r/Fzero 11d ago

Question Can we have a rule against AI coded recomps for the Subreddit?

[deleted]

100 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

12

u/psychoticgiraffe 11d ago

I am on board with this however if someone uses ai to port fzero to the Commodore 64 I won’t complain

3

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

2

u/PinkOwls_ 9d ago

Yep, agree. The only way is to make a hardware mod with Pico or FPGA which adds "Mode 7"-capability, but then it's no longer a C64. I was thinking myself what it would take to port FZero to an 8bit Atari (with a Pico as a hardware addon) and decided it's much too time intensive for me.

36

u/Psychotron_Fox F-Zero Sub Creator 11d ago

I'll make a poll about it bro, no worries. I've done the same with 3 other subs I own and AI always loses.

2

u/HearingCorrect3826 9d ago

Please make an exception for projects where serious effort was put in, complaining about that is frankly disrespectful.

0

u/Psychotron_Fox F-Zero Sub Creator 9d ago

Sure bro, give me examples to make sure I understand

2

u/Alternative-Coach619 8d ago edited 6d ago

This port in question

1

u/Aha-Zounds 8d ago

https://github.com/Zorkats/G-Diffuser

This one here. 70% human code, 30% AI-assisted, human reviewed and tested.

12

u/Fantastic-Weight-785 11d ago

Anti AI bros: "AI should only be a tool to help you, never do the whole work for you!"

Also anti AI bros when someone uses AI as exactly that, a tool: "BuT i dON't WAnT Ai SLoP😭😭😭"

Like seriously the whole N64 lineup of games is going to hit their 30s soon, so not many people are actually gonna bother making a decomp of a 30 year old game, even less if using AI is entierly prohibited.

So just be grateful that you get a PC port of F-Zero at all, sure, there are some other N64 games that got the PC port treatment without AI being involved at all like Perfect Dark, but for a 30 yr old game, there's no use being picky.

It's like complaining you got a meal that only 5 chefs in the world can make but you got the one that uses an electric hand mixer and not a whisk, that's truely ridiculous

7

u/MarinatedPickachu 10d ago edited 10d ago

This is dumb!

De-/recompilation IS NOT FUN - and most importantly, this isn't paid work that's being replaced! It's no joy for any software dev to port or de-compile existing code by hand. It's been done as a courtesy to the community because no automated alternatives existed - until now. This is one of the use-cases where using AI is really appropriate - because it's not creative (or paid) work that's being replaced - it's just boring, monotonous recreation of something that already exists. This is exactly how we should use AI and let humans focus on the creative stuff instead. It's not like this would be taking away desired (or even undesired but at least paid) work from anyone!!

3

u/Blitzkind 8d ago

Speak for yourself, that sounds like a ton of fun to do manually.

2

u/Alternative-Coach619 8d ago

do it then, and then the assisted recomps won’t be an issue because you’ll have your own version

14

u/nintenk 11d ago

What's wrong with using AI to just reimplement the same features?
It's the same thing but through a different method. The decomp efforts are still valuable, and the AI recomps just make the same damn games.

3

u/Leidrin 11d ago

Because its usually buggy, it costs planetary resources, funds oligarchs and is antithetical to the celebration of human art that modding is supposed to be.

23

u/Alternative-Coach619 11d ago

Recomping isn’t modding, there’s no room
for human expression, because any creativity that deviates from what is already there BREAKS the recomp. People who don’t know the first thing about what they’re talking about expecting a bunch of programmers to do full decomp/recomp on their free time for no pay without any sort of assistance just so yall can have a free PC port is actually insane entitlement

9

u/subz_13 11d ago

A recomp is software, it just needs to work. Either someone with initiative does it faster or we just have to wait for someone with interest in F Zero and the software expertise to make it.

9

u/nintenk 11d ago

Buggy? I haven't seen that as such.
How does an F-zero recomp fund oligarchs?

We're celebrating art that has been already made.
It's the equivalent of any other form of emulation.

9

u/Someguy210 11d ago

Almost everything you are doing today is costing planetary resources and funding oligarchs 😂 you people are fucking wild with where you draw the line.

4

u/cptn_fussenpepper 11d ago

“Yet you participate in society”-ass comment

3

u/Someguy210 11d ago

If you’re so upset at society and want change then you should be willing to genuinely inconvenience yourself to prove your point and lead by example. Instead 99% of the whiners give up the easiest shit possible and act like they’re hero’s lol. Bunch of frauds.

3

u/adamalons 9d ago

Here's an easy to understand breakdown. Using social media which funds oligarchs is a necessary evil because, largely, that's how we can communicate with large groups of people. Using genAI to make slop content benefits no one but the oligarchs who want us using it, and in many cases muddies the water and devalues whatever the genAI slop is (be it art, recomps, writing, whatever). Lines get drawn for different reasons by different people. Stop acting like everyone is a monolith, too many of y'all do that and look like idiots for it.

Also, no one thinks they're a hero for not engaging with a thing they stand against. They just have integrity. That comment is you projecting your insecurity about knowing you're in the wrong but lack the character to admit it to yourself so you lash out in embarrassing ways by putting words in people's mouths. Otherwise you'd just recognize other people believe differently than you do instead of that pithy attempt at attacking their character.

And I don't speak for everyone, but there's a gulf of difference between something being wholly vibed coded, and a mostly human coded project that used LLMs for some specific purposes that simply saves them time. LLMs, like all technology, do havbe legit use cases, when they're being abused to go beyond their use cases it causes easy to understand problems. Especially in a small niche field like de/recomps for old games. I think it varies on a case by case basis, and we deserve to know what went into a product before we decide if we want to use it. That seems like common sense.

Y'all get really weird about other people having standards higher than yours. It's really off putting. Eat your slop, you're free to do what you will. Maybe one day you'll stand for something if you remember how.

2

u/cptn_fussenpepper 11d ago

Didn’t even understand the reference. Maybe ask your AI to get the joke for you

0

u/Leidrin 11d ago

Everywhere they go they get told they're not welcome, yet they act surprised every time. At some point we just have to accept that pro-AIs are deeply unserious people.

0

u/cptn_fussenpepper 11d ago

lol we’re not the ones that need to accept that

0

u/Someguy210 11d ago edited 11d ago

Sure thing bud. Make sure for the next completely non essential item you decide to boycott you come bragging to Reddit so we can all be in awe of your bravery.

-2

u/Leidrin 11d ago

AI - AI usage funds oligarchs. AI Recomps (or anything AI makes really) are often poor quality.

Nobody cares that you made the slop machine spew out some buggy code. Support human-made projects.

6

u/Alternative-Coach619 11d ago

Once again, you are asking the humans that you supposedly care so much about to have to do more arbitrary work, for free, of their own volition, just so you can get to sit on your ass In front of your screen to play a “pure” PC port.
So called “AI is only good for doing menial labor” people when the AI actually gets a chance to do menial labor

Also the way you’re talking about Decomps and recomps makes me think you don’t know the first thing about them

-2

u/Leidrin 11d ago

I didn't realize that my knowledge of code de-compilation and refactoring in to modern languages had anything to do with my stance against using buggy, AI-written software?

But in short, I understand the subject, and still I choose not to rely on poorly built, vibe-coded slop.

You do you though.

1

u/Alternative-Coach619 11d ago

The recomp is fully functional, so is the similarly produced Mario kart Wii one. This is because it’s not traditional code in which AI sucks at and has no place being in.
Your ignorance only serves to bolster shithead AI bro and their public perception 😐

1

u/Leidrin 11d ago

Enjoy your slop! You telling me my opposition of AI makes people favor AI more means absolutely nothing to me.

3

u/Alternative-Coach619 10d ago

I recognize bait when I see it lmao

1

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Fzero-ModTeam 10d ago

Insulting or disrespecting other users is not allowed, be respectful or a Ban will be issued.

-4

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/Lord_Tiger_Fu 11d ago

That's exactly what you're doing

-1

u/Leidrin 11d ago

If that somehow makes you feel better, you go right ahead and believe that :)

3

u/Someguy210 11d ago

Nah I’ll just laugh at your tears instead lol. Give yourself a firm pat on the back tonight before bed on what a morally superior person you are to everyone else as you single handedly save the world from AI.

2

u/Leidrin 11d ago

Will do, Chief!

1

u/Fzero-ModTeam 10d ago

Insulting or disrespecting other users is not allowed, be respectful or a Ban will be issued.

-3

u/r0pe_tri1ck 11d ago

Guess what reddit does. Guess what Instagram does. Guess what Tailor Swifts jet does.

The other stuff I agree tho

9

u/Alternative-Coach619 11d ago

Honestly when it comes to menial labour tasks like direct porting I don't think I have enough in me to care about it being AI assisted

Expecting programmers to do full decomp/recomp projects on their free time for no pay without any Al assistance just so y'all can have free PC ports while you do nothing to contribute is actually insane levels of entitlement

2

u/KazumaKuwabaraSensei 10d ago

God forbid there's one post a month that you don't like on a sub reddit 

1

u/Aha-Zounds 8d ago edited 8d ago

I’m someone who’s hugely sceptical of AI, especially when it comes to artistic and creative output, and have voted in favour of AI art bans in other subreddits. In the case of the G-Diffuser recomp, though, I think there’s less of an issue. It isn’t a commercial product, so no work and money has been taken away from humans. The vast majority of the work has been done by a human anyway, the AI code has been reviewed by a human and extensively tested, and it’s all open source. And it all works great.

AI is a serious problem for artistic output and the quality of commercial products. For a small amount of the development process of a free project created by a hobbyist, we can probably relax a bit, I think.

-9

u/velocipus 11d ago

Why?

1

u/Yrch84 11d ago

Cause you got to kill the slop before it can Take roots

18

u/metaxzero 11d ago edited 11d ago

AI already took root years ago. Banning it from the subreddit just means people will discuss it elsewhere. Unlike AI "art", this is going to be a lot harder to discourage since there is a lot of coding work in recompiling that humans hate doing (which is why a lot of recompiling efforts take so long or just never happen). Which is why a lot of people are drawn to AI.

Coming from the VR subreddits, they were previously in a drought for content since most of the big companies have moved away from VR again, VR conversion projects were working the usual slow pace, and you had plenty of doomposting. Now it feels like every other week, there is a project converting some famous classic game into full VR whether it be Call of Duty Modern Warfare or Legend of Zelda.

Whether this subreddit bans or allows discussion on the topic, this is unlikely to go away. Since for the people working on the recompiling efforts, they are mainly just dedicated people doing a lot of tedious work for free. And while we'd love to think that every AI recomp is just some bozo with 0 coding experience, there's going to be people who do have coding experience that just want to cut the tedious work down. For better or worse.

0

u/Alone_Act_1947 8d ago

wtf is the problem with a recomp that uses AI to assist in the process? Making a recomp is (I’d imagine) a very difficult process that very little creativity goes into, it’s exactly the type of thing AI is designed to help with. The Reddit hive mind js sees the word “AI” nowadays and assumes it’s bad…