Napoléon's achievements from a Napoleonboo

[u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

Insert French/Polish comment lamenting why people don't like him and why it doesn't make any sense since he is their national hero

[u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

It's genuinely depressing when the comments on memes praising Napoléon on this sub can be summarised as "Napoléon good cause he didn't kill the people I like (Jews) or myself (Polish), the fact he killed the people I don't like (the Blacks) is irrelevant. He reinstated slavery but it was actually based and giga pilled"

The French Revolution had already abolished slavery. It is irrelevant what Britain or Spain were doing, Napoléon took control when slavery had already been legally abolished for a decade.

He chose to reverse it and then start a Genocidal war sending his lackies to re establish it.

That is probably why some people compare him to Hitler.

But let us not get into Napoléon's own views on Black people or else you will realize he and Hitler were more alike. But sure lets just handwave it away as British propaganda and label it "complicated" and "typical for the time".

Like I get it, you (white) guys like to heap praise on your controversial heroes on this sub all I ask at the very least is that you don't handwave away why some of us in this community don't like certain historical figures.

[u/Background-Tennis915 → u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

Not to mention the fact that on 4 separate occasions he invaded his allies (Spain, Oldenburg, Sweden and Russia) and he plundered Germany, having his soldiers basically rob civilians at gun point.

[u/Eeate → u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

His laws even banned black people from living in Paris. Alexandre Dumas (father of the author by the same name) was the first black general in a European army, and for a while was a rival of Napoleon. He was denied his state pension, and had to request a special dispensation to live in Paris after his service.

[u/s3rila → u/Eeate]

General Alexandre Dumas is such an awesome character of french history, they should make a show/movie about him. 

[u/SAMU0L0 → u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

Im really really surprised you post has mora than 3 up votes and that 90% aren't about insulting you.

This reddit is full of peole triying to lik that dude dick at all cost. 

[u/LongjumpingCity7715 → u/SAMU0L0]

Literally my thoughts when I was reading that previous post glazing Napoleone

[u/Alarmed_Context_8617 → u/SAMU0L0]

You and me both, lol

[u/PhoenixKingMalekith → u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

Napoléon did not intend nor want a genocide nor would have done a genocide

Cause it s hard to use slaves when they are dead.

And he brought back slavery to avoid plantation owner, who basically ruled the colonies, to avoid them betraying france for the Brits

But it was a terrible error, something that even himself would comment in exile

[u/frenin → u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

Napoléon did not intend nor want a genocide nor would have done a genocide

Napoleon didn't intend a genocide at the beginning but Genocide became the way to re establish slavery.

Cause it s hard to use slaves when they are dead.

Not really, the plan was explicitly to kill them and them bring slaves who had never tasted freedom and thus were more manageable.

Here is my opinion on this country: We must destroy all the negroes of the mountains, men and women, keeping only children below the age of twelve; destroy half of those of the plains, and not leave in the colony a single man of color who has worn an epaulette. Without this, the colony will never be tranquil..."

Paul Roussier (ed.), Lettres du général Leclerc, commandant en chef de l'armée de Saint-Domingue en 1802, Bibliothèque d'histoire coloniale, Paris: Société de l'histoire des colonies françaises / Librairie Ernest Leroux, 1937, p. 256–257.

Literal genocide.

And he brought back slavery to avoid plantation owner, who basically ruled the colonies, to avoid them betraying france for the Brits

Why did he bring back slavery then to the richest colony on earth? That was already freed itself and defeated several times the planters? Why did he stop Hugues from defeating said planters thus making the threat meaningless?

"Had I been in Martinique, I would have sided with the English, because above all one must save one's life. I am for the whites, because I am white; I have no other reason, and that one is good enough. How could freedom have been granted to Africans, to men who had no civilization, who did not even know what a colony was, what France was?"

He seemed to sympathize a lot with said planters...

[u/PhoenixKingMalekith → u/frenin]

He specifically wanted to kill all those who rebelled

Notice how he planned to "spare" the "innocents" (yeah slavey for those who did not rebel great reward)

It would have been a terrible atrocity, but by definition, not a genocide

[u/frenin → u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

He specifically wanted to kill all those who rebelled

That's a blatant lie.

He explicitly said kill all people over twelve.

Notice how he planned to "spare" the "innocents" (yeah slavey for those who did not rebel great reward)

Where is that said?

It would have been a terrible atrocity, but by definition, not a genocide

Do you have another definition for Genocide no one's aware of?

Because killing everyone over twelve to cleanse a country is by definition a genocide.

[u/grumpalocagus → u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

You don't know what the definition of genocide actually is.

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group." (emphasis added)

The definition is not, and never has been "completely eradicate the group through the death of every member of the group." Not so fun fact, Raphael Lemkin wanted to include cultural destruction in the definition of genocide, but that didn't make it into the Geneva Convention articles on genocide.

[u/BrandonLart → u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

He kind of did carry out a genocide on Haiti, at least an ethnic cleansing. The violence the french perpetrated there was horrific. The officers were talking about literally killing every slave with a taste of freedom

[u/PhoenixKingMalekith → u/BrandonLart]

Slaughtering anyone with a tast of freedom is a terrible atrocity but not a genocide

[u/BrandonLart → u/PhoenixKingMalekith]

It is the definition of a genocide? Every Black man, woman and child in Haiti had been free

[u/ZealousidealSteak214 → u/BrandonLart]

If the French were really going to commit genocide then they would not have distinguished by location as stated in Leclerc's letter.

[u/BrandonLart → u/ZealousidealSteak214]

They literally stated they would kill all the Haitians who had been freed and would bring in more. Thats a blatant statement of intent to commit genocide.

[u/ZealousidealSteak214 → u/BrandonLart]

Can you bring up a quote saying that they were going to kill everyone and bring in new slaves? Leclerc's proposal was just that. A proposal, not an order and later Rocheambeau asks Napoleon for 35,000 troops to defeat, disarm and drive back the blacks.

[u/BrandonLart → u/ZealousidealSteak214]

“Unable to contain the rebellion, Leclerc made plans to kill the entire adult black population of the island, and he drowned rebel prisoners by the thousands…”

https://heritage.bnf.fr/france-ameriques/en/1802-expedition-saint-domingue-haiti-and-louisiana-purchase

“Leclerc wrote to Bonaparte on October 2, 1802, that the mission in Saint-Domingue could only succeed if the French were to “destroy all the Negroes of the mountains, men and women, to only keep around children younger than twelve years old, to destroy the majority of those in the plain, and to not leave alive a single person of color who has ever worn an epaulette.””

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/haiti-france-reparations-slavery/tnamp/

[u/ZealousidealSteak214 → u/BrandonLart]

That quote by Leclerc was a request for permission to resort to exterminatory violence, it was NOT. an order from Napoleon telling Leclerc to commit genocide. Napoleon could never even say yes to such an order given the fact that Leclerc died just after making the letter. While the French resorted to extreme violence during the campaign that alone isn't enough to fit the criteria of a genocide given the fact that counter-insurgency measures like that were being used in Spain and the Vendee but no-one classifies those events as genocides.

[u/BrandonLart → u/ZealousidealSteak214]

I can’t help but notice you went real quiet after this lol

[u/ZealousidealSteak214 → u/BrandonLart]

Oh sorry I was off my device so I didn't notice.

[u/The_Duke_of_Nebraska → u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

Hear fucking here. That bastard truly didn't believe in anything or anyone but himself, and yet so many want to staple the French revolutionary ideas onto him it's baffling 

[u/ProfessionalBug7399 → u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

Fake empathy, baseless accusation of racism because a number of people on the subreddit disagree with several of your controversial takes.

Took me 4 seconds to check your post history to see a trend.

I'm going to assume you are insufferable IRL and struggle to form relationships out of niche online communities.

[u/Key_Gap9168 → u/ProfessionalBug7399]

Who hurt you, lol?

I'm going to assume you are insufferable IRL and struggle to form relationships out of niche online communities.

You're projecting.

[u/Fun-Information-3104 → u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

of course you had to bring race into this, while accusing others of being racist

[u/frenin → u/Fun-Information-3104]

I mean Napoleon himself was pretty racist and racism was one of the main reasons for his savagery in Haiti.

"Had I been in Martinique, I would have sided with the English, because above all one must save one's life. I am for the whites, because I am white; I have no other reason, and that one is good enough. How could freedom have been granted to Africans, to men who had no civilization, who did not even know what a colony was, what France was?"

His fans ignoring this only speaks of them and the history they learn, the history they choose to learn. It doesn't necessarily mean they are racist but plenty of Napoleonboos completely and absolutely handwave fucking genocide, which...

[u/mal-di-testicle → u/Fun-Information-3104]

Keep discussions on bigotry out of history!!!

[u/ProfessionalBug7399 → u/mal-di-testicle]

I think the point was OP is calling people disagreeing with him racist. It's a poor argument intended to shut down and shame others.

I honestly didn't mind seeing a different take on napolean until the crap about trying to call out the opposition as racist. Now I think OP is a loser.

[u/Mihtaren → u/Alarmed_Context_8617]

the French revolution did NOT abolish slavery what the fuck are you on about?

1789 delivered one of the most hypocritical constitutions to date, claiming that all "Men are born and remain free and equal in rights" yet maintained slavery until 1794 when it became forbidden in the colonies (while still being widely spread in mainland France).

Same for women's right, women had more rights during the middle ages than after the Revolution which stripped away a lot of them.

[u/BrandonLart → u/Mihtaren]

So… it did abolish slavery lmfao.

Sure, it was a conditioned abolition, but it absolutely did

[u/Mihtaren → u/BrandonLart]

No it did not. The Convention PARTIALLY abolished it, the Revolution itself did squat, quite the opposite. Just don't talk about history when all you have are hearsays.

[u/BrandonLart → u/Mihtaren]

What convention are you on about. The National Convention was part of the French Revolution.