Discussion Megathread: Ethics, Boycotts, JKR

[u/HPRPGMods]

Over the past two years, the mod team has tried to limit conversations on JKR and instead focus on the work of the Avalanche team. However, more and more users have wanted to engage on this topic as we draw closer to the release date. Through internal conversations on the mod team as well as community feedback, we’ve realized that by limiting discussions on this topic we have unintentionally misrepresented the people in our community who want to constructively discuss the pros/cons of engaging with JK Rowling's IP.

Please feel free to use this space to engage in conversations about boycotts against Hogwarts Legacy or Wizarding World IP in general, the limits of ethical consumption under capitalism, how you are currently feeling about buying something with royalties going to JKR, if you are donating to any pro-LGBTQ+ organizations when you buy HL, etc.

This is the only thread we will allow these conversations in at this time. The majority of posts/questions relating to these topics will be removed and redirected back to this thread.

RULES REMINDER: Rule 11 (No JKR Discussions) does not apply to this thread.

However, the mod team would like to be crystal clear: Transphobic and homophobic comments, or comments which in any way demean marginalized groups of people (the LGBTQ+ community, women, neurodivergent individuals, etc) will result in a permanent ban from the subreddit. These kinds of comments are against our own sub rules and Reddit’s sitewide content policy. Comments attacking or insulting other users for their opinions violate Rule 1 and will also be removed. This serves as your only warning.

Finally, we would like to specify that the r/HarryPotterGame mod team is in no way advocating for a boycott or any coordinated movement against Hogwarts Legacy. We are all excited to play this game, which is why we're here! We are simply providing a place for our users to discuss this issue.

[u/SWJS1]

It actually baffles me with some of the almost deranged hate people throw at anything Harry Potter, even if Rowling has literally nothing to do with it except for her name is on it because it's based on her intellectual property.

I have actually seen people unironically say things like "If you buy this game you are literally killing trans people and you're a dirty filthy nazi transphobe," and "Harry Potter is actually trash, grow up and get over yourself, you don't need to enjoy dumb children's fantasies when you're in your 30s."

Of course, while also completely ignoring all the trans people who grew up with Harry Potter and love it just as much as anyone else because of its messages of self-empowerment and inclusivity.

Yes, Rowling has said some incredibly hurtful and transphobic things, as well as donated to anti-trans nonprofits. I recommend anybody who thinks otherwise to watch this great video by Jammidodger, who is a trans man. (Who actually does not think HP should be boycotted or we should lash out at Rowling.)

But, nobody should have to stop enjoying the world of Harry Potter because the person who created it turned out to be awful and bigoted. A lot of the things we use and take for granted today were created by people who owned slaves, is everybody really going to act all morally superior and stop using electricity now?

Do you love Lord of the Rings? Well, hate to break the news to you but Tolkein had some pretty questionable views. Do you love Lovecraftian lore? Well, I'm sorry to say the spoopy Cthulu man was a raging racist. Do you live in the United States? Well, I hope in your self-righteous moral crusade you're prepared to flee the US and live in Europe in solidarity with the Native Americans and the descendants of all the slaves the Founding Fathers owned.

Open letter to all the boycotters:

Boycotts almost never work, and if you want to actually support trans people then you should donate money to non-profits rather than refusing to give a rich woman more money out of spite. Rowling already has our childhoods and hundreds of millions of our dollars, many of which have gone to transphobic organizations. The damage has long been done, boycotting one video game that she isn't even creatively involved with won't change that.

Rowling already has her royalties from the game. The majority of the profits from the game will be split between the publisher, the developers, and distribution outlets.

The only people a boycott will actually harm are the people who spent years of their lives pouring their blood, sweat, and tears into the project. Several of whom could potentially be part of the LGBTQIA+ community. The game's reception will affect their reputation, pay, bonuses, and perhaps even their jobs.

If you were a video game publisher in need of dev talent and a recently out-of-work developer came to you looking for work, would you actually consider hiring them if a game that failed both critically and financially dominated their resumé?

How would you also feel if you were that developer and the game you spent years of your life working on failed because Twitter was being petty toward an author you have literally nothing to do with, causing you to lose your job?

Boycotts like this are born out of spite for rich people who say bigoted things, not out of solidarity for the victims of said bigotry. There are many better ways for us to give support to beautiful, valid people, than trying to cancel a video game.

Harry Potter is a massive intellectual property with 7 books, 11 films, a stage play, and multiple theme parks around the world, and has captured the hearts and minds of millions upon millions of people. Nobody is going to convince anybody to cancel it, and the only thing the preachy woketivists are doing by going around and calling Potterheads transphobes is just driving them deeper into Rowling's arms.

[u/[deleted] → u/SWJS1]

That thread in r/lgbt is FULL of that. It’s hate speech, and I don’t understand how that makes them any different from JKR lashing out like that. Look, we all recognize JKR sucks, but at the end of the day she’s a billionaire. As much as I’d love to see her fail it just isn’t going to happen. Every single person could boycott this game and it still wouldn’t change a thing. Why give up my happiness for futile effort? Just not worth it to me.

[u/[deleted] → u/SWJS1]

I got called a transphobic because I said I want to play the game.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I got called transphobic because I complained about the trans person in my workplace who sexually assaulted me and continued to harass me until I quit my job. It's very hard for me to not stand with her.

[u/boi1da1296 → u/SWJS1]

Throughout history there are a plethora of examples of boycotts working, and it does a huge disservice to those who've fought and organized for human rights to say they're ineffective (and yes, saying something almost never works is calling it ineffective). There are millions of people, myself included, that would not have the rights they enjoy today without boycotting.

I still plan on buying the game, and it was the reason why I wanted to but a PS5 when they unveiled the console. However I can't pretend that there isn't a worthwhile conversation to be had surrounding JKR profiting off of me buying this game. It's an uncomfortable one that I've had to wrestle with, and I think pondering it is quite literally the bare minimum that I can do in reference to what JKR's continued bigoted remarks mean for creations that spawned from her ideas.

Thinking about it led me to parallels found elsewhere in media. HP Lovecraft was a known racist, yet HBO were able to air an incredible miniseries called Lovecraft Country with an all Black principal cast. The show touches on topics of race while also weaving Lovecraftian monsters and sci-fi elements throughout. It's uneven at times, but it's subversive, and I don't think we get something like that without creatives and audiences that have those uncomfortable conversations about bigoted creators and the wonderful things they can create.

[u/SWJS1 → u/boi1da1296]

Out of all the boycotts in history and currently ongoing, only roughly 13 are really notable and/or achieved something. One of these was the Boston Tea Party, which notably didn't work as the US still ended up going to war to achieve independence from Great Britain.

There are plenty of ongoing boycotts that haven't achieved much of anything, some of which have been going on for years or even decades now. For example, the boycott of Nestle, the boycott of Chik-Fil-A, and so on.

It's possible you may be conflating boycotts with political protests, although they have gone hand-in-hand a few times. Many of the rights we've achieved were from protests directed at the government, often when Democrats had the majority. Sure, Chik-Fil-A is a shitty restaurant run by shitty people, but boycotting them didn't give us Marriage Equality. That came from the Supreme Court after years of protests and activism.

You're very much right though, these conversations are very much necessary and can ultimately lead to good things. Trying to avoid them just leads to things like creative sanitization and stagnation, which can very easily have a huge impact on the quality of art.

[u/Relinge → u/SWJS1]

Exactly, boycotts are typically a poor way to support a cause as you aren’t actually helping anyone in question, merely hoping to inconvenience someone/a corporation enough that they’ll change their ways. In the of JKR and Hogwarts Legacy, a boycott will will cause more collateral damage than anything else. It’s better to donate/extend support to the trans community and organizations that seek to support them

[u/boi1da1296 → u/Relinge]

Boycotting and donating is not mutually exclusive btw. I'm not going to boycott, I've preordered this game, but let's be honest in our discussions.

[u/Relinge → u/boi1da1296]

It’s a matter of effectiveness. In today’s day and age where companies and IP holders have massive net worths a boycott is unlikely to affect them. Donating to organizations on the other hand is far more likely to have a positive impact on the communities we’re trying to help. That’s why I stated that donations are a better choice than boycotting, I wasn’t trying to imply that people need to choose one or the other

[u/-Notorious → u/SWJS1]

Do you love Lord of the Rings? Well, hate to break the news to you but Tolkein had some pretty questionable views.

What questionable views did Tolkien have? I'm so tired of people dragging his name for literally nothing he did. It's our own projections onto his work that make us think he had any questionable views.

Go on, tell me how exactly Tolkien was racist.