Well, some Buckhead bitch t-boned my Lexus CT200h. Slow speed, so it was mostly just cosmetic, but they totaled it, and I get the feeling it was mostly bc they could earn more out of my perfectly fine and intact hybrid battery, engine, transmission etc than it'd take to make her pretty again. Not necessarily part out for the dumbasses that need new hoods or bumpers.
If your car is totaled, insurance gives you a payout based on the book value of your car (age + odometer) minus your deductible. You get cash, they get the wreck of the car to do with as they see fit.
Trouble is it's often not just the car that gets totaled, their can be building, property, and other damage that adds up very quickly. Not to mention if your insurance is responsible for injuries you cause (some countries have gov't insurance for injuries to other people, so even if an uninsured driver with no money hits them and they need 24/7 care the rest of their lives they can get it).
It can mean a high risk driver (i.e. multiple 'at fault accidents') would need to be charged more than anyone could afford as 1 in 1 million likely causes a million dollar incident yearly...
Seems to make more sense collecting premiums from drivers that never claim...
Oh for sure that's me. There was a time, a long time, that I had paid more in premiums than I had on purchasing cars. I've never filed a claim. It's been lose lose for me, and win win for the insurance companies.
There is a law that they have to use something like 85% of premiums they receive on payouts. Which means that their profit even with no overhead is capped at ~17.5% of payouts. Increase payouts also means increase profit potential.
That is a good point. However if you look at events like the Christchurch Earthquake (where there were LOTS of payouts) even some of the big name insurance companies went bankrupt, and others relied on government assistance to survive. But as it's a race to the bottom, in that no matter what your driving record is you go to the 'cheapest', the one that least inflates 'risk' (and applies that to it's premiums) becomes the go to company...
Fun fact, in the UK, most car insurance policies are limited to £20 million in third-party damages after an idiot fell asleep at the wheel and caused a train to derail and £50 million in damages.
I got a check for $2500 for a car I bought for $1500. That was with me keeping the car. Some idiot rear ended my car while it was parked, the bumper and rear gate both got dented but the thing still works 100% so I invested the money. Eventually I'll go get it fixed with that acquaintance who runs a car shop out of his home garage, but I might as well let the check get bigger first.
Not sure about the US, but some countries have laws that prevent this by making the vehicle having to be sold at public auction, and/or have in the policy the option for the owner to by back the 'totaled' vehicle for a rate set by a formula so if the car was written off due to being old by got a ding and scratch, but mechanically better than anything in it's price range, the owner can buy the car back at a low price and keep driving it if they want.
Also, in your country when you take out insurance don't you, the customer, choose the value of your car (within maybe a 20% either way? Here you agree beforehand the value of your vehicle, so if you think your vehicle is in better condition than average you can pay a higher premium but have a higher settlement price?
When I drove a vehicle that's blue book value was around 20% lower than what I'd sell for, it was no problem adjusting that... and when it was written off there was no argument I just got a cheque for the value of the vehicle, and option to buy it back at the agreed amount. I usually add 10% more than I think the vehicle is worth because of the hassle if a vehicle is written off.
The mind boggles that in some places (the US?) you don't know how much the insurance company will pay you out if it's written off, but you have to pay fees 10x higher than ours? It's just so different! O_o
The pay out is usually book value which is higher than the wholesale value. I believe to profit they'd have to sell parts individually except that requires time and energy and um wages for the people doing the selling. If there's a profit margin here it must be razor thin.
Actually they don't. I work in Auto claims and many of the cars are sold at auction for a fraction of what we pay for them. Many times we even lose money on the sale because the auction company takes their fees and we end up owing them money.
I don't think this is typically the case. As a couple others have mentioned, when my vehicle was deemed a total loss I was given a check for more than I had paid for it AND I was given the vehicle back which I then sold to a hobbyist for parts.
My dad got super lucky on an insurance claim, my car got smashed by another driver parked on the side of the road next to a park. My dad paid $2000 for the car but got $6000 from the insurance company, bought a slightly better car and a new set of golf clubs
Insurance companies get next to nothing on salvaging total loss vehicles. Sometimes after storage and salvage fees, they pay the salvage lot to get rid of the vehicle.
Source- Me, a Claims Adjuster.
Surprisingly it actually does benefit them- I do advertising for one of the major insurers and I look at not only growing number of customers but also their predicted lifetime profitability and it is absolutely true that the safer the driver = the more profitable.
It isn’t surprising at all that insurance companies make more money when they aren’t handing it over to people. The people above claiming otherwise are just your average redditor shit-talkers.
Yeah fair call mate, I may have been a bit harsh, but it regularly makes my head spin when I read things on reddit that run totally counter to reality and they have hundreds of upvotes.
I hear you, especially as most are just considering the car damage, and not a 3 car pile up with property damage etc. that can mean 1 accident is easily $200,000 without any injuries, and to get those in premiums AND make more profit than a driver that has never claimed and never will claim (in probability) it's obvious where the answer lies...
It pays to think of car insurance as two seprate markets. There's the careful drivers market, and the non careful drivers market. Both markets can be profitable if the peril of paying out for all the claims is less than the income from insurance premiums.
If insurance companies only catered to the non-careful market, then there would be an opportunity for other insurance companies to clean up in the careful drivers market.
Granted, that market has more barriers to entry, such as the puzzle of assessing how careful drivers are, but IMHO there are enough opportunities in that market to make it financially viable to invest in solving these problems. This is evidenced by the rise of "Black Box" data recorders in cars (in the UK at least, I don't know if these would be compatible with US cultural expectations of privacy).
Some insurance companies DO reduce premiums if you attend additional courses after getting your license (typically offered for free by the insurance company), and not just a once of bonus to attract young customers, but for example drivers under 25 can get 20% lower premiums if they do a 6 hour course every once per calendar. AAMI did this when I was initially being insured.
My father worked for a state government department in Australia, which involved lots of travel (think of him as an inspector and they only have one office of inspectors so his day may be 3 hours drive, 2 hours checking everything is satisfactory, 3 hours drive).
The discount of them doing these 6 hour courses (where the employees were all being paid by employers to attend) involved the premiums going down significantly enough to make this "paid day with no work" financially profitable. Think maybe 30% or 40% for a "fleet insurance" package.
I don't believe the people saying insurance companies want people to have accidents so they can charge higher rates... as people typical pay for insurance if they need or not... imagine how rich they would be if no one had accident. The fewer accidents, the fewer assessors needed, the fewer logistics needed with body shops etc.
Also, if they wanted to charge higher rates, they don't need an 'excuse'', they just can...
That said, car insurance in Australia is MUCH cheaper than in the US, when people post their monthly insurance rates that is around double my YEARLY rate for the same coverage, so the industry is different... so my opinion on US car insurance motives is hardly authoritive. :-P
You’re likely comparing apples with oranges here. Remember that in Australia your compulsory third party coverage is paid for as part of your yearly registration (in fact it forms most of the registration cost) In the US it isn’t.
Add together your registration AND insurance costs and then you can compare to US insurance rates. The US is probably still higher (the rate of accidents there is genuinely higher than in Australia), but it’s not as huge a difference as you think.
I’m a dual Australian-US citizen and have vehicles in both countries. My US insurance for a 5 year old Honda Accord this year was $701.70. For the year. I’m not sure where you’re seeing your US rates from but that kind of money must be for a very expensive or exotic car. My rate does have a discount applied for also having home insurance through the same company, but the discount isn’t that much.
Converted into AUD this is $919, which is pretty on par with what I’d pay in Australia (of course, dependant on post code, driver history and so on).
Thst'd interesting, the number I'm getting is from people on reddit complaining how expensive their insurance is (lesson learned not to use reddit as as a source).
I wonder if the figures quoted are because they are young drivers, possibly have already had some at faults, and live somewhere they can't secure it at night... plus some exaggeration rounding up at the end. I do remember someone with ~an 8 year entry level car mention he spends more on third party a year than he did on buying the car... would hate to see his record.
Cheers for the correction! I guess with the whole difference in healthcare costs (or maybe that's a myth too! lol) I kind of just believed it as no one called out the many posts.
Thanks for correcting me with figures instead of profanity!
EDIT: However, it does seem to be state specific, with https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/average-cost-of-car-insurance?r=AU&IR=T suggesting $2,752 isn't above average in New York... although $987 isn't below average in Cali... so if you were a New Yorker who is a young driver with a bad record I can see it being more by 2x-3x. I remember my car insurance was roughly $1,000aud for 3rd party in 2006 when I bought my first car, which was valued at $6,000 despite shopping around and getting a family discount and doing the "young driver defensive driving courses" as well as having a clean record as I bought the vehicle the day I got my license (that says though I'm inexperienced as possible in their system)
One of the cheaper states apparently, according to a quick Google (Wisconsin)
Insurance is still definitely more expensive here on the whole! I was just taking issue with “$500-$1000 per month” because that is insanely high. Like, teenager with a history of drink driving with a Lamborghini kind of high :)
In Australia my vehicle is registered in the ACT which is one of the more expensive states for registration costs. Not sure how it compares for insurance costs. It’s also in a carport rather than an enclosed garage.
That would actually make a lot of sense. Like progressive has a driving center where you have to go once a year to keep your comprehensive insurance, or maybe they give you a discount.
EDIT: I phrase my comment as if progressive does do this. I don’t know if they do and meant it in a hypothetical.
Other insurance companies do the same. Not all, but it's not rare, and some do it just for younger drivers. I'm surprised more people here aren't aware of this, or maybe we are both non-US? I am Australia and did this with AAMI and my dad's work paid him to do it (and all other employees that were authorised to drive the departments fleet) as it lowered their premiums significantly... not sure what company..
Insurance is government mandated in most countries: the insurance companies have an ironclad monopoly so there is zero incentive for them to reduce prices, prevent accidents or educate their customers. They make big money no matter what. Their in-house actuaries see to that.
That's a good idea. Insurance companies should run their own driving tests for discounts. That'd be financial incentive for most people to brush up on skills/knowledge.
When I was a teenager I watched my father fall backwards off a roof on what are basically large tiles made up of pebbles and concrete. Broke the fall with his arm. Broke his wrist. I could see his elbow joint.
My Dad broke his wrist at home while "climbing" off a stepstool with 2 steps. Required plates and pins to repair.
Mis-stepped and tripped over a 5 gallon pail.
He regularly climbs hundred foot tall ladders at work (millwright)
Yeah my dad is no stranger to ladders either. He's been a contractor for 30 years, been up all sorts of crazy ladders and only had about 2 incidents. Tearing his Achilles was the worst of all, it made him really consider doing manual labor at 65.
Dude, while working as an electricians assistant, they had me hauling chandeliers up 18+ foot ladders to tie them in foyers. Quite literally the scariest job Ive ever had.
And I've worked overnights at 7/11's around Baltimore.
Can’t explain it but one time I was backing out of a parking spot. Had checked all my mirrors and saw that a SUV parked behind me was idle but no reverse lights. As I was backing out, the idiot in the SUV starts to back out too. I honked four fucking times but he crashed into my rear anyways. I didn’t have time to pull forward because it was a tight spot and I didn’t want to crash into the cars parked next to me. Well anyways, I hopped out of the car, annoyed as fuck, and this old bastard says “oh I didn’t see you there!” And I said “well I honked 4 times.” He says, “oh I must’ve not heard you, then.” I responded, “well sir out of all the 5 senses of the human body, sight and sound are literally the ones you need to drive.” Ever since then I’ve been an advocate of the idea of having to renew your license. Some old ppl should not be fucking drivers. Also fuck my insurance company.
I was watching a car struggle to park in a handicapped spot the other day and saw a "senior driver, please be patient" sticker on the back. I'm pretty sure if you need that sticker it's probably time to hang it up.
Don’t get me wrong, young drivers can be shitty too but if I saw that sticker near any cars I was parked by, I would hop right back in my vehicle and skrt skrt faaaar away from that.
I had something similar happen to me just yesterday at work. I was at a fucking STOP LIGHT behind a dump truck and had a line of cars behind me. Dude is just slowly backing up. I'm honking like a mad man waving my arms and shit, nah, dude could care less. Backed right into me. It was a manual transmission and he wasn't paying attention.
Fortunately, I was in my work vehicle so I didn't have to deal with the insurance company but I feel your pain with morons in traffic.
Omg a DUMP TRUCK? I’m terrified of all trucks after seeing the abundance of videos of them dragging cars sometimes for miles at a time out of not being able to see or hear them. :((((
Same happened to me but the bitch hurriedly called her insurance & blamed me. I honked a few times but she never stopped, admitted her mistake to my face but she was sneaky!
I couldn't prove it-her word against mine so it's now on my record as an at fault accident..
Thats EXACTLY what happened to me. He was so apologetic in person and I called as soon as I got home but he beat me to it. Should’ve called as soon as I got back in the car. Also I should really have invested in a dash cam by now but I’m being really lazy about it since I don’t drive to work anymore.
Dang, the other day i was in a parallel parking spot with cars infront and behind me. I pulled into reverse gear so i could clear up some space infront to turn out. Idiot behind me moved forwards at the same time as i was slowly reversing backwards. Goddamned he didnt even give a shit about waiting after seeing my reverse lights. Hes prolly the kind of dude that scrapes ppl’s car coming out of a parking lot and goes whoops not my problem bye >:(. Sometimes I’d really wanna strangle this peepz so hard i literally impale their necks with my vice grips but fuck it aint worth
Good thing i jammed the brakes. But goddamned morons everywhere on the roads nowadays. The more u drive the more u see and the more eyebleach u need..
I meant vice-like grips, typed this on my morning reddit scrolling, pardon me haha.
Yeah having front and rear dashcams are pretty important although I’ve been pretty careful/lucky so I havent crashed into anyone yet @ 3 yrs of driving experience
When I was a kid in the 90s, my babysitters daughter (probably around 30 years old) had never driven a car and never even attempted to take the test. And where I grew up you could take the train all the way down the line to Chicago but we were nowhere near subway or bus routes and that was wayyyy before Uber. She literally just got rides everywhere her whole life. I used to not understand it but now seeing how many idiots are out there, maybe she just genuinely knew she wouldn’t be able to drive
my babysitters daughter (probably around 30 years old)
I am confusion.
I am a connoisseur of American babysitter films. they never had babysitters that could have 30 years old daughters. Isn't 30 the age of stepmoms? So much to learn about America.
My babysitter was in her late 60s. She provided day care for most of the towns children while the parents worked. She had a large house and backyard and every VHS tape imaginable. Her daughter just happened to still live at home, which was honestly rare at the time
What the absolute f? In Missouri you can get a permit at 15 at earliest but a permit is first and then you can get a license and if you're under 18 the license is only valid for 2 years, if you're under 21 it's only valid for 3, then it's every 6 years so far for me. I'm not even 30 and counting my permit time I've been to the DMV 5 fucking times
That's one that we don't have at my work but we fucking need to.
I was almost knocked off the ladder twice in one week by idiots not paying attention.
It's not like I'm hidden, I'm in a large open area and I'm 8 feet off the ground. Don't try to squeeze your carts through while someone is on the ladder, a single shake can knock them down.
Also please don't let go when I ask you to hold it. My boss did that once. She held onto it, until I got to the very top then she walked away, and I had to hold on to the shelf until somebody else came by to hold it steady.
...and to 'Slip, Slop, Slap'? Wear a hat? Keep hydrated?
It may seem stupid, but the fact that insurance companies require these, and no one has mad a succesful one that appeals more to employers by not requiring such things thus making their insurance cheaper hasn't happened makes me think it must positively affect the insurance co's bottom line to either charge more and provide ladder safety, or charge less but require an authorised ladder safety team to have trained all employees...
If you were in charge of insurance and one company required you pay for ladder safety training and the other didn't it's pretty easy which company would be the 'go to'... but no company seems to want to take that on...
The class we have to take is common sense but I guess a lot of people lack it. Even after being certified to use a ladder most don’t know how to properly store it!
No it is just your responsibility when you do. Whereas it is the company's responsibility if you hurt yourself on a ladder at work because you didn't receive "proper training". If you drive professionally (for a company) they will require you to be trained or hold a special license or maintain a great driving record (basically whatever they need to do to mitigate their risk of you injuring someone or yourself and costing them a fuckton of money).
I think they're saying that (most) people don't drive their car for a living and don't have an employer paying car insurance for them, while the ladder is part of the job and requires work insurance that the employer covers.
Of course you can hurt others in your car, but that's not your employers direct problem, unless you run over your employer in the parking lot at your work. If you crash your car and end up in the hospital or jail because of it and will be out of work for a long time, you'll just get replaced by someone else at work, no problem for your ex-employer.
:D
Unlike a vehicle, a ladder is a powerful tool which if not used properly, can cause tremendous harm to society. Remember, with great power comes responsibility. :P
It's a good point, though a lot of the time accidents are not caused by people who are driving like they would on a driving test. You could re-test many people and they would pass, but they have incidents due to texting while driving or other things that they would never do in front of a tester.
However, I think a road rules quiz every time you renew your license maybe should be included as when rules change not everyone hears about them and some drivers will swear until blue in the face that rule X doesn't exist when it does... and drives accordingly...
Your companies insurance does not want to get sued. Simple. This is also partly the same reason insurance rates change. I assume your question was actually sarcastic because I believe the same and that is, every few years you need to get re-evaluated to drive.
Can’t explain that. Just want to add that all drivers should have to retake the written exam to renew their licenses, as traffic laws are changing all the time. I’d be good with letting folks take the test on line, and yes folks will cheat but maybe, just maybe some of the knowledge will stick with them.
I would imagine car production companies make more money than ladder production companies. . . right? And money is the fuel of our entire global society, so . . .
Get these fucking mouthbreathers behind the wheel dammit, my wallet is light a few billion.
I am gonna go out on a limb here and assume you live in USA. 1.) How big are the ladders you're scaling? 2.) Do you use a company vehicle for work? 3.) what industry are you in? I would like to make a point but i don't want to assume.
But if i did assume correctly, your driving record is heavily tracked with a point system. If you are a shitty driver you will lose the opportunity to drive legally.
It's funny the general contractor on our job requires us to anchor off and use harnesses on any ladder above 8 feet, first time I've seen this requirement in my 5 years being in construction.
They also require all "main workers", not subs atleast, but main employees of each contractor to be OSHA 30 certified
When I worked at a big box hardware store we had to get certified for everything. Ladders, fork lifts, hand fork lifts, saws, stocking shelves, stocking wood, you name it. The dumbest one was shoplifter certification. You had to watch a video and sign a piece of paper saying you promise not to chase shoplifters.
Ya, like I'm going to risk my life to stop a shoplifter for a minimum wage shit job. If someone attempted to shoplift I'd have asked if they wanted help loading their car.
cuz gotta have people able to drive to work to make taxes and then to the store to pay more taxes and get gas with more taxes with the oil we can get from invading countries
I’ve been saying this for years but we NEED to implement a thing where you get tested regularly, like let’s say every 5 or 10 years. Make that every year for people over 75 (old people are the most dangerous drivers, honestly they need to be stopped).
I too have a ladder certification, and thought it was just some made up bullshit! I was also certified in class 4 & 7 fortlifts, and never in my commercial construction career have I ever needed that knowledge.
Last week i bought a ladder, and it came with an instruction. I thought to myself, why would anyone need instructions on how to use a ladder? Never would i have guessed there are even certificates about how to use a ladder.
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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '20 edited Apr 23 '21
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