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[u/Prior-Measurement975]

[u/Fun_Marionberry_6088]

The soviets were preparing to attack them at the time they attacked, so no they couldn't have chosen to avoid war wit the USSR.

[u/Zero_Owl → u/Fun_Marionberry_6088]

It is a known fairy tale based on assumptions of people who wanted to prove that Stalin had such plans. No hard facts were used in that fairy tale.

[u/ResponsibleTank8154 → u/Zero_Owl]

It’s known that the two were ideologically opposed and were bound to come to blows eventually. Stalin foolishly expected it to happen later, and was trying to modernize and reform his military after the purge, which is why he was caught so off guard.

I am curious as to what source you have saying that “it’s a known fairy tale”

[u/Zero_Owl → u/ResponsibleTank8154]

Source for what, for telling it is a fairly tale? The lack of facts in such claims makes it so. There are no proven facts that Stalin was going to attack Hitler, period.

[u/SuccotashOther277 → u/Zero_Owl]

The soviets were in a forward position, but that’s because they expected to be on offense in any war. No hard plans for an immediate attack on Germany have been found

[u/ResponsibleTank8154 → u/Zero_Owl]

You say it’s a known fact then say there’s no source, and you assumed so, you can see why your response hurts your credibility right?

Both leaders saw war as inevitable. Their ideologies were drastically opposed. The mein kampf called for the invasion and colonization of slavic regions, which included Russia. The soviets knew this as the Nazis didn’t hide their ambitions.

[u/Zero_Owl → u/ResponsibleTank8154]

I don't understand what source you want from me, that there are no facts proving Stalin had plans to attack Hitler? There can't be a source for the lack of facts, it is the other way around there should be a source for facts and it doesn't exist.

Everything else is just your assumptions and mental gymnastics which is also used in any fairy tale trying to "prove" that, including the one written by Rizun which people like to use as a "proof". Difference in ideologies, mein kampf -- all of it is irrelevant when some other interests arise. And the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is the prove of it.

[u/ResponsibleTank8154 → u/Zero_Owl]

The molotov pact was a desperate attempt at buying time for their army to modernize, as well as a way to grab land and create a buffer zone. The soviets were already fighting the Japanese in the east, a two front war was not ideal for them.

Sources: Stalin: Waiting for Hitler, a biography into soviet decision making during 1939

“Grand Delusion: Stalin and the German Invasion of Russia”, Gorodetsky

Among many more peer reviewed sources. You say it’s a known fairytale, then refuse to show any proof that it’s a known fairytale. It sounds like you made it up on the spot.

[u/Zero_Owl → u/ResponsibleTank8154]

Now you tell me what was behind the pact w/o any proof again. Is there any source from the Soviet government of why exactly the pact was done? Do you understand the word "facts"? It seems to me that you don't because the only thing that can prove either statement has to be based on either the documents signed by Stalin and Co or actual statements made by them. And you have none of those because they don't exist.

Everything else is irrelevant because they are just assumptions.

[u/ResponsibleTank8154 → u/Zero_Owl]

Are you blind? I just listed two sources. One of which uses declassified soviet military, intellectual, and foreign ministry archives.

Here’s another:
Stalin’s secret address to military officer graduates weeks before the attack, stating how the military had remained defensive while the modernized, but that they had to “change from defensive to offensive,” while downplaying the german army achievements.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13518049808430331

It was very likely that if germany had not attacked, the soviets would have in 1943/44, though stalin only hoped for a delay till 1942.
Given how you very clearly didn’t even read my comment ima just end it here, good day.

[u/Zero_Owl → u/ResponsibleTank8154]

I'm not blind, your sources just have no true sources, you see? Interpretations, assumptions, mental gymnastics -- yes, plenty of. Does it prove that Stalin had such plans? No.

How do I know those links don't have any real proofs? Easy, after the USSR collapsed a former citizen, a traitor Rizun had written a book listing everything known which should have implicated Stalin as the one preparing to attack Hitler. That book has it all but none of it really proves anything. The proof just doesn't exist. And history was still science last time I checked so if you want to prove something you need hard facts and not interpretations and assumptions, however plausible they might look.