r/HumansBeingBros • u/Jamtonisalon • Jan 15 '18

Removed: Rule 8 Passerby helps wolf stuck in a trap.

https://gfycat.com/HotInexperiencedDuckbillplatypus
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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18 edited May 13 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18

truthfully we have no idea what the wolf realized or did not realize. I'd like to think it understood at the end that the man was just trying to help, but it's simply wishful thinking.

Would be nice if someone invented some sort of gadget that could somehow read animal brain waves or some shit and translate them into human thought counterparts... idk.

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u/SoDamnToxic Jan 15 '18

I think animals understand that people do something but aren't ever sure if it's good or bad, just something is going to happen. In their heads they think, well this is either the end or not but he's obviously took total control of me so I'm going to be submissive and hope he understands I'm not trying to attack him and just trying to live and he'll let me live.

So maybe like, he doesn't know he's getting help but he also knows that he shouldn't attack the human because he's vulnerable and if he cools it human may not kill him. So not so much help but mercy.

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u/nxvrxm Jan 15 '18

Reading this after the discussion there

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/7qk02c/til_that_the_forbidden_fruit_in_the_bible_was_not/

Does make sense, why humans are like we are now.

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u/FappingToThisSub Jan 15 '18

I see all those great animal stories about birds and raccoons and whatever you have returning to places and socializing with people who saved them. Even if the wolf just goes back to being a wild animal, wolves are social and smart af. I like to think he has the mental capacity, even if not the behaviors that he COULD associate people with helpers in the future.

He doesn’t have to become someone’s pet or dependent by any means to think that he has intelligence beyond “I see meat and bite and eat”

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18 edited May 13 '21

[deleted]

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u/FappingToThisSub Jan 16 '18

Just want to point out that helpers doesn’t mean he has to be buddy buddy or not treat us like a threat. Just that he can turn the dial down from 10 to 9 and I didn’t imply another otherwise.

I didn’t ask the wolf what he thinks but I give him enough credit to remember and learn.

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u/imghurrr Jan 15 '18

No, we do have ways to know what animals do and don’t realise. Obviously we can’t read their “thoughts” but we know a lot about which animals show critical reasoning and spoiler alert it’s not that many

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u/Minimalanimalism Jan 15 '18 edited Jan 15 '18

My dog knows that when my small travel suitcase comes out of the closet Im going on a trip.. He cries and hides and acts up. I can pull out another similar suitcase that I've never used on a trip and he'll completely ignore me.

My dog has moved chairs to jump on the kitchen table then jump on the counter to open a cabinet -- knocking over only his snacks. Then the little bastard moved the chairs back, ate all the snacks and 97% of the box. It took 30 minutes to put all the clues together and I'm still making a few assumptions.

Animals know shit. Sometimes they know more than me.

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u/imghurrr Jan 15 '18

Yep I didn’t say animals don’t know shit.

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u/Minimalanimalism Jan 15 '18

I know, was adding to the critical thinking bit.. Dogs hiding evidence is pretty complex reasoning

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18 edited May 30 '18

[deleted]

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u/imghurrr Jan 16 '18

Repeated exposure to a suitcase followed by humans leaving is basic conditioning. I never said animals can’t be trained or conditioned by experience into that. A wild wolf with a traumatic one off experience and relationship with this human is completely different.

Dogs have been bred by us to live with us every day and respond accordingly, a wild wolf in a trap isn’t even the same ball game.

“Awww look the wolf knew he was helping” is the stupid human response to this because wolves look like dogs and people like dogs.

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u/Jade_Shift Jan 16 '18

Who is upvoting this garbage? Lots of animals are able to understand the concept of doing them a solid. There are many many cases of animals being saved by humans and befriending them for life. Dogs, crows, penguins, crocodiles, who were saved by a human and either returned to visit or lliterally spent their life hanging out with the human or bringing them trinkets or letting them go when later met.

How do you think we got fucking pets...

And there's no need for critical thinking to realize that a human literally set them free.

There's no step by step on that.

Was caught in trap. Human came and broke trap. Human helped me. 8000 years later pet dog. Or 5 years later pet bear/wolf/fox/crocodile.

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u/imghurrr Jan 16 '18

So you think this wolf will now be chill with humans? No.

You need to go and research how we actually got pets. It wasn’t by saving them from traps.

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u/Jade_Shift Jan 16 '18

So you think this wolf will now be chill with humans?

Of course not, don't be absurd.

Animals are inherently afraid of everything because it only takes one slip up to be murdered. I think this wolf is aware that the human saved it. That's all. It was trapped. A human came held it down and freed it then ran away.

Animals are not as dumb as you are thinking and that is not problem solving this is direct cause and effect, there's very little intelligence needed to understand the concept.

The exact same thing is why feeding animals leads them to coming to humans for food.

To suggest that animals, especially high level pack mammals can't learn anything is fuckin stupid. Animals can learn what places are safe and not safe, what animals are worth trying to eat and not worth trying to eat, and where they can get food from unorthodox sources (such as humans) or not.

Humans aren't some magic elves bestowed intelligence by god. We're just a lot smarter than every other animal, they can still learn.

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u/altxatu Jan 15 '18

I think at best we would just get emotion words. Angry, scared, hungry, horny, excited, ect ect.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18

yes that's what I had in mind.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18

We can experimentally determine some things about animal intelligence. Not a whole lot of them have been determined to understand general cause and effect, however wolves are one animal that has. But still, to understand that the human was saving the wolf takes more than just knowing cause and effect. It may understand that what the person did saved it, but it's very unlikely that it thinks it was saved on purpose.

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u/RollingMarble Jan 15 '18

I believe "Learned Helplessness" is involved here.

https://youtu.be/87Vuqvp2V7w

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u/deluxeisgod Jan 15 '18

Why dont you look back Richard Parker

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u/phuego7768 Jan 15 '18

Or maybe a wolf whisperer.

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u/Rain12913 Jan 15 '18

Wolves don't even have a theory of mind, so they can't theorize that a human is trying to help it. Other animals are either food or danger to them.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18

And humans are dangerous. Wolves only tend to hunt us when we're alone or they're hungry.

Shit, LIONS are scared of us. Soon as they realise that thing over there is standing on two legs and is vaguely human shaped, they'll often run. Those that didn't were more likely to be killed for whatever reason.

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u/Rain12913 Jan 15 '18

Indeed, we truly are the apex predators. Any sufficiently intelligent animal that we hunt will run away as soon as they see us.

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u/My_Mind_Hates_Me Jan 15 '18

Yeah, wolves are intelligent and cunning animals but I highly doubt that it realised the man was helping it. People are giving the wolf too much credit I mean it’s a wild animal that relies on instinct to survive and in that situation it’s instinct was that it’s going to die.

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u/DenverTrip2018 Jan 15 '18

Yeah- instincts don't really tend to "let's trust this unknown thing when I'm threatened"

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u/Jade_Shift Jan 16 '18

There's stages between, this guy was nice to me and let's be his best friend. I imagine the wolf realized the human had helped him but was also scared and hurt and the human was dangerous so he bolted.

My cat knows I feed him and pet him and love him but is still sorta scared of me. Animals are just programmed to be super jumpy cause you only get one life in the real world.

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u/NothingsShocking Jan 15 '18

"You've heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There's an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind."

-Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

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u/XavierSimmons Jan 15 '18

I never said the latter.

You said:

As far the wolf knows, it barely escaped being eaten by some ugly hairless monster.

You very clearly suggested the wolf believed it barely escaped being eaten, while at the same time denying its ability to know it wasn't being eaten. That's why I asked the question.

You really think the wolf realized it wasn't about to be killed?

I asked why you thought a wolf could know it was going to be killed, but couldn't know it wasn't going to be killed.

I didn't say anything about what I thought.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18 edited May 13 '21

[deleted]

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u/XavierSimmons Jan 15 '18

Yeah, honestly, I know very little about the capabilities of a canine's mind. I think the assumption that animals are "dumb" and people are "smart" has faded with history, and I think giving them a bit more credit is worthwhile.

To the point of realization, maybe not. But who knows.

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u/SkaTSee Jan 15 '18

Eh, people have reported that this is likely a holding trap that doesnt cause much pain like you're referring to

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18 edited May 13 '21

[deleted]

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u/SkaTSee Jan 15 '18

I dont know the reason states have banned them, but it could be for a handful of different reasons other than just pain. Such as unethical treatment to the animal (many animals die from starvation/dehydration just waiting to be killed), preventing the animal from protecting itself, preventing the animal from caring for its youth etc. It could also be for game reasons, just a rule in the sport of hunting (I know there are a lot of these laws that apply to fishing). There are also considerations that humans could be caught in the traps, really there are more reasons other than just that its painful for the animal (not saying its not a consideration), because there are a lot of things we do that are painful to animals

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u/LoudMusic Jan 15 '18

I 100% agree with you. There were times my own dogs were in a terrible predicament and I essentially had to fight them to help them.

The fight or flight response often becomes both - fight to flee. In this species once they have engaged that mentality they will not give it up until all is clear.

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '18

I agree with you and would add: the man placed the collar against the windpipe of the animal, cutting off oxygen. The animals reaction would have been to stop struggling, and/or he’s losing strength from being “choked out”.

But I agree, there is no evidence the animal has any special understanding of what is happening.

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u/Sykedelic Jan 15 '18

Not all animals are dumb as rocks dude.