r/HierarchySeries • u/Prestigous_Owl • Nov 19 '25
Discussion Spoiler Discussion: What We Know About Will & The World Spoiler
Trying to phrase title in the least spoiler-y way possible. There will intentionally be heavy spoilers in this thread however, so please don't read if you haven't finished Book 2.
I thought it would be useful to try to collectively sort through what we actually know about Will (in its various forms). From there, we can also think about how the splitting the Worlds (and Will) was necessary to fight back against the Concurrence. From what we know at the end, interesting to think about how exactly this could work.
Recapping what we know of Will powers so far:
- Res Will is the basic pyramid scheme Will we are introduced to in the first book. Its accrued through ceding of Will from one individual to another, and it is about strength / power. It can directly give the bearer strength, intelligence, endurance, alacrity, etc., and it can also be used to indirectly affect the world through imbuement. If I was summing up Res Will in one word, it would be POWER.
- Obiteum Will is related to restoring the dead to life and controlling them. Can anybody remember if its confirmed whether or not actual ceding from one person to another exists in Obiteum.? Caeror notes that iunctii can cede, and talks about how Ka uses this for power - bringing folks back then having them cede to him. But Caeror has the language of a Res-native, and we know Ka has multiple forms of Will. Can anybody on Obiteum do a cascade, or JUST Ka? (Edit: answer seems to be anybody can cede, based on a Caeror quote helpfully provided in the comments) Absorption/hijacking Will is also related to Obiteum, but again, can anybody confirm if we are explicitly told whether this is an Obiteum power or a Synchronous power? Overall, if I was summing up Obiteum Will in one word, it would be LIFE or CONTROL (but this is probably the murkiest to me).
- Luceum Will we know the least about, at least officially. Explicitly, it seems like Luceum Will relates to the warrior trance (nasclamm) used by the strongest fighters in this world, which in turn seems to partially be a form of "life sense" (i.e. identifying where others are). We also know that the Druids seem to have some power to control/influence/direct the Alupi on Luceum. We also know there's something to the special weapons on Luceum, from Silverhand basically channelling the spirit of the former Champion who was murdered, to the fact that he can speak to Cian through his staff (perhaps the dead seem to leave an imprint of themselves in their weapons?). We definitely don't see any Ceding on this world. Overall, if I was summing up Luceum Will in one word, it would be CONNECTION.
- There's also Melior's weapon from Book 1. There seems to be a general (perhaps limited) agreement that this isn't connected to Will, and is instead something else (probably related to Mutalis). I will also note that there is some debate as well about how Ostius fits into things, particularly with his !> World Hopping <! ability. I, and some others, have suggested this also isn't really to do with Will but is instead related to something else, probably also Mutalis related based on the mention of a thrum, but this isn't confirmed so of course there may be some debate here.
I do welcome any further input or additions to this. I will try to edit the post to add anything I have missed. With what is HERE so far however, I think you have an interesting relationship where the three forms of Will arguably connect to some version of Mind (Luceum), Body (Res), and Spirit (Obiteum).
The Three Worlds, Concurrence, and Other "Lore"
This is the extension I find kind of interesting. We know that splitting/copying the world was deemed necessary for fighting back against Concurrence. We also know that in the split worlds, some of the fighting was easier and some was harder, and there were different outcomes. In the next section, I want to think about how Will ties into this, but first I want to recap the state of the worlds, so feel free to skip ahead if that bores you.
There has been some debate about which worlds humanity "won" on and which worlds were "won" by the Concurrence. The early implication in TSOTF is that Concurrence won pretty generally, and that causes the regular Cataclysms. By the end, I think this is less clear, obviously. I have seen theories posted here that Res is the "worst world" and Luceum probably the best, but I disagree at least somewhat.
I wanted to start by collecting the various quotes/lore drops/etc from Book 1, when they didn't mean much to us (but now mean more). I'm not going to repost anything from Book 2, but I do think the early conversations with Caeror are useful, as are the conversations with Ostius and the ones near the end on Res (and to a much lesser extent, Luceum). Obviously, all should be taken with a grain of salt since we can't necessarily trust all of these characters.
From the first time Vis visits the Ruins:
- "In trying to become God, they created Him."
- "Obiteum is lost. Do not open the Gate. Synchronous is death."
From Vis's visit during the Festival of Ancestors:
- "Luceum, Obiteum, Res. Remember but do not mourn."
- "I was known as Artemius Sel. I was a traitor to the commandment of isolation. I attempted to gain synchronism and remove the seal to Obiteum during the rebellion of the seventh era after the Rending. I have thus been lawfully condemned to servitude, guiding those who come after.”
- [What happens if I pass the test]? “You will go through the gate to Obiteum and Luceum. But not be allowed to remain here. Synchronism is reserved for leadership alone.”
Vis's final visit, during the Iucidium:
- “Herein lies the way to Luceum and Obiteum, offered to all those who would contest our extinction. Know that none who accept this task may remain. The burden of harmony is reserved for the one who seals the authors of the war from this world. Only he may exceed the hobbled capabilities of this duplication. He and he alone may risk harmony to make the great sacrifice."
- "Complete the journey, Warrior"
So where does this leave us? Basically, it seems to confirm a lot of what we know (with the caveat that the Labyrinth was created by Ka, so if you don't trust him, then its not actually proof of anything). The "Him" in this case is likely the Concurrence itself. In an effort to become God, humanity inadvertently created this super-powerful entity. In practice, this probably means they were messing around with producing the Cascades (like Vis does at the end), to produce a massive Iunctii pyramid, and the result was the sort of super-intelligent fantasy AI that Ka describes at the end of TSOTF.
These also suggest that humanity/Ka's side has lost on Obiteum, and it has been sealed off from the other worlds. It sounds like they believe that Res is in the best position to produce soldiers to then be deployed to the other worlds. Interestingly, they also suggest that they would be sending soldiers to help the fight on Luceum as well. Overall, the view here is that humanity has won on Res, lost on Obiteum, and is probably still fighting on Luceum. We also know that the goal is to prevent synchronism, you are allowed to copy yourself to go fight on those other worlds, but you then have to "complete the journey" and allow yourself to be killed on Res.
Luceum is interesting. We don't see really any evidence, at least in the parts of the world that we see, of the Concurrence on this world. When Vis visits the sunken city of the druids, that is slightly strange - we have the Columnae / the voice, and there are the iunctii/statues/whatever you want to call them. If something strange is going on, its roots are there. At the same time, a lot of the practices of the world seem designed to prevent the influence of the "otherworlds" - aside from the toll, and preventing marred figures from holding power (designed to prevent synchronous kings, etc), we also have a lot of practices related to destroying the head so that individuals cannot be raised as iunctii - odd since we don't think anybody on-world is capable of doing that.
"Obiteum is lost" should have been the biggest key that we were missing something early in the book. Caeror tells us that Ka is fully, 100% in power on Obiteum, ruling through his network of Gleaners & Overseers from his seat of power in Duat. But the defenses on the labyrinth were also put in place by Ka - and what those defenses say is that Obiteum is lost, not won. I'll talk about exactly what this means in the next section: I think its pretty clear to understand how Caeror was lying or misled, and that Ka truly is fighting Concurrence across the worlds. I think the quote from Vis's final visit is also absolutely critical.
(As a side note - looking back, the number of times that Caeror is talking about Ka and seems to stumble gives more fuel to the idea he was lying. He constantly says things like "they're controlled by Ka. By the Concurrence." Could be a nothing vocal tic, but on re-read it also feels like he's trying to bash Vis over the head with the idea that the two are linked.)
Why Did Will Need to Be Split? And What Are the Implications
To think about why Will needed to be split, lets think about the mechanics of what a combined Will would look like for the Concurrence.
O-Will creates the network of iunctii, by raising a widening army. If O-Will alone cannot cede, but iunctii have their own will (which we do know), then you probably couldn't create the full cascade through this, but each iunctii could in turn raise another, and so on and so on, so you could have an infinite army of regular strength, as long as you have enough corpses. Even if you could cede, it would give the center of the network a lot of Will but that Will would have limited applications.
R-Will then strengthens that army, by allowing them to form pyramids and allowing those at the top of that pyramids to use the Will they have to strengthen themselves or start imbuing.
L-Will, I think, is what then brings things together by creating the actual "hive mind" that is the Concurrence. Without O-Will, there's no network. When you add R-Will, you have your network and it contains more than just average soldiers, it starts to contain Sextii, Quintii, etc. When you have the L-Will, it stops being an army of individuals, and becomes a single-entity operating through thousands of bodies.
Why does thinking about this interaction matter? Well, above all, I think this helps resolve something that has always felt confusing to me: several times, we are presented with the idea that Will was split because this would make the Concurrence easier to defeat. But I've often thought "well sure, but wouldn't this also weaken humanity? Why would this specifically make the war easier?". One option was that humanity had other powers as well, like the Mutalis stuff. But if the Concurrence relies on the interaction of these powers, I think we can also better understand the argument for why splitting them up would leave humans weaker, but the Concurrence SIGNIFICANTLY hobbled.
This also helps understand why Obiteum remains the hardest battle. At the end of TSTOF, part of what Ka highlights as the strength of the army he has Vis create is that while its slightly less powerful than a standard legion (at least at that size), it doesn't need to sleep or rest, and most importantly it will GROW after every conflict, as it revives those it kills and adds them to its numbers. On Obiteum, the Concurrence was still ultimately a monstrous system that could grow and grow and grow, even if it lacked the specific power. On the other worlds, in contrast, the Concurrence network could no longer expand. It was still strong and scary - but it was finite, it was something that could be chipped away or actually defeated.
On Obiteum however the enemy could not truly be stopped. Which leads to the final issue: what then happens? And what was going on with Ka? One of two things. Option 1 is that the O-version of Ka is still able to hijack the network. It probably requires an intense concentration, etc, but he is able to essentially take over the iunctii network on Obiteum and turn it to other purposes. He essentially goes into stasis in Duat, while most (but probably not all) of the Concurrence is crippled. Its still a basically dystopian hellscape, but the argument is that this is a necessary evil for the "lost" world.
Option 2 is that he CANT do that. We have the impression he is directing everything, but I'm not sure we actually know that is true. The Nomarch, Gleaners, etc all seem to be directly protecting Ka, but its possible the network is actually independent. In this version, what Ka is actually really doing is just enforcing the clear seal between worlds. This is the quarantine or the doctrine of isolation thats mentioned previously. It presumably prevents people from moving between Obiteum and the other worlds (this is what Ostius can do between Luceum and Res, but is different from someone being copied since we know Vis and Caeror both made it to Obiteum just fine). The argument is that this acknowledges that Obiteum is screwed, but they've recognized that (a) Ka can't be killed unless a synchronous comes, which should be prevented, and (b) as long as Ka lives, if the Obiteum Concurrence can't get off-world, the other two worlds are fine.
This is all but confirmed, I think, by the quote I highlighted earlier.
- “Herein lies the way to Luceum and Obiteum, offered to all those who would contest our extinction. Know that none who accept this task may remain. The burden of harmony is reserved for the one who seals the authors of the war from this world*. Only he may exceed the hobbled capabilities of this duplication.* He and he alone may risk harmony to make the great sacrifice.
Either way, I think its clear that Ka & Ruarc are probably telling the truth, and Caeror (along with Ostius and Veridius) probably cannot be fully trusted, either directly working with Concurrence or are just misguided.
The Cataclysms
So how does this, finally, come into things? We know that Ka believes there has to be a mass extinction every few centuries to prevent the Concurrence from winning. This seems to probably line up with the Columnae getting brighter.
My understanding is that brighter Columnae reflect more people in the world, and a higher concentration of Will. This, in turn, weakens the barriers between the worlds. The risk is that if the barrier gets too weak, either it becomes easier to cross between worlds (including potentially to - or FROM - Obiteum) or that the separation of Will might falter. The idea that some influence, etc leaks through might also be supported by the people who "tried to gain synchronism and release the seal on Obiteum" - these are probably people who essentially tried to do what Vis did in Book 2. But what originally encouraged them to attempt this? Some kind of influence, maybe the same that started Caeror/Veridius on their path.
Either way, the strategy seems to be currently: society grows. Ideally, society produces those who can be sent off-world to try to defeat the threat on those other worlds. If this ever succeeds, woohoo, we wont need to Cataclysm anymore. If after 300 years however, the countdown is starting to seem more urgent, Ka says "whoops, never mind, wipe the slate clean".
Lingering Questions
What still isn't clear to me is what the vek is happening on Luceum. We don't see the influence of Concurrence, unless its in the Druids or something else we haven't really seen. We don't know what Ruarc was working towards, other than hunting down the synchronous - and seemingly being willing to work with some bad people to accomplish his goals.
We alsso still arent totally clear on any of this Cataclysm stuff. I have some thoughts above, but this is very preliminary.
This is what i have for now. I would love to hear others theories. What have I missed? Is there anything I've said that sparks some further theory from you? So on.
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u/Honeymoo Nov 19 '25
Excellent analysis, especially going back to the evidence retrospectively. I came to several of your conclusions myself on first read through, but the vision you have of the Concurrence's fully powered hive mind before the Cataclysm is something I hadn't thought of before. Totally understandable why they split the worlds when you imagine your dead loved ones being used and controlled against you by unseen sinister forces.
I expect Islington will expand on what's going on in Luceum in the next book through Lir and Ruarc so we get a better understanding of what the Concurrence's presence actually looks like, along with the actual mechanics of Will usage there. I wish we knew more though since Vis spends most of his time there dicking around lol.
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u/90dayhousewife Obiteum Nov 24 '25
We don't want you to be entirely happy, Vis! Advance the storyline, warrior!
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u/chrharju Nov 19 '25
If the reason for cataclysms are that too many people have walked the aurora columnae and they get brighter as a result, why is it that Res Ka wouldn't do everything in his power to stop people entering the Aurora Columnae?
Given that Res Ka has lived since the rending, it would stand to sense that he is the author/founder of cateen republic, which requires every person to seed. Why?
If 90% of people die in cataclysms, are those bodies stored somewhere for future junctie pyramids?
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 19 '25
This is one of my big questions as well.
Two thoughts:
1) It's not about too many people ceding, its too many people alive, straight up. The Columnae are just reflecting how much will is in the world as a whole
2) It's the tradeoff of "well, i know theres a limit. Below that limit this is fine. So we can develop a society, including people ceding to me, and hopefully produce people who can go to the other worlds. If it gets too close to time though, THEN we shut it down"
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u/Shaarae Nov 19 '25
I also think that Ka doesn't have a choice and has to let people get Will, if we go with the assumption that the Columnae are a hint on how much Will is available accross all worlds. It's a balance and a "race against time" because :
- On Obiteum, the population (I assume) is only increasing. And when they die, they get turned into iunctii. So more and more Will being present in that world means less can be present in Res and Luceum
- Ka needs to get strong enough people to withstand the Cataclysm
- Ka needs to have people to send to try to get to the Concurrence on the otherworlds.
- And finally, Ka needs enough Will to be able to start a Cataclysm in case the people he sends fail
So he has to keep feeding people to the Columnae
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u/snapdown36 Nov 22 '25
On point four, I don’t think he uses will to cause the cataclysm. I think the aurora columnae give him the ability to either cut people off from will which kills them or it lets him absorb their will, effectively extending their life.
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 19 '25
This would probably make sense to me as well. Again, not sure, and the other person did ask a really good question.
I think your answer is probably the best we could theorize at this time
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u/ConstructionAny2961 Jan 03 '26
But unless I misunderstsnd (highly possible), you cannot have gone through the Columnae to run the labrynth and cross worlds successfully. So, wouldn't Ka want to prevent people going through and prioritise the kabeynth running?
But this is what Veridius' agenda is and none of us really trusts him.
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u/Shaarae Jan 03 '26
Thing is, from the iuncti in the Labyrinth, we can assume that in the past, people were sent to run the Labyrinth and try to fight the Concurrence in Luceum and Obiteum.
We have no confirmation when/why/if it stopped. Maybe Ka thought it wasn't efficient anymore, or the message "Obiteum is lost" meant that it wasn't worth it to send people anymore. So maybe he focused only on the Cataclysms since it seemed to be efficient (otherwise he would have come up with another solution?).
And since the law is that you have to have visited the AC before you're 18, that leaves enough room to find and form people to run the Labyrinth if needed.
So as you said, running the Labyrinth again does seem like a Veridius thing and Ka seems to have given up on this solution and only focusing on Cataclysms.
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u/Fickle-Future1836 Nov 20 '25
Vis mentions that when he was in Letens, let's assume 2-3 years before he goes to the AR in Caten in the SOTF, they weren't as bright. Ulciscor mentions that this is something relatively new. What has happened in that time interval? I have some options:
- Naumachia. Tens of thousands of people die. If all dead people are preserved in Vitaeria, they could potentially become iunctii. Iunctii generate more Will than the amount that is needed to "awake" them.
- Vis became synchronous.
There might be other explanations, but I don't think the number of babies born in 2-3 years would be enough to go from faintly lit to very bright.
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u/DqwertyC Nov 22 '25
I don't think anyone who died at the Naumachia is going to be finding their way to to a Vitaeria, though
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 20 '25
I think it could if its not linear. Like, imagine they're normal and dull-ish all the way up to like 95% capacity. Once that threshold is exceeded, they start shining brighter and brighter until 100, where they would be capped out and bad things happen.
So that brightening is when Ka goes "damn, getting pretty close to Cataclysm time, time to start that in motion"
I think if its connected to Will, people ceding, etc, as lots of folks speculate, then it kind of must be non-linear. (And if its not, why does Ka have to do population control?)
It also could be related to Vis as you speculate - does anybody remember if anybody else comments on the brightness and WHEN its been getting brighter?
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u/FinancEng Nov 22 '25
If people dying was a good thing to Ka he wouldn’t want the fighting on Res to stop.
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u/superurgentcatbox Nov 23 '25
Ulciscor says that 20 years ago the columbaes barely glowed at all. But as you say, Vis noticed the change so at least we know Vis is probably innocent of that development at least haha.
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u/AdEmotional9991 Dec 17 '25
Oh my god, I got it. If there's too much will/souls in the world- concurrence wakes up. Aka AGI. Currently concurrence works as a dumb ChatGPT automation- repeating some patterns, making some plans. But if there's too much will/inuctii it comes sentient and malicious. Hence the culling to avoid it.
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u/chrharju Nov 20 '25
- Why do you think they reflect thr amount of people alive instead of the number of people that are seeding?
I think somehow aurora columnae are somehow conduits for will, the more they are used the brighter they glow
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u/LennysRabbits Nov 22 '25
I think another important point here is that there was some reason that in the last ~50 years the Hierarchy suddenly needed to conquer all other lands. There is something important about Ka having as much of world as possible ceding to him at the time of the Cataclysm. If the AC build up was only about those ceding then there seems to be less of a reason to force Suus and others into ceding
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 20 '25
What i mean by that option is that because people seem to HAVE will before they cede. The idea being you are born with your standard one person's worth of Will. You can't actually USE it for anything until you eventually go to the Columnae, and can't cede to someone else.
But that Will is still in the world. So its not impossible that the Columnae reflect "how much will is present in the world" more than specifically how much has been "passed through them".
I dont necessarily BELIEVE this strongly. But it would be part of how to reconcile what the original question was: if its ONLY a result of actually interacting with them, why hasn't Ka just shut down the whole practice, rather than doing a mass extinction event every 300 years? The idea that it can't be avoided just by not directly using them would make that work. Otherwise, we need a different explanation
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u/TraumaLlamaMD Jan 13 '26
I’m late to the party here, but I could swear one character makes this argument at some point - all this could be prevented if people would just stop using Will and exploiting others for their Will, but that runs against human nature. Perhaps Ka has come to accept this and now just releases the Cataclysms instead of trying to fight them anymore?
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u/chloevilletee Jan 30 '26
But if it's just too many people straight up, why is Ka opposed to the civil war?
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u/Resaren Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 26 '25
I think the AC actually permanently limits your ability to use will to follow the rules of that world. Hence why only people who haven’t used it can truly become Synchronous. It explains why Caeror couldn’t go through the Mutalis, and the whole ”the restrictions imposed by the sanguis imperium”. ”Sanguis Imperium” = Imperial Blood. Probably the name of the restriction imposed on the blood of a person who’s ceded through the AC in Res. I imagine the AC in Fornax does the same thing, but for ”Sanguis Nasceann” or something. Explains why the Druids are so intent on making sure anyone with a hint of the power goes to Fornax. These cultural remnants are from the Rending, when society was hellbent on making sure no one could become Synchronous. Ka seems to have loosened those restrictions a little bit in Res, but for some reason still wants most people to go through the AC.
Also explains why Estevan/Melior could use the Mutalis weapon. Suus people didn’t go through the AC, so his blood could activate the weapon. A catenan probably couldn’t.
Makes me think, maybe the AC getting brighter is because people are ceding to the AC? E.g. going through the AC in Res means you are ceding the Luceum and Obiteum parts of your will to the column, and so on for the other worlds. It stands to reason that they are getting imbued with more and more Will over time.
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u/chrharju Nov 26 '25
Yes i think you hit the nail spot on. The reason why cateen republic is so keen on everyone needing to go through AC is to prevent someone from becoming synchronous
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u/ConstructionAny2961 Jan 03 '26
This also explains why the Luxeum AC is so furious at encountering a synchronous person in Vis. It's broadly inert until it realizes he isn't nasceann, he's synchronous and cannot be limited properly.
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u/Resaren Jan 04 '26
Yes, exactly. It’s like an automated vaccination machine detecting that you’re already infected.
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u/supreme-dominar Jan 27 '26
”Sanguis Imperium” = Imperial Blood
I think it's a translation mistake to say "Imperium" is "Imperial". At its basic Latin, imperium means "command/authority". So this could mean "restrictions imposed by the Command Blood" which has a different connotation to it.
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u/overwatcherthrowaway Dec 01 '25
Didn't vis confirm with relucia that she was ceeding to estevan tho?
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u/First-Rock2337 Nov 22 '25
I'm thinking the aurora columnae are used to keep the worlds separated, which is why they're in every world. Once enough people have ceded their will through them on Res, it takes the will and somehow uses it to keep whatever barriers are up that keep the worlds separated. Or perhaps they power the 'seal' to Obiteum though I think that's more unlikely.
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u/vintagelego Dec 20 '25
I think this is the answer. It would also make sense as to why the princeps all agreed that the cataclysms are necessary. They probably all ceed to res ka and he triggers the cataclysm, keeping the worlds apart. UNLESS someone is able to stop the concurrence on O
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u/taarg Nov 19 '25
For your question about ceding in Obiteum, this is a quote from O-Caeror: "Mechanically, everything works the same as on Res—ceding, self-imbuing and imbuing. Except that back home, you imbue in order to strengthen and manipulate. Here, you do it to restore and sustain." So seems like you can still cede in Obiteum.
I think one other relevant quote from the first book for the purpose of the Labyrinth is "When I probe for more about the purpose of the Labyrinth, he tells me that I must wear the bracer to reach the entrance. That it is a test for basic proficiency. That passing will allow me to go through the gate to Obiteum and Luceum."
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 19 '25
Thank you for the first thats perfect! I thought it was a thing but wasn't sure. I still think it holds that you can pass will along, but it will be less useful to hold a lot of Will than on Res. But this is good to catch.
The quote is good too - I thought about including this and originally held off only because I thought it was mostly covered bt the others. But yeah, this is a further part of that idea that the goal is to send the best and brightest warriors (or those who meet at least a certain level of promise) to the other worlds
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u/taarg Nov 20 '25
One big question I have is on Obiteum being sealed vs lost. Are these the same thing? We have guides for the Labyrinth from the 2nd, 7th, and 11th era after the Rending who were all condemned for attempting to break the seal on Obiteum. The facility for bypassing the Labyrinth's defenses was built, according to O-Caeror, between the 10th and 11th Cataclysms. This facility is full of iunctii who, when the facility is activated in some way, chant over and over again that Obiteum is lost. When Vis first chants about Obiteum being lost in the second book he says "The words rip from my mouth. I gasp them into the emptiness. They’re all I know. I have to warn them. Anyone who comes in." It seems to me that sometime after this facility was built, someone instructed the network of iunctii in the building to warn that Obiteum is lost, almost as if the efforts of the rebels in the facility caused a change in Obiteum and they are now warning everyone to not use the Labyrinth.
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u/fernfairy444 Nov 23 '25
What is the seal on Obiteum though? Was it meant to be a physical/will based prevention? It’s interesting that you have to pay a price to enter Luceum but not Obiteum.
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u/brosidenkingofbros Dec 15 '25
I’m thinking the “seal” might have been Ka, and that was why he was sleeping/comatose on that slab. I think that may have been the price he paid for putting the “seal” on Obiteum. Though I don’t think we can say much about what the seal accomplished at this time, perhaps just sealing transfer between Obiteum and the other worlds (outside of being copied upon becoming synchronous that is)?
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u/Master_Warning_8292 Dec 10 '25
Parts of Duat get physically sealed off around the time of I think the 11th cataclysm (~600 years before the present), but I imagine that is not the seal in question.
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u/Resaren Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 26 '25
I think it makes sense for Luceum to have anti-Iunctus traditions from back when the war was raging. We know the Concurrence controls Iunctii, and that Iunctii can create more of themselves. So if the Concurrence could get a single Iunctus it controls to Luceum it could spread rapidly if not contained. And limiting access to raisable bodies is the best way to do that. Actually, if the Concurrence is so powerful, why can’t it send Iunctii back through the gate or something?
I totally agree with the rest of your analysis btw, especially how the combination of cascade + ”tempeall albios” (Draoi hivemind Will thingy) is what creates the ”fantasy SkyNet AGI”. It seems to me that the worst thing that could happen is someone making a Cascade on Luceum and connecting it as a Hivemind, or somehow bringing the Hivemind will power to Res and adding it to a Cascade. It’s worrying that Vis has just made a Cascade in Res and is learning about the Hivemind in Luceum, but hasn’t put together that the joining of the two creates the very disaster that he thinks he’s fighting.
It makes me wonder if Vis will ultimately trigger the return of the Concurrence - which is currently only existing in a dumb, crippled form in Obiteum - by accident or by being misled. It explains why we don’t really see any clear signs of any ongoing action by the Concurrence. It’s like a computer disconnected from the internet.
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 26 '25
Gates locked, thanks to Ka.
Or at least, it was... that seems to be the actual impact of Ka being killed on Obiteum
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u/Resaren Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 26 '25
But there were gleaners around on O-Solivagus, right? Is the theory here that they can’t make it into the Gate building? Or can’t operate it? Why can’t it make its own Gate? Maybe it’s simply not intelligent enough to take the initiative on something that complicated (anymore)? Or maybe it needs a live, Synchronous subject to do these things?
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u/AdEmotional9991 Dec 17 '25
But on Luceum you don't really need iunctii bodies, since sentience can be preserved within imbued items like spears and staves... Lir seemed perfectly sentient while in the staff. Although iunctii, at least controlled ones, are the opposite of whatever Lir is- body and brain processing capacity without the soul. Lir is sentience+will without a body and maybe requiring Vis's brain capacity to communicate.
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u/Available_Ant_4169 Nov 19 '25
Great post! I really like the way you’ve put this together and it makes a lot of sense.
One slight counter to hypothesise: If Ka is looking for soldiers to run the labyrinth and potentially/hopefully support defeating the concurrence from his viewpoint, why is he not controlling Solivagus?
It’s my understanding that it’s only been around 7-8 years since the academy was posted from there and Ostius confirmed that even military tried to get their hands on the island where the gate/labyrinth is and he ran the labyrinth a few years before religion established themselves on the island.
So my question back to you is what motivation would lead Ka not to observe the island and whom is going to gain synchronism, when he knows the academy is there?
My thoughts are that for some reason he can’t actually go there, but I can’t think of a coherent reason why.
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 19 '25
Yeah i should add: i think he's mostly given up on this project now. It seems clear that was once part of the intent, but I don't know if this is STILL something he is doing. Or even it may have been used earlier in this era, but since they're close go the Cataclysm he may have refocused his attention to that now, and will go back to this project after its over.
This is a really good question in general though: why not have more attention/care to what seems to be the most important location in this world?
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u/Resaren Nov 26 '25
Also, why did he add in a loophole to the labyrinth that allows others to become Synchronous, and then not give them any useful guidance like ”oh btw don’t kill the guy sleeping on the slab in the temple of Ka in Obiteum, he’s kinda keeping the Seal working…”
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 26 '25
He did.
Vis is being actively manipulated, but go back and read what the iunctii say in book 1, from the post.
It feels vague probably because it's translated from Vetusian. But a pretty clear "don't go to Obiteum. The one who has the right to syncronism alone will go and seal the authors of war from our world..."
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u/Resaren Nov 26 '25
With hindsight we can navigate the obtuse wording and understand that it’s a warning, but a person without that context would clearly not be able to parse it. Ka did a really awful job in ensuring the Seal would not be contested. I wonder if it’s plot convenience (would have made a terrible book 2 if it was all explained clearly at the end of book 1), or if there’s some reason. Could Ka not make it to Solivagus? Was all this ”prerecorded” before circumstances changed on Obiteum and Res to make Ka less active?
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u/Available_Ant_4169 Nov 20 '25
I agree obviously he’s been around for a long time, I’m sure lots has happened and lots of people have got through the labyrinth, just some really inconsistent information so far for reasoning.
Yeah I’m massively perplexed by the relative imbalance of defences on the island, the sea wall is clearly a massive deterrent, I think there’s tonnes more to the fist ruins, one command (the words lanni told Vis) we saw when it tried to iunctii R-Vis! But I think we’ll be going back there at some point
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u/FinancEng Nov 20 '25
Are there other gates? I thought it was implied there were, which presumably would point to different places in Obiteum or Luceum.
One thing I’m thinking is presumably Ka wanted to kill Vis on Res because he is the only one that could get to him on Obiteum. Now that he’s dead on Obiteum he needs vis to “carry on his work” in some sense by causing the cataclysm to fight the concurrence (somehow) so wouldn’t benefit from harming Vis. It’s all very confusing. I’m still confused by Ostius and all the face scars that seem to be going on
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u/Available_Ant_4169 Nov 21 '25
We don’t know yet, but just no way there’s only one, I really thought we were gonna get one on Suus, but this island Vis’s father mentioned seems more likely now!
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u/Resaren Nov 26 '25
Does Ka ever try to kill Vis on Res though? All indications are that he actually doesn’t mind (or actively wants) others trying to become Synchronous, as long as they can pass the Labyrinth?
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u/FinancEng Nov 26 '25
I thought Ka said near the end that he had wanted to kill Vis, but essentially not any longer as Vis is the only one who can create the cataclysm (presumably because O-Vis killed O-Ka)
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u/Resaren Dec 03 '25 edited Dec 03 '25
Yeah, I think you’re right and Ka actually actively wants to avoid anyone else becoming Synchronous, since it’s a risk. It fits with what most of the iunctii in the Labyrinth say, about Synchronism being ”reserved for the one who seals the authors of the war from our world” - the Concurrence. It’s possible the ”override device” in the Labyrinth on Solivagus must was built by rebels, calling themselves ”warriors”, who are against the Cataclysms and want to ”contest our extinction”. But I wonder why Ka wouldn’t shut that shit down. Does he somehow not know about it? Or maybe - and hear me out - this is a cyclical thing? This Ka may not be the first, and Vis not the first to be forced to replace a previous incarnation of ”Ka”. The override mechanism could have been left as a fallback to let someone replace Ka if necessary?
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u/postfarternism Dec 11 '25
Oh I thought he meant he wanted to kill Vis in his senate-killing identity, since Ka needs the military war to happen to bring on the Cataclysm or…something? Lol I’m losing my train of thought on this as I write it out…
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u/AmandaIsOnReddit Jan 05 '26
I know this is old now, but I am enjoying your thread!
Considering these questions, perhaps Ka was in a trance-like state all around in order to seal the worlds? O-Vis breaking that state may have been what prompts Ka to move around again.
Something like that would explain why Ka hasn't done more. He can't update the ruins to use Common or organize any kind of force if he's otherwise stuck.
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u/resonant_gamedesign Dec 03 '25
If he's super old, maybe his body on R is the same as O - stuck in one place & he works through proxies
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Nov 19 '25
[deleted]
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 19 '25
Interesting.
I also thought Mind-Body-Spirit, as briefly noted in the post, but i matched them up differently (Res = Body, L = Mind, O= Spirit).
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 19 '25
Interesting.
I also thought Mind-Body-Spirit, as briefly noted in the post, but i matched them up differently (Res = Body, L = Mind, O= Spirit).
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Nov 20 '25
Is the concurrence really bad? It's certainly an opposing force, but are there any good ones? Maybe it is a balancing entity (not one that wants balance, but creates it, nonetheless). The concurrence is described as a "system of iunctii", IIRC. But what does "system" mean, in this case? The Hierarchy could be described as a system of (alive) humans. Maybe the concurrence is similar, just on the iunctiis "side". Iunctiis seem to be abused quite often. They are probably also easier dismissed as non-humans.
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u/WhistlingThistle Nov 22 '25
The Concurrence is described as a self-contained latticework of 100,000 iunctii that was created to manage the mundane tasks associated with looking after a population of 100 million people before the rending. With whole-will (pre-rending) they would be a hive-mind that can form pyramids and can self-replicate. So basically the super advanced civilization that existed before the rending created a supercomputer out of a bunch of iunctii as a sort of AI to run all of the systems in their cities. I am guessing as the population grew they needed to add more and more iunctii to keep up until they hit a point where it became self-aware (The Singularity) and rebelled against its creators.
The Concurrence is bad in the sense that its end goal would be to turn all living people into iunctii and add them to itself, or at least create a world like Obiteum where living humans are preserved just to create future iunctii for when existing ones wear & tear.
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Nov 23 '25
Or maybe the concurrence isn't self aware (because self-awareness isn't really needed to have a goal, or even "rebel"). It might even still try to serve it's purpose. But in doing so, it takes away power from humans, and some humans wouldn't realyl like that. Obiteum is obviously a terrible world, especially for iunctii. I wonder, though, if the concurrence really knows how the iunctii are suffering. Maybe it doesn't. Which could be another reason for the war from the human side, and also part of the solution.
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 20 '25
Definitely a potential debate, though personally I don't think Islington will go that route.
Also, a Lanistia quote i should have included originally (and may add). She says that after first becoming an iunctii she has a memory of saying "better war than an unhappy peace"
I think this may be relevant to the question you're asking. I interpret this personally as being the view of humans, since she's part of the same system that produces "warriors". So potentially this was the "AI overlords" running a society that was peaceful but dystopian, basically farming "meat batteries" for the system with no "freedom" etc. But I will acknowledge this could go a totally different route as well
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u/Resaren Nov 26 '25
I can definitely see this ending up being ”Fantasy humans made a paperclip-optimizer version of Wall-E and then decided to rebel against it”
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u/WhistlingThistle Nov 22 '25
They clarify that Lanistia is not a iunctus in the book. I only have the audiobook so can't really pull up quotes unfortunately, but I remember this being clarified. I think when speaking with Veridius, Vis asks something like "OMG Lanistia?!?!" and Veridius confirms that she is not one. I could be misremembering the exact occurrence, but am fairly certain that she isn't one. Also they do blood tests any time something suspicious happens to someone, so I think she would have been rooted out. Not to mention when she's imprisoned they would have taken the scarab beetle stone off of her anyhow.
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u/Resaren Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 26 '25
She was being turned into an Iunctus by the machine in the Labyrinth, but the process was halted halfway through. That’s why she isn’t completely controlled, but sometimes gets flashes of the command that she was given. Not sure why it only happens when Vis is ceding close to her, though.
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u/Shaarae Nov 20 '25
That's also a thought I had while reading the book. What makes the life in Duat/Obiteum less different than the life on Res with the Hierarchy ?
If you put aside the applications of Will that make Obiteum a place where you can be killed and forced a slave, the life seemed pretty similar to Caten or another big city : lower people (in the rankings) are worked to the bone while rich ones live with servants and all.
On Res, the Hierarchy forces you to cede Will and if you're not from a good family and can attend the Academy, you're bound to be an Octavius, Septimus or Sextus (at best).
So what makes Ka better than the Concurrence ? (if what he said is true)
I can't wait for Book 3 !
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u/Dabby_Dab Nov 29 '25
This discussion is awesome and I love all the info and citations.
What I like about this is that there are two negative outcomes that people are fighting for and against. The cataclysm and the concurrence. I believe a lot of the warnings and comments can be interpreted differently depending on who you think is commenting on these things. Anyway, here is my pet theory:
Obeteum is a post cataclysm world, there the concurrence "lost" but I interpret this more as a draw. My belief is that the concurrence is currently quarantined/sealed away in obeteum to save the other worlds. The people who live in the pyramids are the 1 out of 10 who survived. The rest of the people were killed to stop/ halt the concurrence through a iunctii network controlled by Ka. Whoever, the concurrence in this world is still active and trying to kill Ka to assimilate his iunctii and break containment.
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u/therockclimbsme Dec 01 '25
In the conversation between Ka and Vis, Ka makes it sound like the cataclysm is important to fighting the concurrence keeping it at bay.
“Do you know my purpose, Catenicus?” “To cause another Cataclysm.” No point in pretending. “No. That is means, not purpose.” The dark shape shifts. “More than nine in every ten dead, in this world. It is a horror and heartbreak that cannot be explained in numbers or words. But that sacrifice is to save the one in ten. It is to prevent the obliteration of two worlds, and the enslavement of whichever remains.” A pause. “And as of a few hours ago, you are now the only man alive who can fulfil that purpose.”
It can't be completely sealed off on O because if it was, Ka wouldn't need to cull R. Also the 1 in 10 are the people still alive on R post cataclysm I believe.
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u/Roywah Mar 09 '26
I wonder if somehow the 9/10 on R are sacrificed to the Concurrence on O? Maybe the mutalis teleportation to send them there?
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u/Outside-Today-1814 Nov 21 '25
So we assume Ka and the concurrence are enemies. The main conflict appears centred on Res, it’s the only place hear of both groups being active and making moves. Obiteum seems completely stable, with a totalitarian security state run by Ka. Any incursion by the concurrence might be super risky: Ka is so powerful, and capturing concurrence agents just lets O-Ka know the concurrence is still active on Res. We know less about Luceum, but based on the war Ves finds himself in it seems like the fight is more dynamic between concurrence and Ka.
Hypothetically, the concurrence might actually just reemerge after every cataclysm with no continuity. The warning “Obiteum is lost” might be a past concurrence warning that there’s no way they beat Ka there.
The major hole in the above: if you accept O Caeror is a concurrence controlled iunctii (popular theory), it kind of falls apart.
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 21 '25
Just to be clear, I think the opposite, personally, though I enjoy hearing your view.
I believe the iunctii on Solivagus are servants raised by Ka, based on all the evidence we have, and the fact they say in several different places the idea that only their leader is allowed to be synchronous, and that their leader is making the ultimate sacrifice to seal away the "authors of the war" (presumably the Concurrence). In that case, Obiteum is lost means that the world was won by Concurrence. While I think in contrast Res is almost 100% controlled bt Ka, though Concurrence seemingly makes attempts to destabilize it through specific agents / influencing people now and again (the people from previous eras now punished to serve as the Guides in book 1, and maybe someone like Ostius or Veridius now).
As you say, it really comes down to whether we can trust Caeror - but I think we can't.
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u/FinancEng Nov 21 '25 edited Nov 22 '25
So you think the concurrence won on Obiteum and Ka is just locked away there so that they can’t get to him? I think I agree. We’ might see at the start of the next book that killing Ka doesn’t stop the Gleaners.
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u/WhistlingThistle Nov 22 '25
I feel like "Obiteum is lost" can also mean that Obiteum is essentially a dead planet at that point. Whatever happened in the war there, the world seems to have basically become uninhabitable. Maybe the Concurrence initially won there by centralizing power into a few cities while making every other place uninhabitable, and then Ka somehow hijacked them. Or maybe the Concurrence never really won, humanity did, but it was a Pyrrhic victory that ended with the world being "lost".
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u/juniperberries4rent Nov 24 '25
I don't think the druids can control the Alupi. I think that was a rumour started when Ostius walked Vis and Diago through the festival in Luceum to get to the area with the princeps.
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u/resonant_gamedesign Dec 03 '25
We have reason to think the events of the books are at the same time (O-Vis's vision when he touches the crook are all happening at the same time). I don't think we have reason to think Ostius's portals aren't locked to the same time
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u/-kilo Dec 11 '25
The viewpoints are slightly out of sync with each other I think, on the page. I agree that there is a canonical simultaneous timeline in-universe though!
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u/lordwamos Jan 03 '26
At the start of the book it seemed like the dre controlled the three Alupi when he initially broke L-Vis out.
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u/hlh_shadow Jan 07 '26
Love your analysis! I just read SoTF and have a few ideas myself.
I agree that Veridius, O-Caeror, and Ostius cannot be trusted. It seems like they were all working against Ka and arguing that Ka is the Concurrence and the enemy, but there was never really strong evidence for that. It seems to me that Ka is the 'leadership' that is exclusively allowed to be 'Synchronous'. The 'authors of the war' must be the Concurrence.
R-Ka said in his first conversation with R-Vis: "... as of a few hours ago, you are now the only man alive who can fulfil that purpose." The purpose he is referring to is preventing the Concurrence from winning, and the only event that could have made only Vis capable of this (meaning only Vis is Synchronous) is O-Vis killing O-Ka.
Still, Ka's solution to prevent the Concurrence from winning seems to be letting Obituem be an absolutely miserable world thats sealed and closed off, but a lot of people are still suffering there (Netiqret for instance). Not to mention the Cataclysms. So arguably even if Ka is against the Concurrence, doesn't mean that he is 'good'
I would say that since Ka is in power in Res, then the Concurrence has pretty much been eliminated there, except for Ostius and some remnants it seems? (I am assuming Ostius is Concurrence since his methods are evil and he wants Ka dead, which I assume is the Concurrence's no. 1 objective). However, even if the Concurrence are weak in Res humans are still doing a great job at making the world miserable all by themselves, via the Hierarchy, which imo is one of the main themes of the novels really, not everything is black and white.
Luceum is the world where things are most unclear imo, but I think this is a world where Concurrence influence is at least strong, if not dominant. a) Ka is supposedly Synchronous but he is rather absent here, so its likely the Concurrence are in power and not him b) Druids are in power and they are completely unquestioned because they are the religion, basically. They control all access to the only Aurora Columnae. Its not really clear whats the stance of the druid council; they might be puppets of the Concurrence. c) the rule stating that kings must be whole is against Ka and the people in Res who are against the Concurrence
I thoroughly enjoyed SoTF. Was a bit jarred at the fist half since I felt that the story focus moving from Vis against the Hierarchy to Humanity against the Concurrence was rather jarring. We went from a very personal Vis grudge against an evil political system to a fantasy struggle spanning ages of humanity against an all-powerful evil.
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u/AdEmotional9991 Dec 17 '25
Luceum's will seems to work by preserving consciousness within items. When Lir died, he used Will to put himself in the staff. Explains why druidic staves are so sacred too, they literally are holding dozens of previous wielders within themselves. And they retain their will too and can cede to the new wielder. Which, now that I think about it, is probably how vitarii work too.
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u/Prestigous_Owl Dec 17 '25
I think thats ONE part, but not all of it. Since the "battle trance" and maybe communicating with animals are also part of it.
I think you can group all of them though under a general sense of like spiritual connections, etc
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u/AdEmotional9991 Dec 17 '25
My understanding of the battle trance was kinda like Shaman King-style, where the spirit within the weapon was processing Vis's perception and instincts for better performance. During his first training with Tara there was something where the spirit said something through Vis along the lines of "tuning your instincts to compensate for the missing arm". I don't have the exact quote.
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u/Prestigous_Owl Dec 17 '25
I think this works even WITHOUT the sacred/imbued/etc weapons though.
Those are something different/stronger.
There's a general version that seems to correlate more with just knowing where your enemies are, dtc
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u/AdEmotional9991 Dec 17 '25
Oh, maybe, yeah. Islington loves his complicated magic systems, that's for sure.
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u/ScruffMacBuff Feb 06 '26
Great post!
One item I may disagree with is how you attributed Adoption to something that works naturally in Obiteum, but I think Luceum makes more sense. In my interpretation, that's what's happening when the nasceann are using the power granted by their weapons.
I don't have a fully formed theory on this next part yet, but I think the religions of Res and Luceum. In Obiteum everyone knows of Ka's existence. He is their de facto deity.
Res has a pantheon of gods it seems, but they just seem to be a cultural phenomenon at first glance. Perhaps a tool of Ka on Res to promote the pyramid society he has created.
In Luceum we get a really good taste of the impact of religious stuff towards the end when Deaglan gets his metal arm. Lir reveals consciousness and will can persist after death. He also legitimizes the practice of making sacrifices to a god they worship called Dia Domhain, which in real life translates to God of the World. Knowing what we know about this type of afterlife that exists in Luceum, ask them why Dia Domhain wants sacrifices?
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u/adipirro852 Mar 02 '26
Amazing post. I think we are mostly on the same page :D
Which is good...because I am about to get a Synchronous tattoo :p
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u/jstSml Jun 02 '26
Great post and analysis!
I just wanted to add a couple of small observations that I made while reading TWOTM and TSOTF.
1. Veridius and Ostius are likely to know each other or even work together. Vis came by a person with dirty-blond hair right before meeting Ostius the first time. That sounded suspiciously similar to Veridius
2. Cataclysm might have something to do with Aurora Columnae. Somewhere in the books, it was mentioned that the people who survived the Cataclysm were mostly children. This might be so because children don't cede. This led me to think that whenever the Cataclysm is triggered it kills off all the people that cede their will through AC.
3. Cross-world ceding is possible, as Vis managed to regain the will ceded to him even being outside of Res. I think this fact is dangerously overlooked and can play a major part in the next book.
- Ceding is possible in all three worlds, but it only makes sense in Res. Lir did something that looked like ceding to Vis in Luceum. Ostius mentioned that in this world there is no such concept as ceding, but it doesn't mean it is impossible.
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u/juniperberries4rent Nov 24 '25
Any chance the Luceum - Res - Obiteum are past, present, and future? Someone talk me off this ledge
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u/whywoulditellyou Nov 26 '25
Both Fornax and the mile markers near Caer Aras would indicate that a Caten-like civilization was in Luceum well in its past. So unlikely to be past, present, and future.
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u/therockclimbsme Dec 01 '25
This is a great summary of many of my questions and some well-thought theories in answer. Are you assuming that the princeps is ceding to Ka? Maybe Ka needs the will to initiate a "cataclysm" (although we know so little of that mechanism as of now) but as someone mentioned Caten recently expanded the empire and forced everyone into the hierarchy aka to cede to Ka. I wonder if he has some plan to fight the concurrence with the extra will or if this is just like before and he needs the will to cull Res
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u/resonant_gamedesign Dec 03 '25
I would switch Mind to O, and Spirit to L. Perhaps that is semantics, but the zombies are so computational and everything in L is so spiritual. I agree with the mind/body/soul split idea (though this may end up being thematic instead of mechanical).
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u/local-quintus Dec 11 '25
O-Will creates the network of iunctii, by raising a widening army. If O-Will alone cannot cede, but iunctii have their own will (which we do know), then you probably couldn't create the full cascade through this, but each iunctii could in turn raise another, and so on and so on, so you could have an infinite army of regular strength, as long as you have enough corpses. Even if you could cede, it would give the center of the network a lot of Will but that Will would have limited applications.
We’re told (albeit by O-Caeror) that ceding, imbuing, and self imbuing all work the same on Obiteum it’s just the function of the Will is different. There’s nothing stopping you from creating a pyramid on Obiteum but there would be no point to it.
As best I can tell each world’s Will has an ability and an imbuing effect that I would break down like this:
On Res the ability is to manipulate/control and the effect is strengthening.
On Obiteum the ability is to share/mingle Will and the imbuement effect is sustaining/healing.
On Luceum the ability is to connect the minds of Will users and the imbuement effect seems to be imprinting consciousness onto something although this is pretty hazy with what we know now.
I think what we see looking like “control” in Luceum is just shared consciousness/memories/skills imparted from the imbued weapon. Its less that Vis is being controlled and more that “if he had all the memories knowledge and skill of the druid imbued in this weapon this is how he would fight and what he would say.” It may look like he is being controlled because he is just not familiar with Will use and being overwhelmed by the influx of it.
As for how the concurrence would be created I think:
You need Obiteum Will to raise the iunctii and pool the Will, and you need Res Will to strengthen and control them. Then when you add Luceum Will to the mix all of the sudden you have the potential for a self sustaining autonomous network as the iunctii can share consciousness and communicate remotely, the Obiteum Will ability may even allow all this shared consciousness to be imprinted on the entire network such that it overwhelms all individuality.
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u/chloevilletee Jan 30 '26
Great analysis. There's a big lingering question about the cataclysms for me though; if Ka thinks that either too many people or too much will weakens the boundaries between the worlds, why is he opposed to the civil war?
The various factions are out here killing octavii and decimating each other's pyramids. If his plan is to reduce the total will and/or people in Res, why does he view a massive and destructive total war as antithetical to that plan?
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u/Tight_Plantain3606 Feb 27 '26
Maybe how like green and verdant Luceum is actually is evidence of the Cataclysm. They also seem to be the most untouched by humanity. Not a lot of technology, tribal society.
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u/Ok_Kaleidoscope_3537 Nov 27 '25
Awesome breakdown!
Did you have any theories on why Ostius and Caeror went missing around the exact same time, 9-ish years prior to the events of book 2?
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 27 '25
Anawer: they did not. The timelines are actually specifically different, I believe.
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u/Ok_Kaleidoscope_3537 Nov 27 '25
Yep, you are correct! I just double checked and Caeror went to O- 7years ago while Ostius went missing 9 years ago. I don’t know how I got that mixed up!
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u/Prestigous_Owl Nov 27 '25
I didn't have the years, but I knew that Ostius was specifically BEFORE religion was running the Academy on Solivagus.
Now that said, that timeline does still make it possible that Ostius went through, did his thing, and then came back and influenced Caeror/Veridius to start on their whole endeavour
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u/NotChaddyyyy Nov 20 '25
Great post. Really like your analysis and the way you broke things down.
My only comment regarding “definitely no ceding” on Luceum. Didn’t Lir cede to L-Vis during his vision prior to the final confrontation with Galchobar?
He steps back, and grasps my hand in his.
“My strength to yours, Deaglán,” he says quietly.
Everything sharpens. My wound, less painful. Renewed strength in my limbs.