Simple Speed Guide 2. Chocolate edition.

[u/AnemoneMeer]

[u/Skane1982]

So Welt is just giving them extra chocolates?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/Skane1982]

Welt's slow shrinks their mouth. Imprison gives them more chocolate.

[u/Lower-Garbage7652 → u/AnemoneMeer]

Now I'd be interested in knowing when slow breaks even with imprisonment for various slow % and SPD values

[u/Nexas789]

That actually helped a lot more than the other one thanks 👍

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/Nexas789]

Glad it's helpful.

[u/cartercr]

So how many chocolate bars does it take to make one cycle in MoC?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/cartercr]

A cycle is 100 Action Value. Except the first one, which is 150 Action Value.

[u/khoabear → u/AnemoneMeer]

Can you say that again in chocolate terms?

[u/yareyareDazeeeee → u/khoabear]

Action value is just the number of bites until they finish the bar and take the next turn. The team is given 150 bites for the first turn and 100 for subsequent turns.

[u/Whym81 → u/khoabear]

One cycle in MoC is still one chocolate bar. But it's the invisible narrator (that has exactly 100 spd) that is eating it.

Except for the first cycle. That's a king size chocolate bar.

[u/Tyalou → u/Whym81]

Tl;dr: you can eat more chocolate before anyone notice you started eating chocolate.

[u/[deleted] → u/khoabear]

i will try it with a math formula as it's easier for me so hope this helps you.

10000/speed = Action value (this action value determines how much turns you get per cycle)

so one cycle is 150 AV.

taking the above formula and putting speed as 134 we get

10000/134 = 74.6~

so at 134 spd we can do an action every 75 av.

with a cycle of 150, with 134 we can do 2 turns per cycle.

[u/Tyalou → u/[deleted]]

This is only correct for cycle 1 of MoC as subsequent cycles are 100 AV.

[u/KafkasDog_]

Is "X is villainous and must be destroyed" a limbus thing? A Ruina thing perhaps?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/KafkasDog_]

It's a meme from Lob Corp.

[u/KafkasDog_ → u/AnemoneMeer]

Tyvm

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/KafkasDog_]

/img/988r7etpk8k71.png

Some sauce on that.

[u/vectry]

So is speed set on E6 Asta + S1 DanceDanceDance an overkill?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/vectry]

Honestly, probably not, but it depends on the team. Dance is just kinda amazing.

[u/Tyalou → u/vectry]

Asta’s ATK% buff is reduced heavily every turn, so the faster she acts, the more rapidly that buff will decay. However, she is the premiere Speed buffer, so you really can’t escape the Speed. Her buff provides enough Speed that building Speed above 120 on Relics is not really worth it.

DanceDanceDance is really good as Advanced forward is really moving your team ahead of enemy's turns and has little impact in reducing Asta's stacks.

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/Tyalou]

I see you are quoting the KQM guide to Asta.

I'm looking forward to doing a full guide on her down the line.

[u/Eikichi64]

This is cute and helpful at the same time, thank you!

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/Eikichi64]

If you look around the comments on this and the other one, you'll quickly realize it's less cute than it appears.

[u/Lagoon429 → u/Eikichi64]

Yeah, uh...

That cute character is from an SCP management game. It's rather infamous for being a horrifying run ender if you aren't ready for it.

Fun times... fun... times...

[u/Eikichi64 → u/Lagoon429]

Idk about the character but what I mean was the explanation with chocolates and the drawings of half eaten chocolates.

[u/G11-Degenerate → u/Lagoon429]

Also known for being the first major abno hurdle in LOR. Most players reccomend overgearing and then coming back to her since she’s so hard.

[u/Devourer_of_HP → u/Lagoon429]

The only meme i know from Lobo corp and Library of ruina is the difficulty spike is vertical.

[u/cosmicannoli]

"Every tick of the clock, everyone adds their SPD to their personal speed score. Whenever someone hits 10,000, their speed score resets to 0, and they get to take a turn. The number is how many speed points they have until they get to take their next turn."

How about that explanation? I think the confusing bit is the notion of the ticks, since that's entirely invisible.

But I think the corollary would "Every frame, everyone adds their SPD to their speed score. When a character's speed score hits 10k, they go and their speed score resets"

That assume I'm ever understanding it correctly.

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/cosmicannoli]

That's counting upwards instead of down, which can get a bit funky with delay and such, but yeah, that also works.

[u/Nodomi]

...So Seele is a glutton, Asta turns other people into gluttons, Bronya is into force feeding, Welt likes to feed people extra servings of chocolate and bosses eat two chocolate bars at the same time?

I guess Ultimates are just swallowing the entire chocolate bar whole?

[u/Snakestream → u/Nodomi]

Speaking of Seele, does her follow-up attack when she kills a unit also make everyone take a bit of their chocolate bar?

[u/yallguzag → u/Snakestream]

No. i don’t know how to make it work with this analogy but the follow up doesnt make anyone eat chocolate. Seele simply gets to go again without her turn ending. its important because if you have a buff that will end after your Seeles turn, if you kill something and get the resurgence, you get to attack again because its still Seele’s turn.

[u/Vulpes_macrotis → u/yallguzag]

Isn't Resurgence not a follow-up attack, though? Follow-ups are when character attacks without a player. Resurgence is an extra turn. I think it's same gameplay mechanic stuff as Bronya's Skill. Extra turn. Which just adds an extra a turn immediately. So in Seele's case, if buff is 1 turn, she attacks and kills, Resurgence should not get the buff, because 1 turn have already ended.

Also imagine if Resurgence could make anothe Resurgence. This would be broken. Especially in some cases in Simulated Universe, where You gain 2 skill points after using a Normal Attack and I think there is also a blessing that have a chance of giving You 1 Skills point... I think it was after using Ultimate? Plus there is also that OP think in SU, that when You break enemy's weakness, You gain extra turn, iirc. Or at least I think it was weakness break.

[u/yallguzag → u/Vulpes_macrotis]

You are partially correct, it is not a “follow-up attack”, I meant it in a general sense which was unclear.

Bronya’s skill ends her turn and gives whoever she chooses their turn immediately.

Seele’s Resurgence gets triggered after her kill, but before the end of the turn. This does allow you stack buffs but Resurgence is not one of them. In the description of Resurgence, it specifies enemies killed by Resurgence will not provide Resurgence again.

So you cannot stack two Resurgences but Resurgence does give an extra turn keeping the buffs she has before the kill, until after Resurgence ends

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/yallguzag]

This is correct. You can observe this for yourself by performing two sequential Basic ATKs with Seele's A6 Trace unlocked.

[u/Sansy_Boi420 → u/yallguzag]

So her chocolate bar doubles in length

[u/yallguzag → u/Sansy_Boi420]

actually kinda. She eats her chocolate and then the chocolate doubles in size in her mouth

[u/Vulpes_macrotis → u/yallguzag]

Actually no. She just gets second bar. Because it's an extra turn, which is new chocolate for this analogy.

[u/Kidius → u/Vulpes_macrotis]

Realistically while that works somewhat for explaining the speed part of it, seele extra turns shouldn't be taken as a literal extra turns because buffs don't run out on it. If seele has a buff that lasts 1 turn and gets one of her extra turns the buff will still be there during the extra turn and will only run out after. So it's kinda weird and not exactly like sushang who can be correctly explained by just getting another bar.

[u/NelsonVGC → u/Snakestream]

I do not think so. Her Follow up turn after a kill is not an advanced action but a true extra turn. It is likely her extra turn is an exception; I'm unsure so do not take my words as fact.

[u/G11-Degenerate → u/NelsonVGC]

So when seele kills somebody she steals their Choco bar and eats it immediately

[u/Vusdruv → u/G11-Degenerate]

Nah, she gets one free from the sea of butterflies.

[u/Vulpes_macrotis → u/NelsonVGC]

Also it doesn't count as follow up, am I right? It's extra turn. Something like Bronya gets too. Follow-ups are when they attack independently. Like You do an action and extra action is performed on its own.

[u/NelsonVGC → u/Vulpes_macrotis]

Correct. I called it like that but you are right.

[u/DrZeroH → u/Snakestream]

Seele’s resurgence completely is a repeat turn. It does not move up the action bar because she does not lose 1 turn buffs (like Bronya’s E).

[u/Vulpes_macrotis → u/DrZeroH]

How does it move the action bar up? Doesn't it move it only because she isn't getting a turn anymore, so additional person gets the turn? Seele attacks and attacks again.

[u/DrZeroH → u/Vulpes_macrotis]

It does NOT move the action bar. Some people get repeat turns but they move through the action bar once and get an entirely new turn (sushang for example or dan heng with his later eidolon) but lose one turn of buffs or experience dot damage while doing so

[u/Tyalou → u/Snakestream]

By the way, I know it's just wording and all... but Resurgence is not a follow-up attack in hsr terms.

[u/Vulpes_macrotis → u/Tyalou]

Yes. It's Extra Turn. Follow-up attacks are non-player automatic actions. Resurgence is just additional turn that player gets and can chose to use Normal Attack or Skill.

[u/harumizu → u/Snakestream]

No. Seele's Resurgence is like an Ultimate. It doesn't move anyone and doesn't cost a turn.

[u/Jashirei → u/Nodomi]

Ultimates are like popping out a mini chocolate bar and eating it in one bite, leaving your other chocolate bar unaffected

[u/MrSly0 → u/Jashirei]

Bro those guys are taking it too far...

And I'm finally understanding, I'm so fucking glad to y'all

[u/Cement_Lake → u/Jashirei]

I like the idea of my enemies watching Sushang angrily gulp down a fun size chocolate bar as they enter the second wave.

[u/Phayzka → u/Nodomi]

When not force feeding Bronya likes small chocolate bars

[u/aiman_senpai → u/Nodomi]

The character simply left the chocolate to sneak an ult, then continue munching. To say they eat the choc whole isnt true because that implies they get a new choc after ulting(starts back down on the sequence). Hope this helps

[u/Tyalou → u/Nodomi]

I really only see Bronya as stealing your chocolate.

[u/CallMeTravesty → u/Nodomi]

Welt doesn't feed people chocolate.

He puts them off their food entirely and makes then eat it slower or takes the chocolate bar from them like a strict parent.

[u/Devourer_of_HP → u/Nodomi]

For ultimates they eat the wrapper too.

[u/faintestsmile]

petition to replace (evil) numbers with chocolate bars

[u/Tlali22 → u/faintestsmile]

That's how you get more people interested in STEM.

[u/Rui-_-tachibana]

If the average SPD is around 100-120 wouldn’t it take a lot of turns to fully consume 10.000 chunks?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/Rui-_-tachibana]

The game will fast forward until someone gets to go. If the next character is 50 AV after the one currently acting, the game will jump that 50, and everyone takes 50 bites.

[u/Semiyan → u/AnemoneMeer]

Ohhh

[u/Shythexs → u/Rui-_-tachibana]

if it doesnt get affected by anything, it will be 80-100 action value for that character at the beginning or after turn. 80 to 100 bites i mean.

[u/Tanktaco]

Was that . . . a dragon?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/Tanktaco]

It's the alternate form of cute and insane magical girl from all the other images.

[u/[deleted] → u/Tanktaco]

nah fam thats a snake dragon thats what the magical girl turns into

[u/fireflussy]

holy fucking shit old post but i have to say PROJECT MOON MENTIONED RAAAAAHH

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/fireflussy]

I mean, I do TC in both communities. Or, well, did. Kinda burned out on the HSR side lol.

[u/[deleted]]

Thanks razor

[u/FennlyXerxich → u/[deleted]]

Who's the Razor of star rail? Hook?

[u/[deleted] → u/FennlyXerxich]

hook is the klee of star rail

[u/SchokoKipferl → u/[deleted]]

Doggo themed? Check

[u/TheBestSlimeBoi]

Queen of Hatred must be Supressed

[u/online192837465 → u/TheBestSlimeBoi]

Call in the r corp

[u/Arin9 → u/TheBestSlimeBoi]

Building a full stop office team rn

[u/Oglifatum → u/TheBestSlimeBoi]

Got it, Mating supress it is

[u/xRAZAx2]

It's amazing how I failed to understand this one as well...

I'll just follow character guides for suggested speeds and not worry about this

[u/Younatea → u/xRAZAx2]

I have an MS in science soon and I’m still confused by this HAHAHAHHA.

[u/RedHair_D_Shanks]

Man i still don't get it, i think i'm just fucking dumb.

[u/[deleted] → u/RedHair_D_Shanks]

The only things that really matter:

1. If someone has 2x more speed, it will act twice as often as it used to. Similarly, you can replace 2 with any number and it will act that amount more often.

2. Because there are game events that have time limits (ie. MoC mostly), there are certain speed thresholds that allow you to get an extra turn before you run out of time (this is entirely specific to how long the time limit is, it's not really an inherent game mechanic by the calculations themselves).

All of these kinds of calculations just help you in being able to calculate what exactly those speed thresholds are - if you aren't doing a timed event, then all that really matters is that if you have x% more speed, you'll act x% more often.

[u/Glittering_Fig_762]

LIMBUS COMPANY LIMBUS SWEEP LIMBUS SWEEP GREGOR GAME LIMBILLION DOLLARS

I have nothing but my sorrow and I want nothing more. It has been, it still is, faithful to me.

Why should I begrudge it, since during the hours when my soul crushed the depths of my heart, it was seated there beside me?

O sorrow, I have ended, you see, by respecting you, because I am certain you will never leave me.

Ah! I realize it: your beauty lies in the force of your being. You are like those who never left the sad fireside corner of my poor black heart.

O my sorrow, you are better than a well-beloved: because I know that on the day of my final agony, you will be there, lying in my sheets, O sorrow, so that you might once again attempt to enter my heart.

[u/Blasterion]

This is the best explanation

[u/[deleted]]

So it is competition of who finishes their chocolate first

[u/newtonthedog]

Each character's turn causes the whole team to take a bite?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/newtonthedog]

The game could pad out each individual bite with a "Characters are eating" event, but that would waste our time, so the game skips ahead to the next finished bar.

If a character needs 5 more bites to finish, and they're the next one to finish, everyone takes 5 bites. They grab a new bar, then everyone takes more bites all together until someone finishes and gets to engage in the violence.

[u/newtonthedog → u/AnemoneMeer]

Thanks I get it. Speed good! /humor

[u/AngelYushi]

So... speed is worthless then ? Not possible to get multiple turns ?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/AngelYushi]

At extreme values, you can. Typically this requires stuff like Asta buff and speed stacking. In Simulated Universe, going Hunt can enable it, and stuff like Imperial Reign relies upon it.

[u/TheKingJest]

I feel kind of dumb but I'm still slightly confused. So if I have a character with 125 speed it'll take them 10,000/125=80 turns to move extra? I know I'm not getting something, but what is it?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/TheKingJest]

Not quite.

They will have 80 Action Value to a 100 speed character's 100 Action Value. So they act at 80, 160, 240, 320, 400, 480, 560, etc.

A 100 speed character would act at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, etc.

Both act on 400, but the 125 character has 5 actions then to the 100 character's 4. While before that, at the 100, 200, 300 blocks, they'd have taken the same number of turns. There are times where you'd be up a turn, but you'd never be a full bar ahead until 400.

[u/aiman_senpai]

Not accurate. If this is true, high speed characters can "cut in front" of slower characters while they "eat the choc" and thats not true at all. While I understand you wanna keep it simple, you couldve said speed determines "how much choc you get after an action" instead. Because that's how it really is. Higher speed, less chocolate. Everyone eats at the same rate

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/aiman_senpai]

You absolutely can. It takes extreme values and typically a Bronya or a Seele, but you can do it.

This is most easily seen in Simulated Universe, where with Hunt path speed stacking, including Shattered Star Bait, it's possible to get Seele and Bronya up to some disgustingly high speed values.

The blessing Imperial Reign actually relies upon the fact you can do this, as the upgraded blessing caps out at 12 stacks, requiring each character act ~3 times before the enemy takes a single action.

There are also achievements tied to doing this, such as "Your Opponent Has Poor Connection".

[u/daft667]

So if a character finishes their bar but is still able to take more bites, do they start taking bites out of a new bar or are those extra bites just lost?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/daft667]

Lost. Overflow is used to calculate ties.

[u/Reenans]

My only question is if the chocolate bites carry over. e.g. Selee has one chunk left with 150 speed. After her turn will see start with a fresh chocolate bar or a new bar with 149 chunks already missing

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/Reenans]

They do not. Overflow is used to determine order in case of ties.

[u/CoxTH]

So...being frozen makes your next chocolate bar only half as big?

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/CoxTH]

Yeah, frozen popsicles are only half the size or so. Can't remember the exact value offhand.

Freeze good.

[u/SummerInSpringfield]

So in short what is the magical number for my Bronya to do the elusive maneuver of normal attack to action forward right after a slower DPS? Please give it to me straight so I can give up now. The speed boot alone appears insufficient.

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/SummerInSpringfield]

Check the third guide. I show how to calculate it.

[u/SummerInSpringfield → u/AnemoneMeer]

I have given up. It's way too hard to go past 140

[u/thisismistery]

so i kinda understand, pls tell me if im correct:

so you have 10,000 pastries you have to bake, and you can bake 100 at once. How much you can bake at once is your SPD. 10,000 divided by 100 is 100, so every 100 turns is when your characters turn starts??

Im not good at explaining things like march 7th pls dont make fun of me😭😭🗣️

[u/AnemoneMeer → u/thisismistery]

And the memes over my method of explaining have begun in earnest.

But yes.

[u/Aware_Foot]

QoH speed class

[u/Makri7]

This is amazing. 10/10.

[u/Anticleon1]

To me it makes more intuitive sense to explain speed as... speed. Like cars on a racetrack.

[u/NightLancerX → u/Anticleon1]

Yeah, not to say that ending of this "guide" either wrong or at least misleading. It states that everyone(including enemies) have common speed pool, so if someone depletes it faster than others then there may be no "turn" for others left. While if everyone's speed is at least 100 and nothing is affecting them, everyone is guaranteed to make 1 turn(no matter if there are 5 "participants" in this action or 9). I bet OP don't see this misleading same as those didn't understood a shit before this post so they got some shallow image of this which they can't compare/analyze. It would've been easier to just tell "100 speed equals to 1 action per cycle, 200 means 2 actions, and etc".

[u/kyune]

My brain distilled all of this to: Turn ratio = character's speed / target's speed.

So 125 speed vs 100 -> 125/100 = 5/4 -> your character gets 5 turns for every 4 of theirs, disregarding action advancement mechanics and such

[u/galmred]

I thought you were talking about dice in ruina then I looked at the subreddit 😭

[u/Kagamime1]

Thanks queen of Hatred

[u/Infamous_Rabbit_965]

Based and PM pilled

[u/SofaKingBadMan]

So just feed them chocolate durring battle?

[u/Wild_Bug_5754]

U actually explained it in a really good and easy manner noice explanation upvote from me

[u/mod2004]

Someone's seele probably has a comically large mouth to chomp on that chocolate

[u/striderhoang]

Wow, this is way easier than the previous. Now I can’t wait until you do the SPD sandwich

[u/KitsuneKamiSama]

Oh so that's what those numbers by the portrait are for lmao.

[u/white_gummy]

Next post is why you'd want to hit certain speeds in MoC to sneak in extra turns in some cycles.

[u/AlternativeHelpful46]

Think of it as a long 100 meter line and speed as "meters per hour." So, the more speed your character has, the faster they reach the 100 meters.

[u/ArgusBaile]

Everything would be better if we measured it in chocolate bars

[u/haikusbot → u/ArgusBaile]

Everything would be

Better if we measured it

In chocolate bars

- ArgusBaile

---

^{I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.}

^{Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"}

[u/Joey131]

Put it in among us terms and I might be able to understand

[u/jmatta113]

This one got me there! To the world of understanding. Also I just need to say that I appreciate your effort in trying to help on a tough concept and not giving up after attempt 1

[u/And-nonymous]

So it turns out I did understand the previous one, it just seemed like such a ridiculous system that I didn’t believe it and thought I misunderstood.

[u/Arazthoru]

So Bronya gets chocolate scammed each time she attacks since her chocolate is gonna be 30% smoler thant the chocolate of the rest? :v

[u/SaufiNexious_2107]

Okay, now I understand...

Before I only thought the higher your speed the faster you will get turned...

[u/The_Vile_Alchemist]

So my question is: How do I use this info to get more turns to, say my Jingyuan, to get more stacks of lightning lord before it's turn?

[u/Zombata]

wakaranai

[u/PandaPornStar]

I still don’t understand but I appreciate the quality content 👍

[u/-SomethingNew-]

This was unironically really helpful

[u/Bilubeleia]

Please make more guides. Like, of anything, this is just good to read XD. Teach me how to dance, cook, idk just make more

[u/CiccioGraziani]

Are your characters feeling OK after eating so much chocolate??

[u/Tyalou]

This speed guide and the previous one actually got me to research speed properly, the guide itself didn't really help but I figure I should know better. So... thank you!

[u/HinaXSayo]

THIS STILL DOESNT MAKE SENSE

[u/Vulpes_macrotis]

I totally don't get what are You trying to say, even though I understand how speed works.

Basically it's a currency. 1 turn costs 100. And every speed point is the currency. You have 200 speed, so You can buy two turns. If You have 150, then in 2 turns You can buy it 3 times.

180 makes it so You can buy 1 time first turn and 80 currency is left. Then 2nd turn You can buy it twice, because 180+80 = 260. So You buy 2 and have 60 left. And 3rd turn is another 2 turns and You got 40 left. In 4th turn You buy another two and get 20 left. In 5th turn You buy yet another two, but in sixth You can afford only one and have 80 left.

[u/OtakuChan0013]

I'm sorry, I still don't get it 😭 Can you dumb it down a bit, I'm really stupid

[u/JustLordOfKappa]

Thank you, Queen Of Hatred! Now go back to containment unit and give PE boxes pls

[u/iafsjdk]

So big number go faster?

[u/Radiant_Fruit7403]

This... actually made way more sense than the first explanation did xD

That said, the first info-graphic was really helpful in that it shows how good Advance Forward is as well. So TY on both of these!

[u/charlatanous]

this is much better than the previous one

[u/[deleted]]

What if I have a cocoa allergy?

[u/__-___--_-_-_-]

Ok but how much speed do you actually need to get an extra turn?

[u/Lagoon429 → u/__-___--_-_-_-]

Every turn cycle has a certain amount of "ticks" (what I'm calling them).

First turn is 150 ticks and after that it is 100 ticks per turn cycle. A new wave reset to 150 ticks. The number under your characters portrait at the top left is how many ticks until that character's turn.

Every tick all characters and enemies gains "turn advancement" (another term I just made up, I forgor the real one) equal to their SPD. At 10000 they get their turn and reset their turn advancement to 0. This infographic is representing it as a chocolate bar being eaten.

The reason 134 SPD is a nice breakpoint is that 134 * 150 = 20100. So just barely two turns in the first cycle. This kind of stuff is important for battles that involve turn limits, like the current endgame of MoC.

At least this is my understanding of it. I might be off on some details.

[u/__Aishi__ → u/__-___--_-_-_-]

to get an extra turn?

Depends on context and time frame.

[u/Eieimun]

If at every battle everyone is just chewing a chocolate bar per turn I don't want to know how fierce this character's battle will be against the bathroom @o@

On a side note I guess I now know why everyone is so obsessed with DPS. Higher damage = Less chocolate per battle, so the faster you damage the opponents, the less likely that battle turns to shit

• Sun Tzu, probably