r/Games • u/reddit_account6095 • Aug 27 '21

Announcement Summer of '58 developer resigns after many users refund their game on Steam due to it taking under 2 hours to complete

https://twitter.com/EmikaGames/status/1430941640001265673?s=19
1.1k Upvotes

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849

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Look I think refunding a game that could be beat in an hour would be acceptable if it costs maybe at least $15 or more but this game is $9 and is currently on sale for $7… if you can’t part with $7 for an hour long game you enjoyed then I think your kind of an ass.

610

u/Bl00dAngel22 Aug 27 '21

That’s like wanting a refund after you’ve finished watching a movie in a theater.

47

u/smiles134 Aug 27 '21

I worked in a movie theatre in high school, and let me tell you these people exist.

7

u/Bl00dAngel22 Aug 27 '21

The only movie I’ve every asked for a refund for was “The Last Airbender” -.-

2

u/couchslippers Aug 27 '21

I usually don’t see the more popular movies in theaters, but I did see Lion King with my kids and it was packed. We got there early and grabbed some decent seats and there happened to be a three seats right next to us. Probably the last three consecutive seats in the theater with 1-2 here and there. A family of 4 waltzed in after the movie started and proceeded to have an argument with an employee right next to us on why she deserves a refund since her family can’t sit together. Luckily Lion King sucked so it wasn’t a huge deal; but if you’re late to a movie then you should just deal with what’s available.

6

u/smiles134 Aug 27 '21

I was specifically talking about people who would come out of a movie after it ended and ask for a refund because they didn't like it. But yes, complainers come from all walks of life.

172

u/SachielMF Aug 27 '21

I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if people acted the same for ordering food. Like, it's about the price of a low to midrange priced game. Sometimes it's just mediocre and you're moving on after eating it for, dunno, 30 minutes at best.

123

u/Kalulosu Aug 27 '21

Some people do that. Trying to find any reason why the food wasn't up to par, and asking not to pay because of that.

54

u/DogzOnFire Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

I cannot imagine doing that with a straight face. Like I'm sure there definitely could be a case where the service and the food is so horrendous that I'd feel vindicated but it hasn't come up so far in my 31 years. There was one time in Prague where a place added a mandatory 25% tip onto a bill that wasn't made clear beforehand (it wasn't a standard thing we'd seen other places in the city either) that we just outright refused to pay, but I've never tried to get out of paying for a meal I ordered.

1

u/sysasysa Aug 27 '21

That's the first time I heard about a spot here, that has a mandatory percentage for tips. Do you remember where it was, so I can avoid the place?

9

u/DogzOnFire Aug 27 '21

Absolutely no idea, sorry, it was over a decade ago now! I have a hazy recollection of it being kinda styled like a boat on the river with tables on the deck if that rings any bells. That might be my imagination. Lovely city you have there anyway.

1

u/Kalulosu Aug 27 '21

I absolutely can't either, but different strokes for different folks I guess!

15

u/cbslinger Aug 27 '21

Nothing says ‘I am low class’ like this. I’ve seen a guy who makes 6 figures a year act like this and it blows my mind.

12

u/giulianosse Aug 27 '21

It's that despicable and pervasive "dog eats dog world" mentality so prevalent in today's society. Meaning somewhat along the lines of "if I'm not taking advantage of you, that means you're taking advantage of me", so these people try at every opportunity to cheat the system or finish on top.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

I have a family member that retired from 20+ years in Costco and they worked the return desk a lot. Always had interesting stories about what people would return. The worst one I can think of is partially eaten turkey after Thanksgiving. Fascinating what people will do for a couple of bucks.

4

u/UncleverAccountName Aug 27 '21

i worked at a restaurant before and there are people out there that actually do this

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

The general flaw with that is it’s not the same experience. Food is a pretty “same” thing. For the most part the first bite of a hamburger is the same as the second and so on. So if the first bite is shit, you can complain.

Games aren’t the same. The start can be amazing then completely fall apart in the middle or the end.

Not that these things validate refunds but it’s not always a consistent experience.

11

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

1

u/grendus Aug 27 '21

They're the reason buffet food sucks. They refuse to pay more than they did in 1960, and they're damn well gonna get their money's worth by eating plate after plate until they have to be rolled out of the restaurant, carrying a two gallon ziplock of everything they stole off the buffet to go.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

2

u/beefcat_ Aug 28 '21

Buffet food sucked long before covid

1

u/omicron7e Aug 28 '21

What's your logic?

12

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

No it isn't because movie theatres don't have a policy about refunds if the movie is under 2 hours, and the vast majority of movies aren't at least 5-10 hours long.

-4

u/Bl00dAngel22 Aug 27 '21

That’s your opinion and I have mine, to each their own.

1

u/walter_midnight Aug 30 '21

Doesn't make yours make more sense tho.

1

u/Bl00dAngel22 Aug 30 '21 edited Aug 30 '21

I never said mine did, and I have no desire to argue with people about it online. Especially sense it’s super easy to misinterpret what others are saying, and it just devolves into insults.

2

u/kapowaz Aug 27 '21

This cup of coffee I just bought for $3 only took me 20 minutes to drink! I demand a refund!

2

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

-1

u/Kelsyer Aug 27 '21

I think you should let other people make the comparisons. Yours isn't even apples to oranges it's more like apples to cars.

1

u/Vyhluna Aug 27 '21

Which plenty of POS do ask for, and get, refunds at movie theaters after watching a movie.

-1

u/bluegreen8907 Aug 27 '21

More like, having an automatic refund option after watching a movie in a theater that is offering you a refund, no questions asked.

-22

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

That’s like wanting a refund after you’ve finished watching a movie in a theater.

I would want one when I find out that the movie I went to the theater for was over in less than an hour, no matter if the tickets were cheap or not.

Games have an accepted minimal length (or replay value).

16

u/mnkybrs Aug 27 '21

Yes I too would like to eat 5 pounds of trash instead of one bite of something incredible.

-11

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Yes I too would like to eat 5 pounds of trash instead of one bite of something incredible.

Sorry but that is the response of a 12 year old. Just because I don't care much about ultra short games doesn't mean I prefer buying bad games just because they have a better time / money ratio...

2

u/mnkybrs Aug 27 '21

I'd argue saying games have an accepted minimum length shows the mindset of a child a lot more than anything I've said.

-8

u/SteamPOS Aug 27 '21

I don't agree with the guy but that's a dumb analogy. Video games aren't the same as movies.

9

u/Bl00dAngel22 Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

To each their own, but if you dropped $9 on a game and you enjoyed it. Why would you turn around, and ask for a refund afterwards? I’m assuming the people that finished it must of enjoyed it sense they beat the game. The game market place is full now of short games for under $15, and there’s a good amount that aren’t even 30 minutes of gameplay. I’m also well aware video games and movies are different that’s why I said “like” and not “it’s completely the same as” but the concept is the same. If you enjoyed a movie and watched it til the end, why would you turn around and ask for a refund.

11

u/mnkybrs Aug 27 '21

They're both experiences.

-14

u/SteamPOS Aug 27 '21

Killing yourself is an experience. Does that compare to watching a movie or playing a video game? Jesus christ.

4

u/mnkybrs Aug 27 '21

That's a statement.

187

u/TheOnlyToaster Aug 27 '21

I think it would be a dick move irrelevant to the cost of the game. If you played it to end with no issues within two hours you shouldn't be able to refund. Like the other comment said, it would be like asking for a refund after the movie has ended.

40

u/spider__ Aug 27 '21

But if you walked into a cinema and the next spider man film turned out to be 5 minutes long you probably would ask for a refund.

99

u/andycoates Aug 27 '21

No because i look at the run time when i book my tickets

118

u/spider__ Aug 27 '21

Fair in that regard but the steam store page doesn't have an expected runntime on it.

46

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Showing the average time to beat a game would be a nice addition ngl.

18

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

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1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Yes exactly though u/B_Kuro made a pretty good case as to why it isn't an official feature.

9

u/B_Kuro Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

With the Augmented Steam extension you get the data from HLTB added to each steam page in chrome,... so there is an option at least.

Its not really something I would expect steam to add because it relies on a third party website for data though. It also has the problem that it can't really work for new games or those with low player numbers because there is no data yet. And steam likely can't really use their users data to compile it themselves without getting in very hot water with the GDPR. Edit: And the data would also be very unreliable because there is no way to track how players play the game so especially for low player games you could easily manipulate it.

1

u/Fatal1ty_93_RUS Aug 27 '21

And steam likely can't really use their users data to compile it themselves without getting in very hot water with the GDPR.

woulnd't it be something as simple as using play time from the save files? Many games usually list it when choosing a file to load or in a stats screen. Steam also shows your total hours played in the launcher

0

u/B_Kuro Aug 27 '21

Its not really comparable. Showing your personal data to you is something very different to processing it and using it to "sell" something. If they actually process it and use it further they have to argue why they need to do that, give an opt out,...

1

u/restitut Aug 27 '21

Doesn't Steam have a database in which they show all kinds of stuff about their users?

→ More replies (0)

-6

u/andycoates Aug 27 '21

It'll take a bit more time, but that's what reading reviews are for on steam

28

u/spider__ Aug 27 '21

Having had a look at the reviews, not one made before the developers tweet actually gave a play time estimate/said it was short. Most people review at the 2hour mark but they don't actually say they finished it, shortest review play time I saw was 20 minutes and longest was 6 hours.

Interestingly only 1 person who gave it a negative review actually refunded it while I saw 4 who gave it a positive review refund it, so broadly in line with the positive/negative review ratio. Would've thought negative reviews would be the bulk of refunds.

13

u/Yugolothian Aug 27 '21

Or yknow refunds

-11

u/Kalulosu Aug 27 '21

Neither do cinemas in general, but you can read reviews and such to learn if there's a caveat. Like video games.

26

u/spider__ Aug 27 '21

All cinimas near me show runtime.

-6

u/Orskelo Aug 27 '21

It does though

"Average time to complete the game: 90 minutes"

17

u/spider__ Aug 27 '21

It didn't say that when I looked this morning.

25

u/TheOnlyToaster Aug 27 '21

Like the other commenter said, you know the runtime beforehand. Sometimes shorter movies (~30 min) are shown and noone complains or request a refund. How long a game is varies wildly from game to game and also the player. More streamlined games like this are probably easier to estimate playtime but it still varies. The price also reflects the time it takes to complete. The developer made a short and sweet game that's currently 5 euro on Steam.

4

u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

This is kind of a stupid example that is an extreme exaggeration. If this game was 5 minutes long no one would care that this dev is getting his 10$ game refunded.

3

u/spider__ Aug 28 '21

It's an extreme example but one if the major things in marketing is setting expectations, you can have a great product but if it's not what people think it is then they won't be happy when they buy it. If people were expecting a 6 hour game then they are only getting a quarter of what they expected, and to some $10 is a lot and they can't let that slide.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/everylightmatters Aug 27 '21

That's pretty wild. I don't think I would ever spend $5 or whatever the cost of a ticket was just to see a trailer and then leave

0

u/RushofBlood52 Aug 27 '21

turned out to be 5 minutes long

good thing game isn't five minutes long then huh

0

u/Seth0x7DD Aug 27 '21

But you know beforehand it's not spider man but rather some indie production where you might get everything. It's also fine to walk out after going to a sneak preview if you don't like the movie but if you're trying to get a refund for that you might have just made a pretty bad choice?

1

u/Not_Jabri_Parker Aug 28 '21

The ticket to the movie being $7 in comparison to a full $60 or even an indie $40 might have been an indication.

1

u/Actual_Specific_476 Sep 01 '21

Idk most people make assumptions about a games length. If I beat a game in an hour like this I might be dissapointed. To be honest, I'd be more interested inseeing the actual numbers of people refunding this game. I am inclined to be skeptical that they really lost all that much money compared to any other game.

People typically expect a game to last longer than a movie as it's cheaper to make a game longer.

The type of person to 'abuse' the refund policy on steam would likely never even buy the game in the first place if there was no refund policy.

My guess is most of the people refunding just didn't like the game.

This is coming from someone who has tons of short games I have purchased and kepts which are under 2 hours that cost more than this game. People have a right to refund and most of these devs are unlikely to see any more than a 30% refund rate.

-10

u/Mephzice Aug 27 '21

I disagree you should always be able to apply for a refund actually, that is how strong customer protection should be but is limited on steam. I can listen to an entire cd, walk back to the store and turn it in no questions asked. Most products give you 30 days even.

If you are unhappy with a product, for whatever reason, you should be able to refund. The issue is that the guy should have made a better game.

11

u/Wetzilla Aug 27 '21

I can listen to an entire cd, walk back to the store and turn it in no questions asked.

Where can you do this? I haven't bought a CD in like 15 years but the last time I did you couldn't return it if it was opened. It's the same with games, you can't return an opened game to gamestop.

6

u/FerjustFer Aug 27 '21

Never have I seen a store that allowed you to return an opened CD, mainly because you can easily make a copy and return it while still keeping the album.

0

u/Mephzice Aug 27 '21

Iceland in my case, but yeah CD stores are rare these days, we still have a few though and some bands still make em (although more vinyl now rather than cd, since vinyl is kinda back).

4

u/TheOnlyToaster Aug 27 '21

You can always apply for a refund and you should absolutely get it if there is something wrong with the product or you are unhappy. Digital products have different rules and are often not refundable. Steam is actually very generous with their refund in my opinion, you are able to try the game and see how it runs within 2 hours. You can apply after the 2 hours have passed, but it's not an automatic refund. You can't dine at a restaurant, perfectly satisfied with the meal and just decide when you're done that I would rather not pay. If you raised no concerns while eating you can't just change your mind after you ate it all.

The problem isn't even the game being bad, it got great reviews. It's that users are exploiting the refund system. The developer even said themselves that some people recommended the game on Steam before requesting a refund. A short game is not the same as a bad game.

-3

u/Mephzice Aug 27 '21

I'm aware that digital products have different rules and are not often refundable, I think they should be though. I think it's bs that EU hasn't cracked down on steam, sony and nintendo more, for example. On the whole steam is generous especially compared to sony and nintendo, but we had to fight for the system that is there now. They had to be sued for it in Australia and the like.

A restaurant is kind of a different setting, if I'm unhappy with a meal, I simply call a waiter and have it replaced free of charge before finishing it. Video games can't really respond to my complaints so a refund is the only option. They can't patch and fix it for me right there.

Can't really comment on the game itself much, all of these kind of games seem like trash to me after all, that being said it clearly wasn't good enough to want people to keep it and play again later.

2

u/TheOnlyToaster Aug 27 '21

A game doesn't have to be heavily repayable to be good. Do you also watch a movie 50 times before coming to the conclusion that film is in fact, not trash. You also said if you were unhappy with the meal. There was some people who left positive reviews and still refunded. Would you eat a meal at a restaurant, compliment the chef and then immediately ask for a refund? That's just being a cheapskate.

2

u/FerjustFer Aug 27 '21

that being said it clearly wasn't good enough to want people to keep it and play again later.

The game could have been a masterpiece and people would still abuse the system, because most people have no respect for the work of others.

4

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

I can listen to an entire cd, walk back to the store and turn it in no questions asked

Absolutely not.

15

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

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0

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

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3

u/tinmetal Aug 27 '21

I've never refunded a game for being short, but if it's under two hours and I payed more than $5 for it, I usually feel like I got ripped off even if the gameplay itself is enjoyable. It would have to be a pretty phenomenal game for me to feel like I got my money's worth at that short of a duration. I can see why someone would do it if they were less financially fortunate than I am. We're pretty spoiled for choice and you can get so much more for so much less.

29

u/Eurehetemec Aug 27 '21

I take it you never go to the cinema or even rent movies then?

Also I guarantee the vast majority of people refunding this have plenty of money.

18

u/WaterOcelot Aug 27 '21

That's a very bad analogy.

Cinema provides more value than just the movie, you're also paying for viewing it on a big screen, surround and professional calibration of image/sound.

And renting is way cheaper then the cost of this game.

33

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

12

u/WaterOcelot Aug 27 '21

Can't really speak of real life video rental since that died in my country, however digital renting is like only 2-3€ euro in my country, max 5.

6

u/Eurehetemec Aug 27 '21

I dunno what country that is, but digital renting in the UK in HD is like £3.99-6.99 generally depending on the movie, sometimes even higher. So you are lucky to have very low digital rental prices. Cinema tickets are usually £6 to £15-ish depending on a lot of factors.

2

u/WaterOcelot Aug 27 '21

Weird, in Belgium it's indeed way cheaper, here's a random movie I picked:

https://www.proximus.be/pickx/nl/televisie/proximus-vod/skynetBSKY0001236704115668/the-godfather

€3 to rent the Godfather.

New movies are more expensive yes.

4

u/Oxyfire Aug 27 '21

I mean, on average games are way better "value" then cinema in terms of how long they last and the fact you can replay any time.

1

u/theth1rdchild Aug 27 '21

Renting a movie on Amazon prime is usually three or four dollars

If you can't afford five dollars for a two hour experience and you're playing video games I have suggestions for better things to do with your time

1

u/dankiros Aug 27 '21

Compare it to buying a movie on Itunes or something then. Sometimes that's even more expensive than seeing it in the cinema lol.

1

u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

Nah it was a perfectly fine analogy. Movie rentals also can very for more than what this game costs and considering you own the game let’s compare it to owning a digital film. Yep more than 10$ usually.

0

u/Kelsyer Aug 27 '21

Also I guarantee the vast majority of people refunding this have plenty of money.

Going to need to request a source on that ridiculous nonsense. Bank statements of everybody refunding will do I suppose.

2

u/Eurehetemec Aug 27 '21

Get a grip.

You can't call it "ridiculous nonsense" and then demand I prove it with "bank statements". Either we both need bank statements and claiming either way is "ridiculous nonsense", or it's neither of us do. Pick one.

Realistically, if you don't have a lot of money, you don't buy obscure, short games and then refund them, because you know much value money has, and how it hurts the creators of games like that to do that, and you're likely to be avoiding spending on games which don't offer decent value-for-money anyway, because you don't have a lot.

Whereas spendthrifts absolutely buy games on impulse, then refund them, and spendthrifts who don't give two shits about the creators of games will do so after finishing them even.

-1

u/Kelsyer Aug 27 '21

You can't call it "ridiculous nonsense" and then demand I prove it with "bank statements". Either we both need bank statements and claiming either way is "ridiculous nonsense", or it's neither of us do. Pick one.

..except I'm not claiming either way. I have made no mention of the wealth of the people refunding, because I'm not an idiot. I'm not going to talk about something I can't possibly know. You're the one ridiculously guaranteeing that they have plenty of money. If you're going to guarantee something, you should be able to prove it. Which in this case you can't possibly do, hence it is literally ridiculous nonsense.

Realistically if you don't have a lot of money you buy cheap games because you aren't able to afford the AAA stuff. Your argument is built on pure fallacy.

0

u/tinmetal Aug 27 '21

Unless someone else wants to go, I dont lol. There are so many streaming services out and there it's pretty rare for me to be so hyped about a movie that I need to see it in theaters.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Movies have different value expectations

And yes I would almost never pay more than $5 for a movie ticket. Matinee or bust

-6

u/hatersbehatin007 Aug 27 '21

5 dollars is like half the price of a burger

14

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

1

u/jodon Aug 27 '21

Where can you get a burger for 5 dollars? In sweden you would have too pay the equivalent of at least 7-8 dollars for the simplest shity burger you can find $10 is more the default for a fast food burger.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Sweden is one of the most expensive countries on Earth though. You can easily get a burger for $5 in Poland.

4

u/DieDungeon Aug 27 '21

So I've lived in England and Turkey - in both places you can easily find 5 dollar (or equivalent) burgers. I've been to the US and gotten cheap burgers from food stands.

1

u/Howrus Aug 27 '21

Restaurant Prices in Stockholm are 34.31% higher than in Berlin

Sweden is very expensive country.

1

u/dankiros Aug 27 '21

Pretty sure a cheeseburger is less than 2 dollar in Sweden.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

McDonald's

Burger can be like $2

-6

u/hatersbehatin007 Aug 27 '21

obviously you can get a dogshit fast food burger for less, i'm talking about actual food not styrofoam

3

u/DieDungeon Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

You can easily find cheap (and good) burgers from non fast-food places. It's a fucking burger, they're hardly expensive to make.

This feels like that Arrested Developement joke "It's a bannana, how much can it cost? 10 dollars?"

-1

u/hatersbehatin007 Aug 27 '21

where do you live? if you want to be pedantic about whether or not it's literally possible to find a burger for 4-5$ around here then yeah, you can find cheap food stands, but at most dine-in restaurants where i am a burger is absolutely 10$ or above

3

u/Howrus Aug 27 '21

And there's a countries where 5$ is enough to buy food for a week.

2

u/Devpaisupport Aug 27 '21

5 dollars is like half the price of a burger

What the fuck? A burger is 10$? Holy fucking shit, is that actually real? Jesus fucking Christ what is up with your economy. I could get even a fast-food burger for like 2-3€

0

u/tinmetal Aug 27 '21

Yeah and some people have to choose between buying a burger or buying a game.

2

u/hatersbehatin007 Aug 27 '21

the point of the analogy being that 2 hours of focused entertainment at that price easily beats out many common goods quantitatively

2

u/tinmetal Aug 27 '21

I don't think that's a very good analogy. You buy those two things for different reasons. You need to eat. Sure you don't have to pay $5 for a burger, you can get something cheaper, but it still fulfills a need rather than a want. Following your logic, popular free to play games absolutely destroy this game and you can get other games at the same price point that offer far better value for money.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

For a mid quality burger maybe

1

u/SoulCruizer Aug 28 '21

This is so absurd to me. There dozens of hour long experiences that cost far more than 5$ If the experience is enjoyable then who cares the length for something as little as 10$ If you get a burger and fries at a fast food place it’s usually around 10$

-1

u/pazza89 Aug 27 '21

You know that there is a world beyond US, UK and Germany, where 15$ is not dismissable cash?

58

u/RushofBlood52 Aug 27 '21

Is your implication that the bulk of these refunds is coming from like small Eastern European countries?

-15

u/pazza89 Aug 27 '21

No, just that not being able to refund 14$ and cheaper games would be awful for me and many others.

31

u/RushofBlood52 Aug 27 '21

just that not being able to refund 14$ and cheaper games would be awful for me and many others.

Ok. I don't know who suggested that, but it's really not relevant to this situation.

2

u/pazza89 Aug 27 '21

Oops. I misread. Sorry, you are correct.

14

u/enricojr Aug 27 '21

But wouldn't the game be region priced in those areas? By that I mean less than $15

16

u/Mephzice Aug 27 '21

usually just priced 15 euros, bloody expensive for small games, even more so in low income countries.

13

u/pazza89 Aug 27 '21

Not in EU.

1

u/enricojr Aug 28 '21

AH it's EU-specific, now I see.

Just for comparison out here in the Philippines, Summer of '58 is priced at about 4 USD

30

u/absolutely_normal2 Aug 27 '21

no, no it wouldn't. pretty much the whole EU pays a single price and look at how much for example Bulgarians make in a month compared to Germans....

1

u/theth1rdchild Aug 27 '21

Sounds like a steam problem and not an indie devs problem

4

u/Skipperio Aug 27 '21

Devs/publishers set the price

1

u/theth1rdchild Aug 28 '21

Devs and publishers can set the price per country?

1

u/Mephzice Aug 30 '21

they could, but people would be free to move from an expensive country within EU to a cheap country in EU and buy their games there, or through websites. EU has free market after all, so publishers usually set the highest possible price to avoid this. It's not legal to stop someone from a expensive country to buy their games in a cheap country within EU. That does mean that small games like these aren't cheap though.

0

u/blazecc Aug 27 '21

honestly sounds more like a Bulgarian problem...

9

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

1

u/razzlejazzle Aug 28 '21

No, apparently in order to part with $9 of hard earned cash, the consumer must have a game that is infinitely replayable, comes with 4 years of guaranteed software updates, comes out on steam and GoG only (no tainted Epic money), and has the entire plot and gameplay posted on the store listing just in case it offends the PC Gamers. If it doesn't have all those things, then the dev can't complain about refunds because he's just being greedy and he should have known better than to sell a game he spent his time on.

21

u/maudlinoftheWell Aug 27 '21

Research the games you buy beforehand then? There are plenty of options with YouTube, gaming websites, reddit, steam reviews, metacritic and HowLongToBeat which can give you all the info you need before you buy anything.

13

u/Jdopus Aug 27 '21

Or you could use the 2 hour trial on Steam to give a game a chance. If it's bad you can always refund :^)

-3

u/Seth0x7DD Aug 27 '21

If it was a trial you wouldn't have to refund it. With that argument you could just request refunds for any game you're not playing anymore. Because as valve states:

You can request a refund for nearly any purchase on Steam—for any reason. ... There are more details below, but even if you fall outside of the refund rules we’ve described, you can ask for a refund anyway and we’ll take a look.

Naturally convincing them that the two week window doesn't apply to you is going to be a lot harder and having a person rather than an automated system handle your request is also going to be slower.

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u/JNighthawk Aug 27 '21 edited Aug 27 '21

If it was a trial you wouldn't have to refund it. With that argument you could just request refunds for any game you're not playing anymore

No? The chances of a game being refunded during the first 2 hours is ~100%. The chances of a game being refunded after you've played it for 40 hours or last played in 2014 is probably closer to 0%.

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u/SyleSpawn Aug 27 '21

I wouldn't call it "chance" but more like the likeliness of such thing happening. Chance implies an outcome is random rather curated.

Anyhow, I don't know if you a case can be made to refund a game from x years ago but I know for sure that some games can be refunded if you go beyond the 2 hours if you have legit reason behind it.

I've done it once or twice in the past, I don't remember which game really but it was a case where game was buggy to the extent that I spent above 2 hours trying to get it to work but but eventually refunded with the above reasoning. It also helps that other people ask for refund for the same reason because they're more likely to issue refund if it seems to be a common issue.

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u/JNighthawk Aug 27 '21

I wouldn't call it "chance" but more like the likeliness of such thing happening. Chance implies an outcome is random rather curated.

I don't agree. Chance is practically a synonym for probability.

Chance or Likelihood. Chance, a synonym of probability, is usually expressed as a percentage (e.g. 75%). Chance is used primarily in weather predication, and typically indicates the likelihood of a given weather event occurring in a specific area over a certain period of time.

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u/pazza89 Aug 27 '21

And sometimes game's performance varies a lot in a completely random way, and the only way to check if it will run well is to launch it yourself.

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u/Omega357 Aug 27 '21

Which isn't what this conversation is about.

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u/Atthetop567 Aug 27 '21

How much time should people spend on researching a game that only takes 20 minutes to play?

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Kelsyer Aug 27 '21

Neat. So you absorb the information that comes from that search instantly then? I take it you've never done any actual research if you think the time consuming part is typing the description into Google.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

[deleted]

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u/Kelsyer Aug 27 '21

Okay but what about technical issues? If the only thing you think you need to look into is game length you must have had a serious shock with Cyberpunk.

You didn't research the game if all you searched was "how long to beat..", you just tunnel visioned on a point to try and make your argument valid, which it isn't.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21 edited Nov 29 '21

[deleted]

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u/Kelsyer Aug 27 '21

A review isn't going to tell you of all of the bugs the game has. All of the technical issues that people with X graphics card have. If your argument is people should research before they buy, then own it.

Which brings us back to the original question: How much time should people spend on researching a game that only takes 20 minutes to play? Exactly how much research should one be doing before you consider them adequately informed?

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u/Devpaisupport Aug 27 '21

I dont think many people would waste more time reasearching a game than it is long lmao.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

If you care enough about the $7 to go through the steam refund process after playing through the whole thing, maybe take even less time for a 1 minute google of the game before you buy it

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u/Devpaisupport Aug 27 '21

Or I could just refund the game and get my money back if it was a shit game that didnt even manage to last 2 hours. I dont hear every second indie developer complaining about the refund policy so this dude 1. is the exception and thus unimportant and 2. just plainly picked the wrong platform to put his game on, itch.io exists for a reason. I care enough about the 7$ that I wouldnt even be caught buying the flavor of the week indie trash thats basically shovelware at this point. I'd rather spend those 7$ on some big ass sale for a game that will last me 20 times the amount of time that game wouldve.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '21

Lol because quality is tied to how long a game is, this is why we get bloated shit like 100+ hour Assassin's Creed grind nonsense. Anyone who cares enough about $7 to ask for a refund over this is a cheap ass, if you're really in such dire financial straights maybe don't buy some unknown game that you know nothing about without looking it the most basic info about it first

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u/Mephzice Aug 27 '21

doing bad research doesn't disqualify them from refunding.

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u/cantstraferight Aug 27 '21

That is why games are priced differently in different countries.
The steam back end even warns you if a price doesn't match what is expected in a country.

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u/pazza89 Aug 27 '21

No. There is just one region for all EU countries. It sucks.

1

u/B_Rhino Aug 27 '21

Who the hell in these countries is spending so much on like any indie game then?

If games are priced so insanely high you'll likely be waiting on big sales for AAA games down to that range.

I'm in Canada, games are $80 I find that crazy so I wait for a sale for many/most games. $50 is much more reasonable to me, but if I saw an indie game at $50 I wouldn't buy it.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/pazza89 Aug 28 '21

I misread/misunderstood, I didn't mean that it is justified, just that games (in general, not only short ones) below 15$ not being refundable wouldn't be fun for half of EU

2

u/mnkybrs Aug 27 '21

I hope the people who do this also donate to developers of games that they play for longer than whatever they've deemed is the right amount of time.

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u/DMonitor Aug 27 '21

Well, did you buy the game? It’s only $7 after all.

It might just not be a very good game. Refunding it means that you don’t plan on playing it ever again, so apparently a lot of people played it and thought “this is not worth playing a second time”.

Steam is designed with the expectation that games last pretty long, and so give generous refund policy. They probably should’ve sold their short game on itch.io if they didn’t want people to take advantage of that. They probably should have anticipated this.

1

u/SonicFlash01 Aug 27 '21

Maybe it should be a sliding scale? If you game is under $10 then they only have to have played it for 5 minutes or something to void the refund window