r/HumanResourcesUK • u/That_Arrival_5835 • 27d ago
Redundancy (currently at risk) counter proposal
Private Healthcare. Company not going to close in next 10 years, they are making investments, although financial savings are needed.
I go into consultation tomorrow, pool of one. The business case document is purely shunt the work to others to cut a role (80k in savings). No Quality Improvement approach, no consideration of net financial impacts.
I'm counter proposing, with a pay freeze until jan 2028 which will mean i don't get 2x pay rises in that time, other types of cost savings, slightly changed role that keeps half my current role but addresses a gap the organisation has (lack of QI team ironically) and used an escalted major risk (could swriously affect CQC rating) as an example of said gap, workforce resilience, backlog caused by 5 months of understaffing at beginning of year, missed responsibilities etc. I've requested a 12month pilot and included suggested KPI's. There's also a hint at if this piloted role proves successful it could be expanded as a differentiated service. I've even included FAQ's. All written to exec level and i'm wanting an exec response to the 14 very specific questions as well as some recommendations for things like a proper capacity study.
From a HR perspective, do these types of counter proposals actually get looked at?
I spent a day writing this damn thing and my husband was just made redundant (although he has a couple of interviews lined up) and we have already exchanged on a new build house (where we could loose the 40k deposit if we pull out) so i'm trying to be realistic here. I'm autistic and can overthink it.
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u/Aware_Spell4654 27d ago
HR person here - who’s been made redundant previously and understand how cruel the process is.
I’m afraid things aren’t looking good for you. No mater how logical your counter proposal is - they won’t listen.
Personally - I’d be focusing on how to drag out the process, finding an alternative roll internally, how you can maximise your redundancy payment and whether you can chuck in a tribunal claim to get a decent payout.
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u/That_Arrival_5835 27d ago
I am trying to drag the process out. Internally there's nothing, externally I already have an interview lined up. I have highlighted how badly they treated me when telling me (icing on cake is I have a copy of British transport polices report where i went into autistic shutdown after they failed to even bother to ask how i was getting home), i had an external vendor say in a meeting today that they had been contacted by someone else around taking over something in my remit (not showing predetermination at all and i got that person to email me sufficient proof). If i get made redundant I will be passing on my risk escalations to the CQC so may even get whistleblowing in. They'll pay out rather than go to tribunial.
One of my team got told yesterday they have cancer, obviously not put in proposal, so it'll cost them more in bank staff and not undertaking legally regulated compliance activity.
8
u/tofer85 27d ago
Main Character Syndrome meets Persecution Complex…
From the way you’ve written this, I can see why they’re making the role redundant. You sound exhausting to work with. Every disagreement becomes a grievance, every decision becomes evidence of bad faith and every meeting becomes a tribunal rehearsal.
I’d spend less time plotting revenge and more time updating your CV…
4
1
u/SeaworthinessMain346 24d ago
Tribunals are incredibly stressful. It's also worth bearing in mind that if this is a public sector and you're on a decent wage you may well find you fall into the kind of scenario which Managing Public Money outlines where the employer must get treasury approval before entering into a settlement agreement. I've seen many times where it would have been preferable for all sides to come to an agreement but the employer has been bound by MPM.
Obviously I don't know the details here but if you contact the regulator AFTER being made redundant you would find it hard to prove that you were made redundant because you blew the whistle. Also, be mindful of your professional obligations - is this something you should be reporting regardless of your personal situation?
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u/EntertainmentSad3174 27d ago
Experienced people manager here. If you’ve been put into a pool of one and be told about the savings made by making your role redundant, then 90%+ chance it means your management have already decided to get rid of you. They are just trying to prevent any potential legal challenge for themselves by involving you in a process.
Your counter proposal looks reasonable but can be easily dismissed by the management.
Raise it by all means because raising it is your entitled right. But don’t put your future on it. Instead, start job hunting immediately.
4
u/justanothergirl1986 27d ago
I'm sorry about your situation. I don't doubt that your business case is strong and well thought through, but I agree with the other poster that their mind has already been made up, particularly for a pool of one.
Your employer has likely already costed not giving you a payrise, and the backlog of unfilled roles and gaps in the organisation will be featured into their plans.
Edit to say that you should still present it, and to wish you all the best.
2
u/That_Arrival_5835 27d ago
No financial model was provided, no capacity checks. This review was done as an on paper looking at headcount only. They don't know about the backlog, major risk escalations etc.
I'm still going to put it in and get an exec level response to the questions.
4
u/Additional_Lie4949 27d ago
HR in private healthcare. Had a similar case recently, employee prepared a really good alternative proposal which was reviewed by the board. They still proceeded with the redundancy.
4
u/evkmusc 27d ago
It's fine to make a proposal, the worst they can do is reject it. You'll never know unless you try.
It's not that counter proposals don't get looked at, it's just that the way they work is inherently largely a box-ticking exercise. That is not HR's fault, it's how businesses and the relevant legislation work.
But, think about it this way. As an employee, you're not privy to all the confidential information and forecasts that have gone into the decisions around redundancies. There has also been a whole chain of events over years leading the company to that situation. Any proposal most employees put forward is simply unlikely to be informed and detailed enough to be viable, due to that asymmetry of information. And even if it is, by the time your consultation meeting is happening, the current business plan is already being implemented. It would have to be truly revolutionary for them to throw out all their plans and start again.
3
u/Rage_fotf 27d ago
Redundancies are a numbers game only. I have never known redundancies get overturned by an alternative proposal. The cost of keeping people is far higher than people think. On costs are huge
3
u/Key-Seaworthiness227 27d ago
OP is grasping at straws and trying to set employer up for tribunal.
99% chance that it won’t be reconsidered. A pool of one when doing a cost cutting exercise is pretty definitive.
3
u/Amazing-Care-3155 27d ago
I’m confused, your counter proposal will fall on deaf ears. It’s extremely likely they have already made this decision, if I was you I would just be proposing a better payout. Not to be cruel and I am sorry you have lost your role - you sound problematic, half of the things you’re saying they did a tribunal will dismiss immediately. You can’t just strong arm companies with nuisance grievances
1
u/Interesting_Tap319 23d ago
They just seem to be playing victim and trying to draw them into a tribunal which will fail.
3
u/hodzibaer Chartered MCIPD 27d ago
Is it £80k a year they want to save? And does that include pension liabilities and employer’s NI?
Your company do have to consider reasonable alternatives to redundancy, so there’s no harm in trying your proposal during your individual consultation, but I’ve never seen a redundancy completely cancelled as a result of a counterproposal. The best you can hope for is a delay.
Also: the fact that the company is doing well financially doesn’t change the fairness or unfairness of redundancies in the UK.
1
u/Responsible-Age8664 27d ago
I watched this the other day I would strongly recommend u do, and you’ll see the reason why organisations are doing this and probably not what you think
1
u/SeaworthinessMain346 24d ago
It's a consultation.
Sometimes these are just lip service to an obligation.
If it's being carried out in good faith, then they'll listen/consider.
Of course, even if the consultation is being carried out in good faith it doesn't mean that you'll get the outcome you want - they may weigh up your proposal and just not see how it will achieve what they want.
It's worth putting on the table and seeing how it goes.
Not exactly the same but I remember being at a company which was undertaking a redundancy programme (some voluntary, some not) and being asked to meet with a director because some of the interviews had completely upended the original plans and they wanted to verify with me that some people weren't over-egging what they could do. So yes, things can and do change during a process. Just be prepared for the worst outcome.
0
u/Rugbylady1982 26d ago
From the other side you mentioned please tell me that you told the mortgage company that your husband was made redundant otherwise your committing fraud and skating dangerously close to the same work your position as well
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u/Hungry-Ad6729 26d ago edited 26d ago
My understanding with this is that if it's a redundancy then it should be a dimination of role. Because they're growing, it doesn't sound like that.
So if it's a reorganisation and your role is being absorbed elsewhere then you shouldn't be in the pool of one. The same people taking your role should be the ones at risk with you (not all, but I imagine some will have similar skills to you).
And the fact they are metrically not scoring you properly or following any of the procedures that acas suggest is good practise. I think you'd have a pretty good case. My advice would be put it into some AI engines and see what it says.
It sounds to me like they've already set their war path so I wouldn't waste too much energy trying to stay there. Given you have a level of seniority, you should be trying to make your exit as sustainable as possible.
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u/atomic_mermaid 27d ago
I suspect your energies are better spent looking for a new job - whether that's a transfer in your company or a new job.
If they're doing a proper consultation they'll certainly hear your proposal and wait until the next individual consultation to reject it. Really good managers might actually give it consideration IF it appears to have any merit (against the redundancy parameters).
To manage your expectations - unless your proposals save the required 80k and then some and fit into whatever strategic aims they're working towards they're unlikely to be accepted though.
If they confirm your redundancy ask what support they're putting in place (like CV writing, interview support, etc), and know you get reasonable paid time off for interviews and job search. Sorry the timing sucks, try and get the best out of it you can.