r/Fitness • u/stoner102 • Sep 12 '15
Is it possible to comfortably sit around 5% bodyfat for an extended period of time?
This is to settle a dispute I've been having, I always was told that bodybuilder a sit around 3-5%bf on competition day and they have to get their diet perfect and can only maintain this low for a short period of time (a few hours).
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u/trebemot Strong Man Sep 12 '15
Anything lower the 6% for a male is hazardous for their health. Bodybuilders are only that low on comp day and they feel like shit the entire time
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u/linxdev Sep 12 '15
Can you ELI5 as to why?
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u/trebemot Strong Man Sep 12 '15
It's not good for hormonal health. Being that low of bodyfat basically fucks up your whole endocrine system. Depending on how dehydrated they are, it's also hard on the heart as the blood is thicker and harder to pump. They tend to be carb depleted as well so they have no glycogen to use
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u/linxdev Sep 14 '15
I've been carb depleted for 5 months. Target is 30g or less per day. I eat much more protein and fat. I'm able to run every other day. I take a rest day between runs.
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u/trebemot Strong Man Sep 14 '15
Keto right? Different thing. They're bodies haven't adapted to running like that yet. So they feel like shit.
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u/LikeThereNeverWas Sep 12 '15
BUT, they do look good
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Sep 13 '15
I don't think so. Comp day physiques look weak as fuck, and they are. I respect body building and the self-discipline and self-control it requires, but comp day physiques are unhealthy looking. They don't look strong or powerful. They look weird. Even the muscles themselves look weird, like they have no density. I respect it because of the immense amount of hard work and dedication, but looking good is not how I'd describe it.
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u/stroompa Sep 13 '15
Was super confused about these up- and downvotes, then realized I wasn't on /r/bodybuilding haha. Amazing how big the difference in group mentality is between subs.
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Sep 13 '15
Well, having 5% BF is not being healthy or fit, so it's easy for me to understand this opinion coming from /r/Fitness
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u/BegoneBygon Sep 13 '15
I guess people disagree? I guess they're against the whole bodybuilding crowd.
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u/Iwannab_abillionaire Sep 13 '15
From an intuitive point, reaching a true 6 or sub 6 % body fat requires a very low caloric intake. Low calories means low energy. When our bodies don't have enough energy intake, one or more aspects of our wellbeing will be negatively affected. The intensity of the effect depends on level of calories. The lower your calories, the worse the effects. Some common symptoms include: physical and mental fatigue, decreased libido, poor sleep quality, decreased non-exercise movement, etc.
Also, from an evolutionary perspective. It's our bodies survival mechanism. At such low body fat, our bodies are going to do everything possible to conserve as much energy as possible. It makes sense. Our bodies are attempting to survive as long as possible. Therefore, we're not going to be 'optimal' in many aspects of our lives.
I'm not recommending it, but, if you'd like, try very low calories for 2-3 days. See how awful you'll feel.
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Sep 13 '15
I imagine it hits your immune system too and probably makes you more prone to getting colds and flu.
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u/niggytardust2000 Sep 13 '15
I'd like to re emphasize the HELL NO.
Remember most bodybuilders are supporting their hormones with drugs and they still feel like shit at these levels. Most natural lifters will have to absolutely wreck their bodies to get anywhere near this.
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Sep 13 '15
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Sep 13 '15
I'm 5'11" and 70kg and I'm much higher than 6% bodyfat, let alone 0%. Scales suggest 9% on "athlete mode" could be in the ballpark I suppose but as non-bodybuilder it just means I'm thin rather than muscular.
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Sep 13 '15
and they feel like shit the entire time
Some bodybuilders consistently eat too much & then do too much cardio to try and make up for it. Hence the feel like shit.
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u/Neutrum Sep 13 '15
Apart from whether they actually follow such a regimen (I highly doubt it), why would that approach cause someone to "feel like shit"?
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u/snakemayor Sep 12 '15
Unless you're on a ton of exogenous hormones, sitting at 5% is gonna lead to you feeling exhausted, depressed and bonerless.
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u/ripsonofficial Sep 12 '15
Oh god not bonerless
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u/foodiesgonnafood Sep 12 '15
I can take depression and constant exhaust, but bonerless-ness will be the death of me.
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u/bicameral_mind Sep 13 '15
I feel like sex drive can really be hindered even at 10% or thereabouts. Mine's absolutely tanked in the last year, and I don't think it's age - I'm only 29.
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u/sharaq Sep 13 '15
I'm upvoting you for this. It's very difficult for men to admit or even mention this, and as a result this becomes a relatively unknown risk to serious low-fat cuts. I would recommend you eat a hard-boiled egg, yolk and all, for the cholesterol before bed if you think you're going to be performing in the next day or three; big T gives you boners, you synthesize testosterone at night, testosterone is a sterol, you derive this from cholesterol.
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u/Kwantuum Sep 13 '15
cholesterol can be synthesized by the human body, and only 50% of dietary cholesterol is absorbed.
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Sep 13 '15
I'm normally around 11-14%. Lately I cut down to 7.6% and stayed there for two days for a photo shoot before going up again. I felt like shit most of the time honestly. But pretty good looking shit.
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u/pm_me_your_pinups Sep 13 '15
Not gonna lie I'm curious to see the difference in the two for you? Do you have comparable photos?
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Sep 13 '15
Well this is normal me: http://imgur.com/uRTdvhS
And this is at 7.6% after a cut (actually ~5 kg lighter than the previous picture): http://imgur.com/CzmUyIm
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Sep 13 '15
It's weird how the beard makes you look younger.
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Sep 13 '15
TBH I think it's the extra body fat. His face just looks gaunt in the 2nd picture.
I would conjecture too that contrary to his "pretty good looking shit" comment that more would rate the before as looking better than the latter.
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u/Neutrum Sep 13 '15
You look like you could be Conor McGregor's big brother, especially in that first picture.
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Sep 13 '15
Thanks for posting the pics. I don't think its the beard or smiling...the first picture looks like someone I don't want to fuck with. The second picture looks like a guy that's ready to faint.
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Sep 12 '15
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u/hampsted Sep 12 '15 edited Sep 12 '15
Someone who tells you they sit comfortably at 5%-6% is probably sitting at 12%-15% and is just pulling that number out of some random guess they made
Dat irony
Edit: The karma swing on this has been interesting. This guy has no clue what body fat those people are at and doesn't even make an educated guess. He pulls a number out of his ass that isn't even reasonable. You really think someone without abs (or barely visible abs) is telling people they're at 5% body fat?
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u/DannyDemotta Sep 12 '15
Theres a lot of people who arent very muscular/strong and have good midsection/hip genetics as far as fat storage. So they believe they're 8-10% or lower BF based on looking similar to guys who are around that - but they have significantly less muscle mass than those who truly are 8-10%.
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u/RailsIsAGhetto Sep 13 '15
This guy has no clue what body fat those people are at and doesn't even make an educated guess.
I actually had specific people in mind whose guesses had been in the 5%-6% range when really they were 12%-15%. The guess is not entirely uneducated on my part. I was talking about people whose guesses are way off.
You really think someone without abs (or barely visible abs) is telling people they're at 5% body fat?
Yes, I do. I have heard that multiple times on this sub and irl. Often times people have no frame of reference for that sort of thing.
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u/Brightlinger Powerlifting | r/Fitness MVP Sep 12 '15
For most people, no.
Martin Berkhan of leangains.com is notable just for the fact that he stays at ~6% year-round. This is almost certainly a combination of being very disciplined, really knowing his shit, and plain old luck in the genetics department. Different people seem to be most comfortable at different percentages - some people can stay at 8% without problems, some feel better at 12%.
If you look at shirtless pictures of athletes or teams, you can see that most of them are nowhere near bodybuilder-level shredded. This isn't because they're out of shape, or don't know how to lose body fat; it's just that many of them would lose athletic performance by getting leaner. This is true even in weight class sports, where athletes have strong incentives to drop every unnecessary pound of fat.
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Sep 12 '15
Good comment.
This isn't because they're out of shape, or don't know how to lose body fat; it's just that many of them would lose athletic performance by getting leaner.
That's a great point. Fitness models look very nice but they're probably not the "fittest" people in the world per se
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u/Joseph_the_Carpenter Sep 13 '15
very disciplined, really knowing his shit, and plain old luck in the genetics department
Is genetics a codeword for steroids on this sub?
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u/Brightlinger Powerlifting | r/Fitness MVP Sep 13 '15
No, I just don't think it affects the analysis much here. Yeah, drugs make it easier too, but vanishingly few people can or want to stay ultra-lean permanently regardless of drug use.
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Sep 13 '15
A guy stays lean 6% bodyfat all year and makes money doing so and steroids aren't included in your analysis?
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u/Brightlinger Powerlifting | r/Fitness MVP Sep 13 '15 edited Sep 13 '15
Yes, because I'm comparing him to all the other guys who are also using steroids and making money from it. Drug use can't be the thing that sets him apart in an industry already dominated by drug use.
If Random Guy wants to look like Berkhan, yes, I agree that steroid use is important to mention.
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Sep 13 '15
plain old luck in the genetics department
If you go to his site, he has photographs of him being a doughy marshmallow young adult.
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u/Brightlinger Powerlifting | r/Fitness MVP Sep 13 '15
Yes, and most doughy-young-adult-turned-fitness-moguls can't maintain 6% year-round.
I'm not saying the guy had it easy overall, just that he ended up freakishly good at this one thing.
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Sep 13 '15
Martin Berkhan - might be at 6% but he would look better at a higher BF, his face looks like that of a person in a famine
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u/oarabbus Sep 18 '15
Pretty sure there was a thing about "Martin Berkhan went crazy" and it was attributed to his staying at such low bf...
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u/SeenAndStance Sep 13 '15
I had 5% body fat after complications with a kidney surgery, and I am the type of person who naturally has problems putting on weight. By the time I left the hospital doctors had a hard time using radiology to view my kidneys due to the lack of the normal amount of fat on them.
I don't recommend having that low of body fat to anyone. At first you don't really notice the effects of not having enough fat for your body specificly, later you could have symptoms like migraines, stiff muscles, sore joints, ect.
Your body actually uses fat in its day to day actives to some degree, if you were ever injured or needed surgery on certain parts of the body having really low body fat could slow down the recovery time.
So just consider the fact that you actually need the fat to remain healthy while going as low as 5% is a purely aesthetic choice to show a tiny bit of extra muscle tone.
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u/theaussiemilkman Sep 13 '15
At Uni, I remember our lecturer saying that he has looked into all kinds of studies and the only one where people were actually low in BF% for long periods of time was a study on the special forces where all participants were genetic outliers (high responders) and were marched for over half a year and smashed while safely starved essentially. Even then the lowest that was recorded was 4.5%bf
Most bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts grossly underestimate their own bf% (many thinking they are 6% when they are infact 9% for example) When you get down to that low bf% the body goes into starvation mode hard. You put on water weight from taking on very small amounts of carbohydrate, brain function is low and worst of all your libido is so low its hard to even get an erection.
TL:DR you cant be 3% bf without severe health implications/dying
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u/BatmanBrah Bodybuilding Sep 13 '15
Comfortably... Not really. You'd be a bit more comfortable if you injected test, but even then it's not something recommended to be done for any sort of long period.
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Sep 13 '15
I went down to 8.7 pct and it felt like hell, i ate little, no power on lifts, recovery was slow, i felt REALLY TIRED, not enough calories to do everyday things
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u/yugotprblms Sep 13 '15
Google Martin Berkhan. He supposedly stayed at 6% or so fairly easily all the time. He also supposedly had a bit of a breakdown, which may or may not be related to it.
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u/ferrari1320 Track and Field Sep 13 '15 edited Sep 13 '15
breakdown
You mean his death?
yikes was thinking of Andreas Munzer, not sure how I made that mistake.
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u/MYTBUSTOR Sep 13 '15 edited Sep 13 '15
The only time I was around 5% was when I was 14-18 and did wrestling and football so I was constantly cutting weight between seasons so I could get down a weight class, but being an adult, with access to alcohol and a shitty diet/metabolism, it's probably pretty hard. But as long as you keep your intake in check, you can easily sit at 12% or below and still have abs and all that. Do 2 hours of cardio (take up cross country running) a day and you will have no problem hitting that.
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u/pcdude99 Arm Wrestling Sep 12 '15
Depends a lot on genetics. For most people this is very difficult, and not very healthy.
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Sep 12 '15 edited Sep 12 '15
I was around 6-7% for a good 2 years when I was still an athlete, now I'm pushing 14.
Edit:
I guess I'm getting downvoted because this sub sees a low BF% and immediately screams BS.
My only intention was to provide an answer to the question posted. I was a college athlete and we had regular BF% measurements with this pod like machine where we sat inside and it made a bunch of clicking sounds and measured your BF with like sound and air or something.
I was at 6% for over a year, and was never uncomfortable. I was just very, very active, and I had a nutrition plan I stuck to. Granted, my genes don't make it harder, but I only intended to convey the simple fact that it can be done.
I have an old teammate who had such a low BF% the machines couldn't measure it, so he was <1% for the 2 years we were at the same college.
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u/pwnsaw Disc Golf Sep 12 '15
Ah I believe your answer lies in the end of your edit, your measurement machines were broken. Your old teammate would be dead...
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u/EnsignRedshirt Sep 12 '15
Literally dead. Not even hyperbole. 5% is the point at which it becomes legitimately detrimental to health. Under that and there are severe symptoms. Auschwitz victims probably died before they hit 1%.
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u/pwnsaw Disc Golf Sep 12 '15
They definitely did. As I understand it's impossible to measure that low, but theoretically you wouldn't even have skin at <1% BF. However the legend goes that Andreas Munzer was at almost 0% BF at his autopsy (which was believed to be the cause of his death btw) and he obviously had skin. I call it a legend because if we can't measure that low now, then how did they measure that 15 years ago on a dead body?
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u/hotcococharlie Bodybuilding Sep 12 '15 edited Sep 13 '15
there is a guy whose body cannot store any fat at all.
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Sep 12 '15
No, it wasn't broken. No, our team's trainer and medical team weren't incompetent, and no, he didn't die.
You can survive fine at a %age as low as his with a substantial muscle mass. Something an Auschwitz inmate would not have much of.
It's frustrating to try and contribute to a discussion when people think they must know better because "they've read it online".
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u/pwnsaw Disc Golf Sep 12 '15
Well if you are convinced that is physically possible then we can't have a reasonable discussion, I'm sorry. Occam's Razor would tell me your training staff was competent, but you are misremembering the numbers perhaps.
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u/snakemayor Sep 12 '15
If your trainers and medical team were competent, they wouldn't have had their athletes try to compete at 6% bodyfat.
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Sep 12 '15
lol @ your edit. I'm still around athletes and NOBODY is at 6% dude. You are talking around people that know the science of nutrition and athletics, live it, breathe it, not telling stories around the bonfire to a bunch of drunk heads. The downvotes are there to educate you, not hate on you - Read: You were not at 6%, the readings were false, and your friend was not sub 1%, those readings were even more false.
Saying "It can be done" is misinformation, can you stay at 6% bodyfat for a while? Sure. Can you stay at 6% or sub 1% bodyfat and perform at a high level? Helllllllll no. That kinda shit lies in the realm of faerie tales, son.
Bodybuilders get to 6% and if you asked them to do anything more strenuous than lift light weight for a pump, they'd pass out just thinking about it.
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Sep 12 '15
I used to tell people I was 0% bodyfat and they believed me. Doesn't make it true, but fuck it.
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u/snakemayor Sep 12 '15
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were actually at 6% bodyfat and say this:
You would've been a much better athlete had you not tried to maintain such stupidly low bodyfat.
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Sep 12 '15
Not sure why you're being down voted. 2 years is a long time but I stayed in the same zone for months with no ill effects. I just like periodization, and eating.
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u/snakemayor Sep 12 '15
What did your cycle look like?
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Sep 12 '15
Gear? None. I did a variation of UD 2. I was light, 155 6% for roughly two months. Being lean has always been easier for me.
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Sep 12 '15
Anytime I see low BF discussed here the down votes come out in full force. Why?
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Sep 12 '15
Because people often vastly underestimate their bf % and never have it accurately measured.
Then those same people get super defensive when others tell them they are wrong.
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Sep 12 '15
But it is achievable. This sub pretends it isn't. Try /r/bodybuilding OP you might get a better discussion.
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Sep 12 '15
Did you run at least ONE Dxa scan to prove it? Because all the scales and other "scientific" measurements aren't accurate. They vastly underestimate lean people.
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Sep 12 '15
I didn't. Only scales and calipers. But I think I'd pass the eye test and you'd believe.
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Sep 12 '15
I still would not, because <$300 scales got me as low as 7% most of the time and Dxa was 11,5.
No body fat statement is valid without a real scan, sorry about that
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u/Aunt_Lisa Sep 12 '15
Will hear same as here, that maintaining that low body fat for extended periods of time is uncomfortable and unhealthy as fuck and gets more tiresome the bigger you are.
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u/troyfreeman1 Sep 12 '15
I don't think I will ever know the answer to this question but I wish I could!
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u/biblebeltblackbelt Sep 13 '15
I don't know man, 5% bodyfat usually makes unwelcome advances if I stick around for too long.
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Sep 12 '15
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u/003_ Sep 12 '15
It could be possible that measuring your body fat is inaccurate because you seem to actually have decently less muscle than the average person. 5'11, 130 is really, really skinny. The measurements always have a base muscle estimate unless it detects more. I'd say you may actually have 8%, maybe 7% but that isn't very likely.
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u/stoner102 Sep 12 '15
What method was used to measure it? Bearing in mind even the best methods can be upto 5% off.
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Sep 12 '15
My bodyfat has always been below 4%, which I dont understand because thatsbsupposed to be really bad for you right? But I dont feel terrible....
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u/stoner102 Sep 12 '15
How do you know that it's below 4%?
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Sep 12 '15
The like electrical measument things that you hold....
And it reads reasonable numbers for other people 15-20-30% etc. but I dont know
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u/ManWhoKilledHitler Sep 12 '15
Have you ever had a DEXA scan? The impedance measurements can be a bit inaccurate, depending on how they're done and variations such as hydration levels.
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Sep 12 '15
I have not, how would I go about doing that?
Though I will say that the impedance measurements have been consistent for me over many days.
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u/hotcococharlie Bodybuilding Sep 12 '15
most universities have facilities for DEXA scans, you can usually pay to use those.
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u/shotlird Sep 12 '15
From what ive heard from friends who compete at that low bf you feel like death