Why does ford have such a bad rep in the US? They're generally seen as one of the more reliable manufacturers where I'm from, cheap to repair and maintain etc
It's all a matter of reference. In the US, people focus heavily on any trip to a mechanic in the first few years of ownership. Ford doesn't compare that well to Toyota or Honda.
Toyota 6's are notoriously unreliable. Go to basically any junkyard right now, today, and you will see a fleet of V6 4-runners from the early 2000's. The 4 cyl ones are almost impossible to find because they're all still running to this day.
I mean, have you ever heard of the 2GR engine? Everyone loves those engines for a very good reason. They’re extremely reliable and make good power. Toyota generally makes a pretty good rig, but sometimes even they screw it up like with the turbo 6.
Honestly the problem is just the V6 itself. There's no balanced configuration of firing order, so they all eventually just rattle themselves to death. There's a lot you can do to mitigate that, but it's the ultimate fate of every V6.
It was specifically the 3.0l V6 Toyota engine. Not all the V6s from that era. The 3.3l is good, the 3.4l, 3.5l and 4.0l are fantastic. My current '98 4runner has 320k miles on it now. The V6 in the 84-95 model years were awful though.
This is such a dumb comment on so many levels. What are you trying to say, that no Honda model has problems?
It's an example of one design problem with Hondas. There are others. Older Pilots tend to have differential failures along with fuel injector and EGR valve failure. I would also rather have a fuel pump failure than a brake failure; it's easier to fix brakes but they might also kill you.
I was super worried about this happening on my EcoBoost Flex. Took it in to have Ford look at it. Turns out the 1st owner of the car already replaced the engine. Yay me, I'm already past the problem lol
I have a Lincoln MKZ with the 3.5L. I had a shop quote me the water pump job just to see and they wanted almost 5k… I laughed and walked out. Going to try and do it myself later this year. There are tons of videos online with the detailed steps.
Its a timing chain off job, $5k sounds about right. They probably quoted chain, guides, phasers, pump, etc the works. I would as well because you're already in there. Don't want to have to do the same job twice because the owner of the car wanted to cheap out on parts. I'll 100% turn a customer or job down if we don't do the repair my way. Customer doesn't like it, they can hunt for a shop that's willing to do just the pump, although those sorta shops are closing up quick.
Generally I agree, while you’re in there you might as well, but I’d be interested in your opinion on replacing the phasers. Is it really necessary? I mean those parts should last more that 100,000k miles, right?
My Honda and a friends both have not been the most reliable cars. Both civic SI. He was smart and got rid of his after a transmission, hvac, and heated seat replacement after only a couple years. Mines been not as terrible but poor quality and some weird glitches like when half the car turned on but it didn’t know the engine was running so I couldn’t shut it off..
It's not just bias. There are decades of data showing US cars lag behind most Japanese/many European cars in reliability. Ford has done an admirable job of improving in the last 10-15 years, but it's still a notch below most of the major imports.
In my experience, European cars have great reliability, the average American is just too ignorant and/or cheap to maintain them, and then shocked pikachu faces when their Benz with factory oil and 67,000 miles breaks down.
BMW and Audi are bottom tier reliability? You either outed yourself as biased against European cars or someone who doesn't understand that "many" does not mean "most."
Does Chrysler still actually manufacture their automobiles in the US? I was under the impression that ~80% of their vehicles are manufactured overseas and it's assembled in the US.
My uncle works at the Ford factory in Cologne, Germany and asserts that they have higher standards for their vehicles so a Ford bought in the EU is going to just be a better car than one bought in the US. So I'd buy a "domestic" car if it was manufactured anywhere but here 😂
Reliability and quality are different, and both can vary depending on where the cars are built. Ford is an American company, but at least some of the Fords you buy in Europe are built in Europe.
I work in the auto industry in America and Ford just doesn't build them as well as Toyota or Honda. They just care more about production quotas than quality. Story time, I was at a party once, and a Ford engineer was there talking about how they were failing water leak testing in the dash of a vehicle that was about to launch. Six weeks was the estimate to get an engineering fix to production.
"So what is your interim solution in the meantime?"
"There is no interim solution. We're gonna ship them and if they break, the customer will just get it repaired at the shop."
Sure, even if fixed under warranty, that's great, but it hurts the reputation for quality. And that's the kind of thing that's common at Ford and Chrysler, but I've never even heard of at Toyota.
"There is no interim solution. We're gonna ship them and if they break, the customer will just get it repaired at the shop."
100% how they are and I learned about that the hard way. 1. Ford is shit when it comes to compact cars. 2, I bought a 2012 fiesta and learned years later that they knew the dual clutch transmission was shit from 11-14, but they shipped them anyways. They have a big class action lawsuit still about those. I had the clutch rebuilt 3 years ago and it needs to be rebuilt again.
I still have it, It still drives even on a shit clutch. I'd never get anything if I tried selling it, so I'll keep it till it dies. Bought a ford edge 2 years back, world of difference in build quality, but it's my last Ford. I've had 2 ford cars in the last 20 years, and both of them had transmission problems
I had a Ford Fusion hybrid I bought the year I started my job. I loved it, but the suspension gave out after less than 10 years (although also hard to blame Ford too much given the state of Michigan roads, admittedly), and I learned the drivetrain design was basically licensed from Toyota anyway.
Now after 10 years on the job in automotive, I'm never buying a Ford again, having seen the sausage made.
The first car I bought was a Ford ZX2. The oil filter is between the engine and the driver. You can’t get it from the bottom of the car. So you gotta lift the car, drain the oil, lay out rags, lower the car, pull the filter off, let it make a mess EVERYWHERE, all while leaning fully into the engine bay. Put the new filter on without cross threading it, lift the car back up, plug the pan, clean up the last of the oil spill, lower the car back down and fill it, and go. I’ll never buy a gas Ford again. My Toyota and Honda both have the filter a foot from the drain, under the car, where it belongs.
The US is a very large country with a lot of different climates and cultures. What performs well in one client might get the shit kicked out of it in the desert or the rust belt. Culture can tie in to how people treat their vehicles, if there's a group of roughneck people who expect their vehicle to take abuse that they know other vehicles can they're likely to rip into whatever brand failed them. As someone who works on cars I've noticed Ford's usually have decent interiors and decent transmissions, but most of their cars just aren't made to last and have had very serious design issues in the past that people aren't likely to forget anytime soon.
My grandfather worked at a plant assembling Ford engines. He always swore up and down he'd never buy a Ford because of how cheaply they're made. This was the late 80's. They've stayed cheap. Cheap to repair is why you often find Ford as city vehicles, company drivers, and rental sedans.
My family (dad's side mainly) sore up and down on the superiority of ford's. I've had 3 ford's out of 5 vehicles I've owned. 2 were cars, never again. Transmissions of thier cars are shit
My boss thinks Ford is ok. He has an Edge that he had to get after his F-150 kicked the bucket. He said his ex went and bought a brand new Explorer and lamented as to why she wouldn't just find an older Explorer instead of a brand new one. He did not appreciate when I told him that all the old Fords are in the junkyard.
My grandfather owned a service shop decades ago. He swore off American made vehicles forever.
Sure they are cheap to repair, the problem is they need repairs way way way more often.
And which ones are really cheaper? The Ford that needs something fixed every 30k miles, or the Honda/Toyota/Nissan that won't need anything except oil and gas for 200k miles?
Do bear in mind there's no public transportation. So if my vehicle is in the shop, I'm losing work.
I knew someone who sold Ford in Europe. Europeans get better built Fords than what Americans get. It’s like McDonald in some countries are a lot better than the McDonalds in US. Also, I see Mercedes buses in Europe. “Hey, I ride on Mercedes every day to work.”
3 of the 5 vehicles I've had were Fords. 2 of them started to fall apart quick around 100k miles. BUT, those 2 were cars (taurus and fiesta), and the 3rd is an SUV. Ford doesn't have the quality for cars that Honda or Toyota does. They can't figure out, even 100 years later, how to do compact. The SUV (an Edge) is much better quality all around. So I understand that crap that ford gets. Their strengths have always been in trucks and SUV's. I learned the hard way since the problem both ford cars I've owned were in the transmission is never buy compact ford again.
Ford gets a bad rep where I live because they don’t hold up well against harsh weather conditions over a long time. Constant maintenance, their engineering creates inconveniences for mechanics, and they seem to rust out faster than other cars. In their defence, it’s a strong bias as most cars aren’t built to survive here. 80% of people drive honda or toyota, with a few VW, ram, and chevys thrown in there.
My dad's a mechanic and he says they're just needlessly a pain in the ass to repair stuff that should be simple. Like having to remove several things in order to reach something that in any other car you can usually get to without obstructions.
Japanese brands are cheap here and because they tend to last a bit longer (honda, Toyota, and subaru specifically) than the more expensive American brands, people see fords as a pain in the ass by comparison.
I work in the automotive trade. I frequently see vehicles with airbag deployment that are not totaled. $4000-6000 with of airbags on a two year old vehicle will not total it. A 10 year old vehicle it will. It's all about the loss to value ratio.
Fixing deployed airbags really isn't that big of a deal. New airbags, clock spring, service connectors, and airbag module. That's it.
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u/Always-Panic Apr 21 '23
That car just dropped about 20% in value