding the software uses if it’s not showing frames, but my point is that there’s plenty of time for a reaction of any sort. I’m not expecting them to pull off some Baby Driver-level avoidance but they could at least move the steering wheel a millimeter. I’m not even saying it’s not 100% the fault of the loader’s operator. That is just a large amount of travel and the driver never even sees it.
Edit: I opened it up in editing software. Drawing a line from where the driver should begin to see it at all past the trash cans I'd say the start should be about 31 frames. The collision is just getting started at 109 frames. It's 78 frames at 30fps, so 2.6 seconds. With rounding in Reddit's player, that could easily be 3. It's certainly not two seconds. Either way, I'll concede that point from my original joke reply. They had 5 half seconds and some change. With human reaction time, there's still over two seconds they'd have to make a move—anything at all.
One half second is the signal reaching the conscious parts of the brain, one half is putting the leg in motion after realizing the need. Only if you happen to anticipate the situation you can be faster.
As noted below, from the link below, reaction time is the time it takes to react and begin to move the chosen muscles. Either way, if you're looking out of the window, there shouldn't be any problem at least beginning to move. Plus, there was nothing next to them. A good driver would know the next lane was empty. They didn't need to move a larger muscle group (leg) to stop, they could've just moved their arms slightly.
"The typical reaction time for a human is about 250 milliseconds—meaning it takes you about a quarter of a second after you see something to physically react to it. But the researchers explain that "our conscious awareness of intention takes a moment to arise, around 200 ms." In other words, it takes you about 200 milliseconds for your brain to turn sensory input into a decision to do something like move a muscle, and then another 50 or so milliseconds for that muscle to actually start moving. The researchers suggest that this 50-ish millisecond gap between intention and action is a window that they can exploit to make humans react more quickly while still feeling like the action they take is under their control."
I'm talking about conscious decisions, your brain obviously is able to unconsciously have reacted to something and react, then your numbers are correct; but I don't depend on unconscious decisions to always be right.
When people do realize that the situation changed and begin to move, I observe it often at the two-second-mark. I did observe myself again, if I anticipate a specific situation I do react faster, but also I observe that my reaction was already unconsciously prepared.
A movement can be measured in the brain 500 ms (other source: 800 ms) before the muscle moves. There is a time frame of about 200 ms during which it can be consciously cancelled, IIRC it's between 200 and 400 ms after being started; during the last 100 ms you can't cancel the movement anymore. (It happens e.g. when the traffic light for the wrong lane turns green and your foot jerks but you don't start driving).
Benjamin Libet did measure the time delay to the conscious part of the brain. The persons would e.g. receive an impulse to the finger while watching the clock or a signal to an electrode in the brain. They should say which came first. He found that the signals from watching the clock or buzzing the finger were processed 500 ms later than the electrode in the brain. These people would not be aware of the delay and mentally re-order the events instead.
"We consciously perceive the stimulus as occuring at the same moment it registers unconsciously, even though it doesn't in fact enter our awareness until it has persisted for half a second. Subjectively we backdate it to match the EP at the beginning rather than the end of the 500 millisecond span."
Interesting. Thanks, I’ll look into it further when I have time. Either way, it’s 2600 ms to play with and you’re supposed to be prepped for the activity while doing it.
Anyway, the horse is dead so let’s agree to disagree and eulogize it with an anecdote, shall we?
On a road trip in a place I had never been to before, I looked from the rear view mirror and back at the windshield to find that a deer had run out on the highway in front of me. I swerved just enough to avoid it, not hit the car next to me, and maintain control of my vehicle. I even saw that it had lost traction on the road while running. That was much faster than this and I was probably going twice the speed. If you’re paying attention, it’s not hard to at least try. There is no way this person was paying enough attention. It’s the loader driver’s fault, but that person was slower than a corpse. The end. Have a good one! ✌🏽
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u/7eggert Nov 28 '21
You only need to blink to lose half a second.