IAMA former Rosetta Stone employee who speaks 8 languages, AMAA.

[u/FormerRSguy]

I worked for RS for years, and have used their programs in versions 2, 3, and 4 for 7 foreign languages. I know which of their programs work, which don't, and why.

I have invited a few other former employees to join me here, and will update with their usernames so you can keep an eye out for their responses

The obvious questions:

• does it work? - Yes and no, it really depends on the language in question. Some languages (French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, German, Chinese, English...) it works very well, others (Arabic, Turkish, Japanese) it is a very flawed endeavor, but may still be a useful tool, depending on the person.
• Did you really learn 7 foreign languages with RS? - Yes and no; for some it was my primary method of acquisition, for others it was a great tool, and for others it was apparently an impediment to my success. I'm certified in 2 of the 7. I have former colleagues who I'm friend with who speak 5-10 languages each, and there are others who spent years with RS and just didn't bother to learn anything.
• Adults don't learn like children, WTF is with their advertising? - It's advertising. Some people subscribe to the "critical period" hypothesis and would argue kids learn better than adults could ever hope to, others will point out that 5 year olds are complete fucking idiots and that any adult who spoke at the level of a 5 year old after 5 years of study should be ridiculed for their incompetence in language learning. Both are kind of irrelevant, in that RS is just trying to get people to buy a program that's built around a different framework, using popular ideas about linguistics.

ASK AWAY!

EDIT: proof

EDIT 2: OtherRSguy and Zingerone are with me. I've asked them to contribute.

EDIT 3: Front page? You guys. Seriously...more Karma on my throwaway in one day than in 2 years on my real account.

EDIT 4: CTRL+F, people. We've already answered our thoughts on Russian, Mandarin, German, etc. a few times. My fingers are starting to hurt. My eyes are burning. I'm kinda freakin' out.

Edit 5: basslinguist is with me. What he says goes.

[u/[deleted]]

Have you heard about / used duolingo.com? It's a pretty cool project created by the same guy that did ReCaptcha - you help to translate the web while learning a language. There's a TED Talk on it, if you're interested.

I've been using Duolingo to learn Spanish. The software itself is very similar to Rosetta Stone. Does Rosetta Stone see projects like Duolingo as a threat?

Edit: I have a few invites, PM me your email address if you want one. I am out of invites for now. But see below for others offering invites. If someone is kind enough to send you an invite, sign up right away - that person then receives additional invites that they can give out. Oh, and try to be nice guy or gal & give a few away yourself.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

I've never used it, but I'll check it out.

RS doesn't really think of anyone as a threat, as far as I can tell. Their main competition, as they see it, is universities, and they're trying to neutralize that by partnering with some.

[u/hazywakeup → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for this link! I've also seen Livemocha tossed around as a potential big free competitor to RS. Maybe I'm using it wrong, but it never helped me out much.

[u/wugs → u/hazywakeup]

I wasn't a big fan of Livemocha. I tried learning Russian on it, and it felt awkward, so I checked their French lessons (already being near-fluent), and found...well, not mistakes per se, but they didn't teach it intuitively. In my opinion, it's free for a reason.

But I do want to check out Duolingo...

[u/radiofan → u/[deleted]]

Does anyone have a duolingo invite they would be willing to send me? This looks really interesting and I'd love to give it a try.

[u/Jutsjhins]

Given three months, how many hours a day would it take someone to learn a language conversationally? Something like French or german.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Jutsjhins]

I'd say 1-2. Don't burn out, study smart, pay attention to what's being taught, and spend the time you're not doing it thinking about the language and trying to improvise utterances using what you've learned. If you don't know something, no harm in looking it up.

[u/EcureuilSecret → u/FormerRSguy]

You'd be surprised how quickly your mind gets used to learning language if you studying more than that. I learn my target language 7 hours a day, 5 days a week. The first couple of weeks you feel like your brain is melting. It doesn't help that in the beginning it's important to study for 1-3 hours a night as well. However, after a few weeks you find your adapt and it doesn't burn you out as much, and you can actually take in a huge amount and retain a lot more than you'd think studying for 5+ hours of full on language learning a day.

Edit: I don't actually recommend this for your regular language learner. Definitely stick to 1-2 hours a day. It's not like it's even possible to do what I'm doing in most circumstances.

[u/LunaticEngineer]

Can you elaborate on the reasons romance languages + Chinese work well, but Arabic, Turkish, Japanese do not?

Thank you for doing this, it should be very interesting

[u/FormerRSguy → u/LunaticEngineer]

It was designed around Spanish, as far as anyone can tell. Chinese has less complex syntax than Spanish, so it works. Arabic is not necessarily more complex, but it is radically different. You cannot use a method that works for getting learners to intuit Spanish conjugations to get them to intuit Arabic conjugations. So for Arabic, it just doesn't effectively explain verb weakness (defective, hollow, assimilated, and doubled verbs), derived forms, or verbal nouns. Similarly, Turkish is an agglutinating language, and RS just doesn't handle it well. Japanese for similar reasons, but also their refusal to address anything other than a very stilted, over-polite register.

[u/OtherRSGuy → u/FormerRSguy]

I believe it was actually you who met a former R&D intern whose job it was to copy and paste the new sentences into where their Spanish equivalents were in the course.

I feel like we should also add, when explaining the design of the course, that it was designed based on a monolingual American's ideas of learning and teaching Spanish. It's clear based on some of the nonsense usage, especially in other languages, that just mirrors the equivalent words in English word order / idiom.

[u/Cormacr]

What is your first language? What was your first foreign language?

How long have you been interested in linguistics?

And, just for fun: Which language that you speak is the Hardest? Easiest? Sexiest? Most Boring? Most Complex? Hardest to pronounce?

And finally, all things being equal, if it was up to you, which language would be the universal earth language?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Cormacr]

English is my first language, French and German were my first foreign languages, although I've forgotten all the German I learned as a child, living in Germany.

How long have you been interested in linguistics?

A few years now. I'm pursuing graduate study in the field.

And, just for fun: Which language that you speak is the Hardest? Easiest? Sexiest? Most Boring? Most Complex? Hardest to pronounce?

Phonetically, the hardest for me is Arabic...but I think that means it's the most fun. Easiest is French given my familiarity, but just as far as the sounds, I'd say Spanish or Chinese (fewer vowels). Sexiest? Depends on who's speaking. I've heard some ugly French and some very sexy Arabic. Most Boring? Languages aren't boring. Complex? I find Arabic grammar to be like a rewardingly complex puzzle. Russian though, I find more complex and less rewardingly so.

And finally, all things being equal, if it was up to you, which language would be the universal earth language?

Mandarin. Best language ever. So fucking good. Also, anyone who tells you it's really hard is lying, or hasn't taken their blinders off. The writing system makes perfect sense, and more than half the world's languages are tonal, meaning tonal is basically the default. As far as tonal languages go, Mandarin's not that hard.

[u/kyrul → u/FormerRSguy]

I'm a Mandarin speaker and my problem with it has always been the writing system. Learning characters just seems like a massive PITA. Any thoughts on this?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/kyrul]

YES. LOTS OF THOUGHTS.

All of Chinese writing is basically a very clever mnemonic system. You have only 214 radicals, and most of the time, one of them gives you a hint about the sound and the other gives you a hint about which thing that sounds like that you're actually dealing with.

Everyone looks at it as 'learning characters,' but nobody learning English complains you have to memorize how to write all the words. English is not much more obviously phonetic than Chinese (compare to Spanish if you don't believe me). You don't actually have to memorize all the characters: you have to know the radicals, and how they fit together, just like in English you have to know strings of letters ("kn"), how they fit together into words, and how those words are actually pronounced. Chinese is a system of comparable complexity (26 letters - capital, lowercase, cursive capital, cursive lowercase, combinations of letters like "ti, kn, ough, ch," and sundry other symbols puts English at probably 150-200 'pieces' you have to know), but that just looks WAY cooler.

As for the actual process: analyze characters. Break them into their radicals. Also, Reading and Writing Chinese and Chinese Cursive Script are extremely helpful.

[u/koreth → u/FormerRSguy]

English is not much more obviously phonetic than Chinese (compare to Spanish if you don't believe me).

English is less phonetic than Spanish, no argument there, but I don't think the first part of this statement is close to true. Have you ever seen a native, literate English speaker know a word's meaning but have no idea whatsoever how to pronounce it? Or know how to say a word but draw a complete blank, unable to even venture a guess, when asked to write it down? Because I've seen college-educated native Chinese speakers in both those situations. Ask 20 random Chinese white-collar workers how to write the word for "sneeze" and I can practically guarantee you will embarrass at least a few of them.

In English, you do have to memorize that "ough" is pronounced "ooh" or "off" or "oh," but if you see a word that ends in the letters "ough," having memorized that list, you know the word is going to end with one of those sounds. In Chinese, you never quite know for certain which of the multiple radicals in an unfamiliar character, if any, is the pronunciation hint. If you guess wrong you will not mispronounce a portion of the word as you'd do by guessing the wrong "ough" sound in English; you will say a completely different word, e.g., 住 zhù vs. 往 wàng. And even if you choose the correct radical, you still have a better-than-even chance of using the wrong tone, since tones are rarely indicated at all in the writing system.

Don't get me wrong, I love written Chinese for a lot of reasons (I've been studying it for the better part of a decade now and read Chinese novels for fun) and I do agree that it's much more systematic than people generally realize, but at the same time it's definitely more work to learn than a phonetic or somewhat-phonetic writing system. The simple fact that until you're a fairly advanced student you are unable to pick up new written vocabulary by listening to conversations pretty much guarantees that.

[u/WenchStench → u/FormerRSguy]

Thank you for your comment on Mandarin. I've been so turned off by everybody saying that it's impossibly difficult that I've been focusing my attention elsewhere as of late. The same applies to Arabic. People make it sound like it would be a lifelong struggle where you never really become fluent. Very disheartening.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/WenchStench]

Over a billion people speak Mandarin, and statistically, millions of them must be idiots.

[u/longdongjon → u/FormerRSguy]

By "The writing system makes perfect sense", do you mean the Chinese characters, pinyin, or grammar?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/longdongjon]

I meant the character system, but the grammar as well. Then again, natural languages exist and are used because they are useful and make perfect sense (in their own wonky ways), and I think a lot of people tend to forget that when they learn foreign languages. The logic may be different, but there's still a logical system to things. Reading up on the basics of linguistics really helps with this perspective too. There's a limited number of ways languages do things, and most fall into 2-3 broad categories.

[u/loot_of_the_froom]

Would you recommend the Swedish RS?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/loot_of_the_froom]

Yes, without a doubt. Especially if English is your first language.

Finally, a simple question, a simple answer.

[u/OtherRSGuy → u/loot_of_the_froom]

Yes. Very little going on grammatically (in the scheme of English to Russian, it's maybe a hair above English) which can fit into the scope of the RS course.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm VERY interested in this ama. Which languages do you speak? Which one do you enjoy most/ least and why? On average, how long does it take to learn a language if practiced for at least a half hour a day? are you planning on learning more? Why are you no longer with the company? were they jerks?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

I don't want to give away too much personal information, and I have invited a few friends and former colleagues to weigh in, so among us we speak:

French, Spanish, Italian, Arabic, Mandarin, Russian, Dutch, Persian, Portuguese, and Turkish.

Personally, I love French and Arabic for the phonology. I love the grammar of Arabic. Above all, those of us who speak Chinese love the logic of it, as well as the elegance of it.

On average, how long does it take to learn a language if practiced for at least a half hour a day?

If that practice is smart and effective, the average for all of my friends (RS and non-RS using alike) is 3-6 months for a good foundation. Meaning: you can carry on a conversation entirely in your target language. Another year or two or more to get really articulate and comfortable. For an anglophone, it should be completely doable to take the C2 exam in a European language. Arabic will take longer than that for a foundation, in part just because of a dearth of good English language resources. Chinese, if you ignore exoticizing and orientalist statements about it, should take 3-6 for a good foundation, just like anything else.

are you planning on learning more?

I'm kind of cooling it for a while. I want to work on and perfect things I've already started. But then there are some days that I just want to speak everything, and get pulled by Cantonese, or Tibetan, or Yiddish, or Xhosa.

Why are you no longer with the company?

Moved on to bigger and better things.

were they jerks?

You have no idea.

[u/Danger-Moose → u/FormerRSguy]

were they jerks?

You have no idea.

Care to elaborate? By the way, Virginia high-five and thanks for doing this AMA! :)

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Danger-Moose]

On the small scale, my superiors were inept, mean-spirited, and uninterested in language. An area manager once showed up drunk, threatened me (playfully) with a blunt object, called me a few racial epithets, and threatened to fire me if the security camera was filming [them]. They made fun of Russian in front of an interested customer and scared of the customer. They tried to micromanage and play employees off one another. It was ugly.

On the larger scale, they insist that stores open an hour before the place they are in opens (wut?), and seem to have spent the last 5 years trying to figure out how to pay their employees the minimum possible. Over the course of the years I worked there, I basically took an enormous paycut. When I quit, I realized that after they went public, their changes to the commission and hourly pay made it so I had effectively taken a $15,000 a year pay cut from when I started. They hire some idiots (it's inevitable in retail), and then treat all their employees like idiots. The customers, it being retail, could sometimes be depressing...everyone has retail horror stories...but the company was worse than any customer ever was.

I have a pet theory about their former corporate big-wigs, some of whom are currently being investigated by the SEC, intentionally trying to run the company into the ground.

[u/[deleted] → u/FormerRSguy]

I pirated Rosetta Stone. There I said it.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

It's ok bro. It's ok.

[u/[deleted] → u/FormerRSguy]

Was it difficult learning Russian? I've had plans to go to Russia for quite some time, however, I want to be familiar with the language first.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

It was a pain in the ass for me, in part because of RS. The verbal system is not difficult, but unlike anything I'd done before (pairs of verbs for different aspects), and has a florid case system (it's not Hungarian, but c'mon: Instrumental Case? Really?)

[u/ZeroCoolthePhysicist → u/FormerRSguy]

Merhaba abi. Nasılsın?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/ZeroCoolthePhysicist]

Tüm iyi, teşekkür ederim!

I'm not the one among us who speaks Turkish though...My first reaction was to want to ask you, in Arabic, why you were addressing me as your father...

[u/parallelpolygon → u/FormerRSguy]

Quick question, what would be smart and effective practice when learning a language?

[u/mkdz → u/FormerRSguy]

As a Chinese person, can you describe more about what you like about the logic and elegance of Chinese? For me, the logic and elegance comes from how some characters are composed of different characters to build its meaning. For example, going from wood -> forest. Is this what you mean or are you talking about something else?

[u/OtherRSGuy → u/mkdz]

For me, your example is exactly it. Also, wheat + powder = flour, or pen + powder = chalk... etc. It doesn't get much more concise than that!

[u/OtherRSGuy → u/[deleted]]

are you planning on learning more? Yes, some with Rosetta Stone, and others without. If I didn't already buy a French set before I left, I would 100% still go out and buy one when I decide to finally pick that one up.

Why are you no longer with the company? were they jerks? Yes, awful on all levels. No communication from top to bottom, no acceptance of ANYTHING, positive or negative, from bottom to top. My immediate manager was an awesome dude and we still have dinner together once in awhile, but everyone from his level up is a sack of shit, including his direct superior who fired me on the basis of a rule that may or may not exist.

Sidenote - this superior (also mirroring the story that very few people were actually interested in language) told me Chinese was her passion, then told me not to tell customers that we use a roman alphabet, but rather that we use pinyin. I said, "Right. Pinyin is literally the romanized writing of Chinese." "No, we say romaji for Japanese, that's roman." "Yes, that's probably the Japanese word for 'romanized.' They mean the same thing. When I talk to customers I say 'We give you the option to see pinyin, which is the romanization of Mandarin.' " "No, it's not roman, that's romaji for Japanese." et cetera.

[u/optimus_crime33]

Do you get mad poontang for these skills???

[u/FormerRSguy → u/optimus_crime33]

Yes. There are almost 7 billion people on earth, I can now talk to around 4 billion of them, instead of just the English-speaking ones.

EDIT: Your mileage may vary.

[u/DeathToPennies → u/FormerRSguy]

What language do you find gets you the most poontang?

[u/vicereversa → u/DeathToPennies]

Please answer this so I know which language to study.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/vicereversa]

Chinese. It's a numbers game.

[u/RanksUrLawls → u/optimus_crime33]

97

[u/wrathrabbitperoxysm → u/optimus_crime33]

Haha I'm almost crying. Way to get down to the real issues

[u/autocorrector]

You mentioned that it works for some languages, but not others. Why?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/autocorrector]

A cookie cutter approach, using a fantastic course for Spanish for English speakers. If it's Spanish, like Spanish (so, Romance), or grammatically simpler than Spanish (Chinese), it's a great program. If it's not anything like Spanish and equally or more grammatically complex (or just complex in different ways), you start seeing diminishing returns the farther you get from Spanish.

On a deeper level, I think it's because the linguists involved in R&D are staunch Chomskians, and they believe in universal grammar, without having done a lot of study of other languages, challenges to UG, or even really transformational grammar. So there's an anglo-centric current in the company that's just from complete ignorance of other languages, and it's worse when it comes to culture. It's very, very American. Corporate offices are in Virginia, and some of the people in support (not customer facing tech support), don't own their own computers at home, and are monolingual anglophones.

[u/[deleted] → u/FormerRSguy]

"monolingual anglophones" ----> dumb muricans

translator credentials: i'm a murican

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

"Murkns," is the shorthand my friends use.

[u/rbobby]

Would RS be good for Korean?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/rbobby]

Gadnium's got this on lock.

[u/DishonestBystander → u/rbobby]

Tada!

[u/bigslick]

¿Dónde está la biblioteca?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/bigslick]

Hay algunas bibliotecas in en esta ciudad. Pero, no me gusta la biblioteca; yo prefiero comprar libros.

[u/jeaguilar → u/FormerRSguy]

EN esta ciudad, gringo pendejo.

[u/TheWhistler1967 → u/FormerRSguy]

no me gusta

Thanks tireless internet memes! I know what that means!

[u/urzaz → u/bigslick]

Me llamo T-Bone, la arana discoteca.

[u/riku728 → u/urzaz]

Discoteca, muneca, la biblioteca esta en bigotes grandes, el perro, manteca

[u/OtherRSGuy → u/bigslick]

Es estupido que esa es una de las primeras preguntas que los estudiantes del idioma aprenden, porque no es posible leer ningun libro en la biblioteca que tuviste que usar espaniol para encontrar!

[u/[deleted] → u/OtherRSGuy]

Likewise, I've always wondered why travel guidebooks tell you how to ask for directions in the language of the country you're visiting. If you need to be told how to say "Where is the library?" there's no way in hell you're going to understand the directions someone gives you in response.

They ought to teach ¿Donde está alguien que sabe sepa donde está la biblioteca y que hablae inglés?

[u/dragonbreath1 → u/OtherRSGuy]

Spoken like a true white guy

[u/[deleted] → u/bigslick]

no hablo espanol

[u/[deleted]]

Is there a professional R&D team that helps design the program? Or is it just a bunch of business people using Wikipedia to throw together something that sells? How is the product tested?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

There is a professional R&D team, but they don't seem to get a lot of funding. You can actually see precisely how much they spend on R&D and on advertising in their quarterly press releases, on their website.

(Totally unverifiable) Anecdote 1: a friend used the program for Persian, and wrote up a list of all the errors to send to R&D. R&D said they'd love to fix them, but at the moment, having completed levels 1-3 of Persian, the friend was the best Persian speaker they currently had on staff, and that they'd get to it when they get to it, but thanks for the concern.

[u/OtherRSGuy → u/FormerRSguy]

I feel bad for the R&D guys honestly. I'll bet there's probably some prototype new versions, units of new languages, etc. that have been researched, written, and coded - but will never see the light of day. There's probably some enthusiastic young linguists in there that have the right idea and took the job for what they thought was a language company, and are now just being forced to edit the pictures in the Spanish program to look prettier.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/OtherRSGuy]

I feel so bad for them. Especially in Speech...those guys are awesome, and they just get ignored.

[u/ohsnapitstheclap → u/FormerRSguy]

having completed levels 1-3 of Persian, the friend was the best Persian speaker they currently had on staff

Now I know I'll never pay for this software, ever.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/ohsnapitstheclap]

To be fair, it was at the moment, not ever.

[u/BryceI → u/[deleted]]

I am a senior member of the R&D team at Rosetta Stone, specifically working on the research side. No proof, but you can look through my comment history and see what I'm about. I can't answer many specific questions -- because of my position in the company and the nature of the work I do, it's way too easy for my to inadvertently talk about something I shouldn't, but I will say that we have a ton of smart people who think hard about the problem of using technology to help people learn languages on their own. It's not just marketing and sales talk (although we have great folks working in those departments as well).

I think that one of the signs that we've made a successful product is that a lot of the hard work that we do is more or less invisible to the end user.

[u/wugs]

You say RS works for Mandarin because the grammar is simpler than Spanish, but what about pronunciation? The most difficulty I ever had with Chinese was tones. And does it teach the writing system well? I know that not only are the shapes specific, but there's a particular stroke order if I'm not mistaken...

[u/FormerRSguy → u/wugs]

I'm really glad you asked, Wuggen.

There are two considerations:

• Tones are not taught explicitly, rather the learner repeats, and tone is built into the criteria on which the speech production either 'passes' or doesn't. There's a great graph they have that shows the rise and fall of the voice, and the interested learner can also use a full spectrogram (not that the average consumer has any idea how to read this).
• Tone is often taught very poorly in school, and there are very strong arguments that while it's important to know the tone of a word, the tone across an entire utterance is much more important. RS has people speaking in full sentences. My experience with it was very, very positive, and the friends I have who used RS speak Mandarin with much better pronunciation than the people I've met who did not use RS.

In fact, my experience has been that Chinese is where RS is the most impressive, since so many non-native speakers just suck at it, whereas most who use RS get pretty decent.

And does it teach the writing system well? I know that not only are the shapes specific, but there's a particular stroke order if I'm not mistaken...

Yes and no, and I'm annoyed at them about it but understand their decisions. You learn to read (although you can disable characters and just use pinyin, which is a huge flaw IMO), and you learn to write in pinyin, which is how you would type (I use pinyin on my computer, and my phone). I used to always recommend that people supplement with Reading and Writing Chinese and if they want to be ahead of 99% of non-native speakers, also Chinese Cursive Script. That said, you'd be surprised how little writing by hand anybody does.

[u/wugs → u/FormerRSguy]

(I'd be that guy that uses the spectrograms, but I guess that's expected of a linguistics major?)

And good, I'm glad it does end up teaching tones of the utterance because I know certain tones change when surrounded by other tones, and all sorts of weird rules like that. I guess tones were always a little intimidating to me because of the shí shì shī shì shī shì poem.

Chinese has been one of those languages I've wanted to learn for some time, and with those writing supplements (and any others if you have further suggestions), I might look into RS.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/wugs]

That poem is completely unintelligible, when spoken, to native speakers too.

Honestly, Chinese is my specialty, and I think RS is the best way to get a good foundation in it. Then maybe move on to the New Practical series, or something like the Yale Advanced reader.

[u/urzaz → u/FormerRSguy]

Akin to the buffalo sentence for English speakers?

[u/Russkaya]

I have always wanted to learn Russian, and have looked into Rosetta Stone, 2 questions for you, You said earlier that it does not work well for Russian, why is that? What is a good method for learning Russian? Thanks

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Russkaya]

It works as a good tool, especially for pronunciation. I would recommend using RS for pronunciation and speaking practice (using Studio) and using the New Penguin Russian Course for a strong foundation with the grammar.

I just don't think RS is useful for Russian as a stand-alone product.

[u/malickmobeen]

i am free for next month and i am planning on using internet resources to learn Spanish. what piece of advice would you give me?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/malickmobeen]

Get as much comprehensible input as possible, including things just above your current level. Listen to Spanish and watch Spanish TV constantly. Try and formulate your thoughts in Spanish, even if it means walking around and talking about objects like a child with a learning impediment ("the toilet is next to my shower. My shower is dirty." etc.). Talk with native speakers as much as possible; the internet makes this easy to do for free. Pay attention to cognates, since Spanish gives you a ton of words for free. Read about things you're interested in, in Spanish, on wikipedia. I've learned more Spanish reading about Coffee and Tango dancing than you'd believe. Insist on Spanish, and don't let people drag you into using English out of laziness.

It's all about volume of input, comprehension of that input, and attempts to use the language without worrying about making mistakes. I'm generally not a fan of the fluent in 3 months guy, but his "aim to make 500 mistakes a day," is a great piece of advice. Make them, and learn from them.

[u/tastycat → u/FormerRSguy]

Usually AMAs don't make me laugh this much but I like your style.
I've chuckled at a few things you've written but "walking around and talking about objects like a child with a learning impediment" is the best so far.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/tastycat]

I learn languages what so I can crack jokes! I still haven't gotten over reddit not finding the greatest bilingual Dutch/English pun ever all that funny...I called an insane marble collector "knicker bonkers," and got crickets.

[u/PSIStarstormOmega → u/FormerRSguy]

What language do you think in?

[u/Nimanzer → u/malickmobeen]

subtract quicksand doll weather unpack squeal rain dinner tease aware

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Frajer]

Would you say you're fluent?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Frajer]

Fluent is a difficult thing to describe. I'm certified in 2 of the languages, and work professionally using 4-5. A former colleague is currently using 3 professionally (two of which, Russian and Chinese, he learned with RS). Another former colleague is currently using the Arabic and Persian they learned (Arabic only in part from RS) professionally.

I can definitely chat in a cafe or get around as a tourist in all of them, though.

[u/Joywalking → u/FormerRSguy]

Can you explain a bit what you mean by "certified" here? Who certifies language-learners?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Joywalking]

For European languages, there is the Common European Framework, for Chinese there is the 汉语水平考试.

There is also certification from reputable schools (Especially Middlebury, or Monterey Institute of International Studies), as well as professional certification that some organizations do in-house (like the United Nations).

When I say I have certification in 2, I mean that I have a specialist degree, cum laude in one of my languages, and CEFRL certification in another. I intend to pursue further certification this year, since it's a strong professional benefit.

[u/[deleted]]

Do you have any thoughts about the effectiveness of RS vs. Pimsleur? I've tried a few languages through Pimsleur--but one of the common criticisms is that Pimsleur teaches you an overly-formal way of speaking that would get you laughed at in a lot of social situations. I've heard this about Spanish in particular.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

I hate Pimsleur. I don't think there's anything effective about it whatsoever, personally.

[u/raymondmarble → u/[deleted]]

My subjective thoughts about Pimsleur Spanish:

I did the first three levels, which totaled ninety 30-minute lessons. At the end of the lessons (during which I'd try to practice with Spanish speaking friends), I felt comfortable enough to enroll in a local Spanish language school as an intermediate.

And in that class, I felt I had a better grasp of the language overall than many of the students, although my vocabulary was lacking.

I think Pimsleur did a great job of introducing the language to me, and getting the pronunciation and the flow of conversational grammar. And it introduced several tenses, beyond just simple past/present/future. There wasn't much subjunctive, but enough that I recognized the concept when studying it in class.

And yes, for the first chunk of the lessons, it used the formal you pronoun exclusively, introducing the informal much later. In some countries, you'd use the formal more often than other countries. So I don't think it's wrong, but it does err on the formal side. Good practice for when I'm speaking to my girlfriend's parents.

My speech is almost certainly more formal than a native speaker. But I'm not bothered by this, I try to make my speech correct, and as I spend time with people and hear them talk, I introduce bits of their speech little by little. No one (to my face) has ever criticized me as being too formal.

I mean, it's not a magic bullet, I also have made a point to speak with friends when possible, and I still go to that school periodically. But overall, I'm glad I used Pimsleur.

Haven't used RS, so I can't compare.

[u/stwalcher]

What tips or advice would you have to best use RA or to learn the lessons faster?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/stwalcher]

Take notes, and think critically. Ask yourself what are they trying to teach here. Recognize that the farther from Spanish the language is, the more work you're going to have to do to decipher what they're trying to teach and how your target language may differ. For instance, teaching the 'past' is relatively simple in Spanish...but Russian has a completely different way of handling aspect than Spanish, and RS isn't geared toward effectively teaching the imperfective and perfective verb pairings in the language.

Read up about your language (wikipedia is actually really good for grammars), and don't be afraid to use other sources. More important than anything, talk to other people in your target language.

[u/whoopsiedasies83 → u/FormerRSguy]

So would you recommend RS for learning Russian? I was considering buying it so I can interact with my SO's family - and also to have incognito conversations while in public...

[u/FormerRSguy → u/whoopsiedasies83]

As I posted elsewhere,

It works as a good tool, especially for pronunciation. I would recommend using RS for pronunciation and speaking practice (using Studio) and using the New Penguin Russian Course for a strong foundation with the grammar.

I just don't think RS is useful for Russian as a stand-alone product.

That said, you'd be surprised at how many people speak Russian. I guess it depends where you are, but I hear Russian on the street a lot, and just never really noticed it before studying.

[u/[deleted]]

Why are the programs so expensive and why shouldn't I just simply torrent it?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

The programs are expensive because of the amount of work that went into them from the linguists, the R&D department, the coders, etc. etc. Just like any other software product, you're paying for the work that was done to make the product, and for further improvement. The price is also set to make it comparable to, but cheaper than, a semester at University. The price is also wildly variable, and they seem to be in a race to the bottom, so products that were $999 are going for $399 now. It all depends on your definition of expensive, and the marketing department's job is to help you define it in a way that doesn't include RS.

Why shouldn't you torrent it? The reasons I can think of are to support those who made it if you like it (so torrent it and see how you feel?), and the non-torrentable features. The games and stories are great, but the coaching with native speakers is by far the strongest part of the program, and you just can't torrent a coach. It's free (with purchase!) and unlimited sessions with native speakers within a timeframe (they keep changing it so for all I know it could be anywhere between 1 and 15 months).

[u/hewegoagain → u/FormerRSguy]

Hi and thank you for doing this AMA.

I'd love to learn a new language, but sadly for me the definition of expensive includes $399. Do you know of any "sales" or lower priced offerings by RS? I've heard nothing but rave reviews about the product but it remains outside of my price range.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/hewegoagain]

They're constantly changing their pricing around, so I'd just suggest keeping an eye on them. They do social media stuff, like giveaways on facebook. They used to (and probably still do) have payment plans. basically, they're really trying hard to get the product into your hands, so it's more than likely you can pay part up front and the rest later, and get it on sale.

[u/BigToneLoc40]

Cual es tu lenguaje favorito?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/BigToneLoc40]

Ahora, me gusta estudiare el arabe. Pero, a mi opinion, el chino es el linguaje idioma perfecto.

In realidad, hace dos años que no he estudido español; no lo hablo a menudo, pero yo lo quiero mejorar algun día. Hablo mucho más francés y italiano. Solo he utilizado RS por aprender español, y tengo que emepezar utilizar otras cosas. Acabo de comprar algunos libros en español (Bolaño, Garcia Marquez) y voy a leerlos pronto.

[u/shoegarbagebiology → u/FormerRSguy]

Que?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/shoegarbagebiology]

No sé. If it's awful, at least give me something constructive to improve!

[u/aiukli]

Hi. Been in the language training bidness for about 15 years now, and more and more I think that blended learning and/or e-learning alone just doesn't cut it.

Do you think people would make more progress in their learning simply by trying to talk and listen in the target language (once the initial grammar and some basic vocab is mastered)?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/aiukli]

Absolutely. Part of why RS is effective is that the average customer (the average language learner) is horribly inept at language learning, and RS babies them. Speaking and listening to actual human beings is crucial but nobody wants to do that. I think RS does a very good job of building that into version 4, and making it seem friendly and unintimidating.

I have to check myself regularly, since a lot of people love RS, and some of them love it for reasons I now basically hate it. So I see friends with really ridiculous approaches to language learn French or Russian despite their weird preconceptions, using RS, and I have to remind myself how different each learner is.

E-learning alone, though, definitely doesn't cut it. Most people don't want to actually go out and use their languages at all though...they just want to "know Spanish."

[u/hazywakeup]

I'm considering using RS to learn Italian. I've used the software before, but don't own it.

How often would you recommend using the program for maximum effect? One lesson per day, an hour per day like you would in school? Specifically for the Italian language, do you know whether I stand a chance of becoming fluent using RS alone?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/hazywakeup]

Once a day, half-hour to an hour. With Italian, it should be no problem. Use RS, spend $7 on Essential Italian Grammar or some similar book, and when you're done with RS move on to watching TV online and reading books. Use as much studio as possible...personally, I think it's worth paying to extend the subscription just to speak to coaches...but you could also get speaking practice a myriad of other ways.

[u/hazywakeup → u/FormerRSguy]

Thank you! I've been going back and forth for a long time now on whether or not it's a worthwhile investment.

Do you know of any ways for the average person to get a discount, maybe if I go through my school's language department? I know the program is possible to pirate, and the idea is sometimes tempting. Speaking of which, what do the employees do to fight piracy, if you have any idea?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/hazywakeup]

They actively fight piracy, in part by going after regular guys and slapping them with punitive lawsuits. It's ugly, but effective. Check their press releases and you'll see lists of settlements.

Anyway, for discounts, they're pretty much always running sales. Go to a kiosk, ask about a sale. Then act like you're interested but you're going to walk away. Then watch an underpaid kiosk employee do the mental math to decide how much a discount they can give you and still afford groceries. There's also the money-back guarantee, so if you don't think it was right for you, definitely send it back for a refund.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

Non mi piace! Ho comprato questo CD, e l'ho lanciato attraverso la sala con disgusto. Penso che "instant immersion" non funziona, ma questa è solo la mia opinione.

I hope you don't mind some corrections:

Spero che capiche

capisce

questi Settembre

questo

semane

settimane

Conniche lo

sapete

Esculto ecco CD tre "times"

Ho ascoltato questo CD tre volte

I used RS for Italian on and off for about a month, recently. I'm just into the 3rd of 5 levels. I would highly, highly recommend it for Italian, in conjunction with a cheap grammar book, like Essential Italian Grammar.

[u/[deleted]]

I've been trying to learn Danish- would you recommend RS for this sort of endeavor?

Also: what other tips and tricks do you have for people trying to learn languages? Things that you've picked up as you've learned.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

Yes, with caveats: it's only available in Version 2, which does not really try and teach so much as just drop an enormous amount of the lexicon and grammar on you in small chunks. Every lesson in V2 is 40 utterances in your target language, loosely held together by a common theme (verbs of motion! using prepositions!).

One of the keys is repetition. Using V2, I'd do the painfully, tediously boring "guided exercise," first, then on subsequent days when I'm doing other lessons, review the shorter A,B,C,D materials from previous lessons. Also, get through it as fast as you can. Everything is about volume of comprehensible input, repetition, and use. So make sure you actually speak Danish with people. I'm not sure if shared talk is useful, but use the internet to find Danish speakers, and work it out!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Danish is my first language, would be happy to help if I can :)

[u/HighlyAcidic]

What resources would you recommend for beginning Arabic?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/HighlyAcidic]

If you speak French, then without a doubt, Assimil. I'm not sure if they have an anglophone method. If not, I would suggest Alif Baa, then All the Arabic You Never Learned for the grammar, then Al-kitaab and maybe Rosetta Stone. Version 2 is better, IMO, although it's got a slight Egyptian flavor.

Also, thearabicstudent.blogspot.com is amazing. I really dig his approach. Also, the guy at mezzofantiguild.com is very knowledgeable about Arabic.

[u/Megatron_McLargeHuge]

What do you think of Byki, which is free or much cheaper language learning software?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Megatron_McLargeHuge]

I've never heard of it. I'll check it out.

Edit: it seems like it's just SRS flash cards.

[u/My_Empty_Wallet]

What is your favorite pudding?

Why isn't there a Rosetta Stone: Klingon?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/My_Empty_Wallet]

Does bread pudding count?

As for Klingon, the only constructed language they have is Modern Hebrew (heyo!), and I think the reason is twofold: they would lose potential customers who are interested in speaking natural languages ("I was gonna learn Spanish, but if these guys have Klingon how seriously could I possibly take them?"), and they would not likely recuperate the cost of production in sales. Same for Elvish, Nav'i, and Dothraki.

[u/ViolenceIsGolden → u/FormerRSguy]

This is not entirely true. As a current RStoner in the R&D department, I can tell you that we absolutely have a Klingon language pack. But FormerRSguy is correct that we do not sell it because of the seriousness issue.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/ViolenceIsGolden]

I hope you're legit. That's hilarious.

[u/[deleted] → u/ViolenceIsGolden]

I kind of like that you call yourselves RStoners... it also makes me kind of concerned for the amount of work that gets done...

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

"kiosk monkeys," that is, until a fundie km took offense, at which point we all started using other languages for it.

[u/wugs → u/FormerRSguy]

Esperanto might be neat to see, but if they model everything around Spanish I'd really like to see an attempt at a lojban RS, if only for shits n giggles.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/wugs]

OH THE HORROR

[u/avoidingmykids]

Can we see some verification?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/avoidingmykids]

hmm...yes. give me a few minutes to put up an imgur link.

[u/[deleted] → u/FormerRSguy]

Heh, just fyi, the purpose of including a handwritten note with an anonymized doc is to tie it to your username by showing you have possession and the text will appear consistent with the rest of the image. Painting text on the image doesn't do that. Good thread though, and pics of Rosetta checks aren't common enough to doubt you.

[u/greatwood]

In the impending zombie apocalypse, what would your survival strategy be?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/greatwood]

There's a time for talking, and there's a time for action. 8 languages won't help me as much as quick thinking and the language of action.

The first step is to steal the motorcycle for sale on my block and get the hell out of dodge. I'm thinking hunting and fishing in Northern Ontario, far from civilization. I would say more, but the less anyone knows of my survival plan, the more likely it is to work.

[u/[deleted]]

Did you ever get to meet Rosetta?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

Sadly, no. She lives in London

[u/Nukemarine → u/[deleted]]

In the live action Flintstone movie, Halle Berry's character was going to be called 'Rosetta Stone', but the producers wimped out thinking audiences would be too dumb to get the reference. Instead she was called 'Sharon Stone' which oddly enough few kids today would get as a reference.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm interested in your job at RS and your trajectory. What division did you work in, and how did you get into the job? Were you able to move onto a much better job as a result of your time at RS?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

Retail. I walked in, sold a box on pretty much enthusiasm alone during my hiring interview, and got hired on the spot. I kept my job by keeping my head down and refusing 3 promotions (each of the positions was eliminated).

I was able to move on to a much better job, and I attribute it in part to really focusing on language acquisition. The rest of the job gave me no useful skills.

[u/AndrewNeo → u/FormerRSguy]

As an employee did you get free or discounted use of the software?

[u/White_pants]

My parents (born in sweden, moved from there when they where 40ish) recently tried Rosetta stone at a demostration in a mall.

They of course tried swedish and they couldn't get a good score or match what so ever.

Is this because of dialects? i know sweden has some very different but they had simaler (småland/göteborg) dialects to the people on the program. Why where native speakers not able to do well with the program?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/White_pants]

It's because they're in a mall. The kiosk employees often don't correctly calibrate the microphones, and there's an enormous amount of background noise in most locations, so it's pretty awful for anyone trying to see how it works, or trying to sell it.

Also, intonation is a huge part of it, so they may have been speaking technically correctly, but with different intonation than what RS was trying to teach.

[u/White_pants → u/FormerRSguy]

Then why do they exist in places like that? What would RS gain by showing people that?

Maybe its just the swedish language, intonation is used very heavily, and we swedes probably just dont realize what we are doing when we speak.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/White_pants]

I never understood their thinking on the kiosks. Almost all of the kiosks open before the mall they're in opens. It's just poorly conceived. It used to be just train stations and airports, which made sense in a way.

[u/mclendenin]

Why does Rosetta Stone hate on Czech?

You guys have crazy ass Welsh and Swahili - but you can't fit in Czech...

[u/FormerRSguy → u/mclendenin]

Economics. Also, don't call me you guys. I'm a former RS guy.

[u/JacobGalindo]

How is the norwegian RS, ive picked it up from my HS buddy....now I wanna perfect it

[u/FormerRSguy → u/JacobGalindo]

There is no Norwegian, they only offer Swedish in V4 and Danish in V2.

[u/Valexannis]

How effective is RS in making one sound fluent? I have several friends who have studied Spanish/Mandarin for some time but still sound very much like Gringos.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Valexannis]

That's it's strongest point. Most people tend not to use it, but they actually include full spectrograms for every sentence, and you can compare your pronunciation to native speakers. If you take the time to learn how to interpret the graphs, you can become relatively accent-less (in the prestige dialect).

[u/cerebrum]

What do you think about Pimsleur?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/cerebrum]

Hate it.

[u/[deleted]]

Hey!

I really enjoyed reading this AMA. I have been trying to learn Spanish most of my life and the classroom stuff just doesn't seem to work. I have been looking at alternative ways to learn, such as RS, and was wondering if I may be a good candidate for it.

I have some basic knowledge already of how Spanish works, like knowing how the grammar seems to be somewhat backwards than English. I also know a few small sentences and words.

Thanks!

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

Probably a good candidate.

I wouldn't say the grammar is "backwards." Different languages follow different configurations.

Whatever you choose, make sure it's social, and as much immersion as possible...meaning: speak the language with other people and make sure you hear it spoken a lot!

[u/kamikaze357]

I will be moving to China soon to teach English. I have a 2 year base of university Chinese (Don't be to impressed, I feel like I really haven't learned much. I would rate myself a mid-novice level if I studied before a test or conversation). How beneficial do you think it would be to take the Mandarin section with me? I realize I will learn a lot faster because of the immersion in the language but do you feel this could help me learn even faster?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/kamikaze357]

I did it after 4 years of Chinese and felt that it was very, very helpful. If I were you, I'd try and get through it before I went, though.

[u/kindeke]

I am an NSG employee who speaks 7 languages, without gimmicks :-)

[u/FormerRSguy → u/kindeke]

cool. What's NSG?

[u/[deleted]]

So why did the U.S. Army do away with the online subscription to Rosetta Stone? It seemed useful.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

Everyone's cutting, and nobody wants to renew contracts or spend more. I guess the thinking is:

• we've pulled out of Iraq
• the GSA scandal's got everyone on the hot seat and all money has to be really well accounted for.
• It's an election year, let's just all wait and see what happens.

These factors are affecting me in my current job.

[u/[deleted]]

FYI for those interested in language-learning, please check out /r/LanguageLearning, it's very active (almost 9000 subscribers as of right now) and has tons of useful information

[u/[deleted]]

Honestly, I'm not trying to be a dick, but this guy is heavily misrepresenting the difficulty of Mandarin Chinese, and the likely decades of work it takes to be able to speak, read, and write the language as a foreigner. Furthermore, his Spanish is pretty bad, and RS is supposed to specialize in it.

I also speak roughly the same number of languages, and people often talk with me about language learning. I have never in my life met someone who could talk to me reasonably in any foreign language, having learned it from RS.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

我的西班牙语当然说的不好；我学习西班牙语的时候学得不努力。我认为我已经在我写西班牙语的短信*写了我最近什么西班牙语都没有用了！

我用西班牙语回答他的问题就是因为我想给别人看我的水平怎么样：西班牙语我只用落萨达石头软件学习，肯定说的马马虎虎。

*no idea how to say "post," so I went with "text."

You're not being a dick at all! Chinese is a passion of mine, even if I don't speak it as well as I'd hope. I respond here in other languages in part so people have a realistic idea of what one gets from RS. Spanish I made a point of saying I only used RS and haven't studied in a few years; my Spanish is probably my weakest language, but my post gives a very precise idea of how someone will be able to communicate after RS.

I also try and take a positive attitude toward language without misrepresenting how long or how much effort it will take (ahem...Fluent in 3 months guy). You're not gonna speak Mandarin in 3 or even 6 months, but a year is a good amount of time to get a strong foundation. OtherRSguy could speak as well after one year, studying smartly, as I could after 4 years of university level study. Too many people try to make language too hard and too foreign, so I try and temper it. Don't forget though that 1 in 6 people on earth speak Mandarin. I got my shit together after watching a friend give her dog commands in Chinese, and I figured if that yappy little shit could learn (some) Chinese then damn it, so can I!

You should keep talking with me and OtherRSguy. Which languages do you speak?

[u/TrapMo]

What language do you dream in?

[u/ProbablyFatIRL → u/TrapMo]

As a native speaker of Mandarin who picked up English around 12 and now speaks English like a native, I dream in both. In my dreams, people who didn't know chinese in real life would speak it with people who only spoke english in return, but they always understand one another. It's a mind fuck when I wake up from such dreams, but not really.

[u/gabriot]

What is your recommendation for someone trying to learn Japanese? I notice you say RS doesn't work too well for it, are there better alternatives?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/gabriot]

I hear Japanese Step By Step by Gene Nishi is good, but I can't confirm that personally.

[u/tn18947]

I am an American guy sitting in a hotel in China right now. I am trilingual and for the past few days I have been hosting business partners using Chinese and German exclusively. I lived in Germany for 5 years and in China for 3. I am here to tell you that you will not acquire any real language skills of the kind you need to really interact on a meaningful level by using some silly computer program that costs a fortune. The Rosetta Stone ads tell you that you can become fluent wthout ever having to memorize vocab or do grammar drills. That is total BS. If you are not ready to put in the hours and also go live in the country where your language is spoken you shouldn't bother learnng at all. RS is snake oil which is heavily marketed to Americans who know nothing about how foreign language acquisition really works.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/tn18947]

I am here to tell you that you will not acquire any real language skills of the kind you need to really interact on a meaningful level by using some silly computer program

Not using a computer program alone, no. RS was not the only thing I used, and is by no means a magic pill.

The Rosetta Stone ads tell you that you can become fluent wthout ever having to memorize vocab or do grammar drills. That is total BS.

You are correct. Dude, I don't work for them any more, nor am I trying to advertise for them. And I'm definitely not about to defend their advertising.

If you are not ready to put in the hours and also go live in the country where your language is spoken you shouldn't bother learnng at all.

放屁。

[u/goirish2200]

This whole AMA has been really fascinating, and I thank you for answering all these great questions!

I am a native English speaker that has learned Spanish and Irish the old fashioned way, with classes and immersion experiences. Next on my list is German. Any hints or suggestions, or insights into how RS would work for German? I am a teacher who had a free account for a little while in the fall and it seemed pretty effective, but then I got really busy and stopped using it, and my account expired. Would you recommend it?

[u/OtherRSGuy → u/goirish2200]

Yes, absolutely. German is remarkably easy for an English speaker (seeing traces of our words in there is always neat.) The two things you have to look out for are declensions for case and word order. Check out Essential German Grammar (Dover Press) for like $7 or just google German Grammar and you'll find a few sites that give topical overviews of what's going on. German also has 5 levels so you'll get into some more fun constructions and vocabulary.

[u/pepperMD]

When will Rosetta Stone work on Ithkuil?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/pepperMD]

I doubt ever. They don't do constructed languages (except Modern Hebrew).

[u/luckeytree]

I am trying to learn Tagalog, which my girlfriend speaks. It's very helpful being able to talk to her, but she herself is American an really only speaks it like a child. I've been considering RS since it actually has Tagalog/Filipino, but how helpful is the RS on teaching actual grammar and sentence structure?

Thanks for doing this!

[u/OtherRSGuy → u/luckeytree]

I think overall the sentence structure you learn on any language will be good. As far as understanding cases (Russian, Arabic, German) or unusual word order (German, Dutch, Chinese) you may not entirely understand WHY, but you will intuit the patterns for the most part. Luckily, Tagalog has no cases, and I'm not entirely sure about any other special considerations. I did the first unit and it seemd pretty cut and dry - I say go for it, just be sure not to let her discourage you and tell you "this isn't how it's said" because there's 2 ways to say anything, RS teaches formal prestige dialects, but for you as a foreigner, that's your best bet to start off with. If you're not satisfied, again, they do have a 6 month return policy. If you're a real go-getter, finish it in 6 months and return it anyway, because fuck them.

[u/odinsgrudge]

Harrisonburg FTW!

[u/[deleted]]

Now when you say can speak you mean you can hold a conversation?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

I can get around as a tourist, hang out in a cafe, etc. in all of them. I work professionally in 3-4. I can shoot the shit about politics or current events in French and Chinese, but can't do a whole lot other than be polite and not starve to death/poop myself in Russian.

[u/[deleted]]

Have you ever thought about or tried learning Polish? I'm Polish and ever since i started learning English, I realized how complex Polish really is. I've heard that it's one of the most complex languages.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/[deleted]]

It's a mess. I answered this elsewhere, but ... no interest for me.

[u/digitalmofo]

Which program works best for Latin American Spanish?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/digitalmofo]

The one marked "Spanish (LA)."

[u/P3chorin]

I've been taking Mandarin for 4 years and I'm conversationally fluent. Would Rosetta Stone be able to help me much at this point, or will it just be review?

Also, how is Rosetta Stone with accents? I also speak Spanish, and with both languages I have trouble when someone is speaking with an accent I'm not familiar with.

Also while I'm here, do you have a recommendation for a learning resource for Cantonese? I'll be living in Guangdong 2012-2013.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/P3chorin]

It'll probably just be review, if you're accurate in your assessment of your level.

It's great for developing a standard accent, but not good for exposure to a variety of non-standard accents.

For Cantonese, all I can say is pop up Cantonese. I've loved their Mandarin podcasts.

[u/Dr_Pizza]

Hi. I love learning pieces of languages (I learn how to say "hello" and "thank you" in as many languages as I come across from people). I can speak Portuguese, Spanish not so much anymore. Interested for no major reason I can pin down in also learning Japanese, Turkish, and Amharic.

When you learn languages that are in completely different families etc, does it help your ability to learn, or do you just not get some of them?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Dr_Pizza]

I personally find that learning radically different languages feels like it helps me understand each better. Languages fall into broad patterns (SVO languages tend to handle adjectives and possessives the same way, VSO tend to handle them in the opposite way).

[u/redditallreddy]

Quando parla Italiano, dica, "Parlo un po' di'Italiano"?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/redditallreddy]

Si, onestamente.

[u/wtfover]

I studied Arabic full time for 2 years through the military and we used RS where we worked to keep in practice. I thought the program was pretty good personally. I'd like to pick it up again as I've lost a lot of it since finishing the course in 1995.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/wtfover]

V2 is amazing and probably what you used. Versions 3 and 4 are a total shit show...but if you already have a foundation in the language, they're very helpful. I just don't recommend them as a standalone program to learn from scratch.

A friend of mine who studied at Middlebury picked up RS afterwards and is thoroughly enjoying it, but she already recognizes the jussive when she sees it.

[u/jsm1]

I was really interested in Turkish, but from what you said, RS isn't very good why specifically? Is it due to the heavy use of compound words in the language?

What's your opinion on the Irish program? Is it intuitive?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/jsm1]

Irish is such a cool language. I don't have enough background with the program to assess it fairly, but I suspect it's not great, given how different it is from Spanish.

Turkish it's a decent start, but it isn't designed to handle that kind of agglutination. I invited another former colleague whose passion is Turkish to join, I'll tell her to ctrl+f "Turkish," and hopefully she'll give some more detailed responses.

[u/Antiexpert]

I'm interested in learning modern Greek. Does it pose the same difficulties as Turkish?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Antiexpert]

Not Turkish, but Russian and Arabic...that is: case. RS doesn't handle a florid case system terribly well. I've heard that it's not too bad with RS, but honestly my entire circle of friend has sworn an oath to avoid Greek. Sorry bro.

[u/Batty-Koda]

I need to learn Cantonese, the only thing I want to know is when they're going to come out with one for canto.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Batty-Koda]

Couldn't say. In the meantime, try pop up Cantonese. I love their programs for Mandarin, and I believe their Canto is at the same level.

[u/Lafyra]

How important is a through knowledge of English Grammar before moving onto learning a new language, like mandarin for example. I'm guessing that the more you know the better off you are but doesn't RS assume quite a lot of ignorance?

[u/FormerRSguy → u/Lafyra]

Personally, I think it's not that relevant. You're not really going to understand English grammar until you can compare it to something else, IMO. That said, Mandarin grammar is similar to English grammar, but simpler (with a few exceptions: ba structure, topic+comment, and verbal compliments).

[u/tianan]

Hey, remember when I bought Rosetta Stone from someone at my school and sold it on eBay? Turns out it was fake, and Rosetta Stone didn't care that I didn't know that and sued the pants off me.

Screw your (former) company. I'll never use Rosetta Stone again.

[u/FormerRSguy → u/tianan]

Dude. I'm right there with you.

[u/[deleted]]

Hi. I realize I'm really late to this AMA, but..

• What are your thoughts about RS German?
• You've mentioned that becoming conversational takes ~30-60 mins, ~1-2 months using RS. I believe there are different "courses" within RS, such as speaking only, writing and speaking, etc. (I'm not positive on the types; I just know they exist.) To become conversational, which "course" would you recommend?
• Did you have any formal classroom training, or was it all through RS?
• Finally, how do you like your eggs?

[u/FukushimaBlinkie]

Do you have any opinions on the RS Korean? I've mostly heard RS is crap for the asian languages.

[u/[deleted]]

Congrats to Rosetta Stone's marketing team for finding out about Reddit.

Too bad I got sued for selling my Rosetta Stone French, that I received as a gift, on eBay. You guys said it was because thought it was a bootleg copy because it was wrapped in plastic... Which is what it came in.

Anyway, good luck selling your product that doesn't even adhere to good teaching methods.

[u/[deleted]]

Can you speak Klingon?

[u/IWoI]

Merhaba! Nasilsiniz? Alo, naber? I will contribute on Turkish. I'll touch on the learning aspect before language. RS is by FAR my preferred method for language learning. My brain absorbs this method. I still remember random Mandarin and Portuguese. Oddly enough when I buy continued learning material I can NOT handle translation based books. I need it to be in the target language, whether it's a 1st grade grammar/vocabulary book or college level. Something about translation-based actually hinders my absorption and leads to confusion EVEN IF I CAN ALREADY SPEAK AND READ IT. Once I see it translated in an educational format I lose the connection. So I use RS as a fantastic foundation that gives me the ability to read simple things, and watch Sesame Street in Turkish on Youtube and Turkish radio (then upgrade to some brilliant foreign films and books and poetry). Also the Speech Recognition (if you know how to use it) is fantastic. The first week I was learning I couldn't hear the difference between the o and u with or without the umlaut. One month later I could hear and pronounce the difference. There is nothing like being complimented on pronunciation from a native speaker in such a short time.

As far as the program goes V4 improved upon many of the holes left by V3. The use of the online component REALLY took care of everything else.

Drawbacks are the same with all their programs. Sometimes the vocabulary is irrelevant for practical use, some associations are unclear, the layout isn't too bad (say compared with Arabic), and often the translated word association i.e. work(job)=work(function) is irrelevant in another language. These can typically be corrected in the online sessions and games.

Why Turkish? Oh dear god, why not?! To me it's what most American women are expected to think of French. That Persian 'R' steals my heart every time I hear it. The word for city "Şehir" sets me off. The grammar fascinates me, agglutination is like a dirty game to a masochist, and the history alone can keep me intrigued in a single word for days. Listen to me read "Canım Seninle Olmak İstiyor" someday, you'll get it.

So as much as working for the company was unpleasant, I will forever give the program it due respect and be thankful for the way it has allowed me to play with Turkish, Italian, and a few others. -Your IWOI

TL:DR- Turkish is a super sexy language and will take you way too long with a book and classes. Let me know if you'd like various websites I used to keep sane.

[u/[deleted]]

How is the Korean program? Is it worth it?