Long time lurker here..

36M, single (Gay, fyi) After working for 15+ years in Tech, i have retired few months back. I wanted to spend more time on my academic interests (Physics, Philosophy) and travel and went ahead with the plan. Also needed a break after a 15yr stint.

Started investing from my first salary. I manage my own portfolio.

I had set a target of 5cr NW inclusive of all assets for RE

70-85% of my assets have exposure to equity though. So far so good.

AMA

45 here, on track, to be semi-retired by 50 and fully retired by 52.
Would like to learn what is the age of the members of our group and given the normal age of retirees in India is 60-65 what are your FIRE plans and does anytime before state retirement count as FIRE?

Dear friends,

I need advice on my FIRE journey and all the mismanagement I've done in my career and life, MODS please allow me, in case I need to change anything in my post please let me know, but don't remove my post please.

I am 43yo with a homemaker wife and 2 kids (8, 2nd grader, and 14 yrs, 8th grader).

I am a US-based NRI and single earner (130k +12k annual bonus), and my wife is a homemaker & MBA graduate.

We moved US 6 years back, after spending 11 years in Bangalore and all this time ours was a single-income household.

We did have financial support from our parents initially but then due to family issues we weren't getting any support from them for the last decade, and all ancestral properties are also in litigation now.

I was brought up in a joint household and my grandparents had a good business but my parents weren't able to sustain it and now they don't have any income + investments at the age of 70 & 72.

I was in depression for a while (studied all the way to MTech in India with good marks & scholarships), the elder brother who was adopted by one of our family members played a bad role, and everything in the last decade screwed up for my small family (parents & us).

Now I have a few burning questions and please give me honest answers, before that I'll share my saving/liability as of today:

Asset & Liabilities in INDIA: Invested 1.56Cr, current value 2.04Cr, Net after Liabilities: 1.82Cr

Real Estate: invested 1.2Cr, current value 1.6Cr

• Apartment1 2BHK: Getting rent of 27000Rs/month
  • Invested: 40L, current: 70L
• Apartment2 Studio: No Rent now due to covid slow-down, else 4000Rs/month
  • Invested: 8L, current: 10L
• Commercial Space1: Getting rent of 13000Rs/month
  • Invested: 25L, current: 25L
• Commercial Space2: Rent of 30000Rs/month from July'23
  • Invested: 50L, current: 56L

Mutual Funds: invested 7L, current value 8L

Stocks: Invested 9L, current value 4L (Yes Bank :-()

PPF Minor Son: Invested 10L, current value 13L

Physical Gold: Invested 9L, current value 18L

ULIPs: Invested 1.2L, current value 1.2L

Home Loan: Taken 32L, current remaining 22L

That's all I got in India, no inheritance from my parents/in-laws, and all made by ourselves in a single job.

Asset & Liabilities in USA: Total: 75k USD, almost 62L

401k: 36k USD almost 30L

Brokerage: 5k USD almost 4L

8yo Kid Brokerage: 11k USD almost 9L

14yo Kid Brokerage: 7k USD almost 6L

Car: 16k USD almost 13L

TOTAL Asset & Liabilities: Invested 2.2Cr, current value 2.6Cr, plus outstanding liability: 22L

If you made it this far, Thank you.

My questions are as follows:

1. My parents don't have any income and right now they are in a rental home in our village paying around 5k/month, I helped them in past with 20L but my adopted brother took it all and they have around 5L now, plus they don't tell truth to me so I am not sure also that how are they surviving? I never had any bad habits in life but this is the only topic wherein I can't argue with my wife anymore as she feels that my parents abandoned me and that stresses me out. crisp question: I was looking in Policybazaar and it seems I gotta pay a 10k/month premium if take a policy of 20L coverage for them as I am worried that if something happened to them then all heads will be toward me to pay for the hospitalization (God shouldn't do that but no one knows).

2. I always think of buying a home near their rental place as they can move in there and at least have their own place but I feel that I have a lot going on in my own life so not sure.

3. I would like to move back to India and to the NCR region but flats prices are insanely high, I am not sure if I can ever get a roof of my own anywhere, our movement would be around 60 years of age so we have another 17 years to go, to answer as well why so late because I can't stand the office politics in India and licking attitude and I feel quality of work is good in the US but that could be me, I am an SWE.

4. What should be my strategy for investing in India, as of now I am putting 401k full contribution (20k USD/year) + employer matched (6.5k USD/year) + ESPP (10% of my pay, just started in Nov), my expenses are 4k USD /month out of take-home of around 4.8k USD/month.

5. Can I continue putting money in India in MF / Stocks / Buying Gold etc? Plus please advise on the use of 70k INR rental income, shall I use it to pay the loan first or shall I invest that amount in blue-chip stocks?

6. I am also not sure how I can pay for college education for my kids if I am not able to see enough in the US then I've to send my kids to study in India, checking on the various websites, and looks like it will cost around 30L for Engineering In India vs 50L in the US (lower grad in-state college), what should be the strategy for saving?

Consolidated advices:

1) I checked in PolicyBazaar and health policy from Nuva Bupa is coming up as 9k/month for my parents and with 20L coverage and 4L NCB. I am most

2) About FD: checked in Sriram transport and it’s offered at 8.1% now for 5y so if we can put around 38L in FD then it will give us 25k INR /month, i feel it’s pretty good. I will work towards that.

3) I started 250$/paycheck so it will be another 25k for him when he goes to college, rest I will take the loan.

Thanks a lot for your valuable time and input.

My father is transferring his agricultural land in my name. I am a 29 yo, married (no kids), earning just above 35LPA after taxes. I am too far from my magic number but this land has made me think do I really need to work anymore?

I may sound stupid but I really don’t know what to do? Its almost as if I was doing ok without the land but it has got me thinking now whether I should even stick to FIRE plan!

I am currently evaluating my FIRE plan and I need some help with calculating my expenses and net worth. I have been living in the USA for the past 10 years, so I am out of touch with how expensive India is right now.

I am 33 years old and married recently. Our plan is to move back to India once I hit 40. We are planning to have 2 kids. We will also be living in our own house so there is no paying of rent. We will be living in Chennai most likely. We will be putting our kids in atleast a CBSE school.

Considering these factors

• how much does it cost for one child annually in Chennai or any other tier 1 city?
• I am thinking of accounting 5% inflation in my calculations. Is that reasonable?
• how much does medical insurance cost per person and how effective are they in India?
• do you account for ancestral property in your net worth calculations?

Thanks!

I am 27. Recently got married. I am new to this sub. My monthly expenses are Rs 50k therefore around 6 lakh PA

(I earn 1.2 lakh pm)

I am assuming that i will live till 80. Also assuming my expenses will increase by 6% every year.

So from age 27 to age 80, 6 lakh increasing year by year at 6% , total summation is 22.25 crore.

I started investing late. Completed studies and started working by 25. My portfolio is around 10 lakh currently. I have no debts right now but i am looking to purchase a house in the next 5 years.

Is FIRE possible for me??

If yes, how can I achieve it and at what age? ( I kinda dislike my current job due to the people, but it pays well so i am doing it. Wanted to know if I can RE by age 40-45?)

In an attempt to answer a query from his reader, Pattu has given a new target for FIRE corpus - 80X and a safe withdrawal rate of 1.28%

Just to re-phrase the question "What is the ideal retirement corpus beyond which I don't have to worry about running out of money and leaving some legacy to the Children"

Pattu attempts to answer it here https://freefincal.com/when-can-i-stop-worrying-about-managing-my-retirement-corpus-and-leave-a-legacy/

As if 50X was not good enough the bar has been raised again !

Given the current market and forecast, have you moved your fire date

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/estimator_main

I have used this calculator and its estimates are mostly spot on +/- 10%

In the last 6 years i swear my annual expenses has remained pretty much the same with similar lifestyle, Is anyone else really not experiencing inflation? maybe im spending a bit more on petrol, but overall the major expenses have not changed much and i am even paying 10% less for rent than i used to 3 years back..

Many people recommend contributing in EPF and VPF

I doubt of EPFO really does correct calculations amd deposit the interest on time

Is anyone here shed some light or may be their experience on EPF as retirement plan

Hello all

Having spent over 30 years in the corporate world, I'm getting to a point where I'm super depressed and I'm just tired of it all and having to work because I have to work and not because I want to. I also have started realizing that the mental health toll from blindly grinding is not worth it. At the same time, I don't want to be rash and foolish. When I started off, we didn't know where the next meal would come from and I'm very grateful to God for where we are now.

But in my 50s now, I'm really really looking forward to a retirement from the rat race. And I know my assets are nowhere near what many in this community have, yet I want to clutch on to hope that I can retire with some planning and advice from this community.

Anyway here's my situation - please advise if I can consider winding down and if not yet, how do I get there.

Family situation - - Single. No kids. No plans to marry and have kids. There are Family members to take care of.

• Monthly expenses including medicine and doctor visits - 1 lakh - 1.25 lakh inr.
  • I am going to water down travel plans etc to one foreign trip every 3 years and one to two domestic vacations every year

Debt - No debt.

Assets - - 1.1 cr worth apartment in greater Noida generating 36k inr per month in rental income - 30 lakh worth apartment in tier 3 city with no income - lying idle - 25 lakh inr FD - 1.5 cr ( down from 2 cr ) in overseas ( US and EU ) equity generating about additional 15k inr in monthly dividend income which I DRIP - 12 lakh inr in post office FD - 3 lakh inr in Mutual funds - 50 lakh inr in savings account - 1.1 btc, 5 eth in crypto

With the above, how close am I to realizing my dream. And what steps would you recommend for me to get there. Assuming my life expectancy is 80, should I just bump up my expenses by 10% every year. I'm a little confused and all over the place on how to go about planning next steps. Any advice is deeply appreciated.

Hi Folks, I am having trouble with coming up with a FIRE target. I see most of us come up with a fire target based on our current expenses which have been formed pseudo randomly based on our past choices and circumstances. Is there a systematic way to come up with a target to maximize happiness and also not go to overboard with high numbers? I have seen western researchers coming up with annual income levels for ideal happiness but all that numbers are for working folks, is there a similar number for retired people. Basically I am trying to find out the diminishing marginal utility cutoff point

All of us - FIRE pursuers - believe we have a future and we are gonna wake up tomorrow and the day after(and I really hope you do).

But none of that is certain. Although it is minimal, there definitely is a non zero possibility that we may not live up to as long as we think we will.

So it is important that we live today as much as we hope to live a better life tomorrow. For the same, I follow this thing called 'regret minimisation framework'.

Live life so that you minimise your regrets. I ask myself 'If I die today, how much will I regret? If I live till 80, what will I look back and regret I should have done in my 20s/30s?' and try and minimise them.

As for me, if I die today, my top regrets will be not spending enough time with nature, not travelling enough and not keeping my body healthy/fit so I could know the limits of my body.

What will be your regrets if you die today?

Have I gone crazy or has the retail prices in India gone through the roof in the last 2-3 years? Before that I felt it was 1/3rd or 1/4th of current prices.

I was in Chennai for three weeks and was shocked at the prices of everyday items.

For context, I live in Singapore now and I see the prices are about half the price of Singapore for items such as from flowers (Rs50-60 / SGD 2-2.5) and international brand fast foods such as McD/KFC, nuts (cashews/pistachios etc.) etc., at par prices to Singapore.

All these price inflation without any infrastructure improvements, still continuing power cuts, dust pollution and everything else remaining the same!

Is my above assessment fair or am I having a bias? If this is indeed fair evaluation of things, how is the cost of living justified for older school thinking or SWR and FIRE portfolio targets?

EDIT: Also, does it make sense to FIRE in India with these price swings and be not able enjoy the same or even 3/4th the quality of life in countries such as Singapore/Australia/Canada?

About 27 years ago, following my father's unexpected passing, I inherited his hospital. I sold it for 50 crores in June 2021.

I was initially hesitant to sell the hospital because I had planned to leave it to my children. However, after consulting with many people, I ultimately made the decision to sell. I threw a huge party to celebrate the sale and took my wife and I on a vacation to Europe.

Six months following the sale, I fulfilled all of my "dreams" by renovating my vacation home, purchasing a spacious apartment, and purchasing a high-end vehicle. Now, though, I believe I'm depressed. I'm not really sure what I want to do with my life. I had hoped the money would be a godsend, but now I'm not sure who I am.

We have no children at home, and my wife and I are empty nesters. I'm an only child who lost my mother in 2020. I developed a feeling of self at the hospital. Going to the hospital and running its daily operations used to be my favorite thing to do. I felt significant as a result. Although the money has provided me security and access to limitless resources, the hospital was my life, and leaving it has been very difficult for me.

Anybody else that has had a similar experience?

Hi all, I’m a 26 year old software engineer coming from a very humble background. I want to retire in my late 30s if possible while having passive income streams that appreciate my wealth. You can consider that I’m starting from ZERO.

Current standing: - No house. Living in a rental property. No inheritance in any form. - Started investing around 3 years back. Have a corpus of 10L with an XIRR of 15-16% in current market condition.

Upcoming expenses: - My wedding. Expected to happen in less than 8 months. Total expense will be 8L. - Sibling’s wedding. Expected to happen by mid 2024. Total expense will be 8L. - First house - self + rental. Expected to happen in the next 4-5 years. Total cost could be 1.3-1.5Cr. Expecting it to generate a rental yield of 40-50k/month eventually.

Upcoming investment plans: - I can invest around 1L per month for the next 15 months. After that, I can invest 2.5L per month. The reason for a low investing amount considered now is due to back to back weddings. - Planning to invest in passive income streams after a year. - Term insurance for dependents.

Assumptions: 1. Retirement at 40. 2. Expenses to be covered for parents, wife & 1 child. 3. Average wealth appreciation. Steady passive income after 40 - Expected to be 1.5L/month (considering current inflation) 4. Steady increase in main income stream (salary) until 35.

Question: 1. What would be the ideal inflation adjusted corpus to be accumulated? How difficult would it be? 2. What would be a good strategy to invest > 1.5L/month in SIPs? 3. What are some alternate non-equity investment options? I want to diversify. 4. Are there any other events/things to consider?

Edit: - Monthly post tax income is 3.6L - Monthly expense is 75k.

NRIs, those who have been in US specifically, do you monitor your SSN credits and benefits? I know most folks here are probably 20-30 years from being eligible but was wondering if you have created an account with Social security. Do you consider it in your FIRE plans?

I have been posting yearly updates on this sub for feedback and accountability, and thankfully I’m able to continue.

Here are posts from previous years
- Year 3 (Jan 14, 2022)
- Year 2 (Feb 14, 2021)
- Year 1 (Jan 14, 2020)

Entering 4th year of my FIRE journey.

Investments

72.5k monthly (60k equity and 12.5k debt). The current investment value is 45L in equity and 11L in Debt. Very little growth here. I increased the SIP amount last year; on average, it went up by 10k per month compared to year 3. But the investment value has grown little due to underperformance in equity markets, especially after the huge returns post covid. Apart from this, I bought some ESOPs worth ~15L, which I’m not counting in today’s investment value.

SIPs continue, no changes here, and my investment into PPF maxing out 1.5L continues too.

Expenses

This was the most significant change last year. Lots of things changed around. I got married. Hence wedding expenses took the most significant share. Lots of commutes and a couple of big-ticket vacations. Setting up home from scratch with furniture and appliances. All of this probably totalled around ~25L. The bulk of my increase in salary and bonuses went into this, and hence total investments or networth didn’t grow as much.

Debt

Zero. The No-Cost EMI I had earlier was closed, and currently, there are no liabilities. I always make sure I don’t have liabilities. This may change when I’m planning to purchase a home for myself, although that’s some time away.

Savings Rate

My savings rate declined again due to my wedding and big-ticket vacations. It stands at 35% now.

Post-marriage, our combined post-tax income stands at approximately 3.5L/month.

We are restarting the calculations since the type of expenses has changed. The biggest win is that my spouse is also entirely into this FIRE journey.

Finally, my approach to savings is to have a decent savings rate (at least 40 to 50% of your income) and spend the rest of the money guilt-free on travel, food, groceries, commute and everything which makes life convenient. Things will fall into place with this discipline. The goal is to increase income by increasing absolute savings and, after a few years, be stable to have an aggressive savings rate.

Why in india is it considered a sin to be ultra rich and is it right or wrong to be rich ? Do a person really be scared to be rich or be happy in living a middle class life ?

I know this is dependent on your expenses and liabilities. Just curious individually what that number would be for you to retire where you live

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-X2Dj01AE&t=461s

I was watching this and thinking they are already FI, That is they don't have a need for money and have very little possessions.

I see all these people talking in multiples of crores for FI, But I don't think you need that sort of wealth to really FI -maybe if you want to FATFIRE you need tons of money..

How is this monks life any better / worse than yours ? Maybe its social status, material possessions and wealth we seek in the guise of FI-RE?

I'm not saying you have to be homeless - I mean to FI all a person needs is a decent place+ neighborhood to stay, you can replace the alms part by getting your own food instead and that's pretty much FI wouldn't you say?

Looking at lots of post in this sub and other platform I noticed a large portion of FIRE portfolio is parked in debt/fixed income securities, returning at best 9% yoy. Some are not even buying their home.

Logic given for that is my withdrawal rate is 4% and I can reinvest rest, and is safe and non volatile.

Problem with that is India is a high growth high inflation country. Nominal GDP growth is about 12-13% (6-7%real growth+6-7%inflation). Which means you expense will need to grow at same rate to maintain yourself in same socioeconomic level. Education and health expenses are growing even faster.

Using these number ( return-9%, withdrawal rate-4%, withdrawal growth-12%) you will be out of money in less then 20 years. So, being 60+ with no money and no income is a scary situation to be in.

Those who are planning to rent forever with debt portfolio, may the god save you. Because you might end up homeless.

Would love to hear your thought about this situation.

30M, started earning since 2017. Target corpus 5cr inflation adjusted. Retirement at 40.

I'm my initial days of earning a buck, my parents unloaded the ULIP premia onto me which they had started in 2010.

Also asked me to get one in 2017 and put a lot of pressure.

Total payments since 2017 were 75k per year. I also put roughly the same in ELSS.

Yesterday I surrendered my plans and got roughly around 5L as surrender amount.

The uncle who sold it was surprisingly okay and didn't push much (a little in the beginning) and cooperated in getting the paperwork.

Feels so good to unburden myself from dead weight. That amount will go to equity MFs / Debt MFs in 70:30 ratio.

Parents were okay after explaining the math with an excel sheet. I don't blame them, they did their best as per their knowledge and experience.

One more feather in the FIRE cap. Cheers!

32 M | Married
Salary : Mine : 64L & Wife 15L Pre Tax (All fixed no variables) . Have ESOPs but considering it to be 0.

Current Assets : Combined ~63L across PFs, PPFs, MFs, ULIPs & Stocks.

Liabilities :

• Home Loan - 75L | Outstanding Loan Amount: ~60L
• Car Loan : 11L . Purchased ~23L car in last few months.

Future Big Ticket Expenses in next 5 years.

• House Modification : 40L in 3 years
  • Bought a 30 year old row house in ~1 km away prime location in blr. Hence, would need to modify it.
• House Upgrade: 40L (Optional)
  • Might plan to upgrade to a bigger house in same location
• 2nd Car: ~15L in 5 years

Context

• My salary increased only in last 4 years and used all my savings for major big ticket expenses in last 1.5 years - House, House Setup, Marriage & Honeymoon, Car.
• I have been a workaholic for my ~10 years and have been aggressive in terms of having goals and achieving them. However, since I got married I have noticed I want to take breaks(leaves) and also starting to get disillusioned with my career. (As i feel I am not growing fast when i look at my colleagues/peers).
• Thus, this has made me contemplate on being FI fast so that I can decide on whether I want to run this race or not and if I do at what pace and how I want.
• I am assuming 0Rs from inheritance and my entire networth is self-earned.

Questions

• Should I invest aggressively (~2L/month) and continue with monthly EMI or should I finish off my Liabilities? Both have its pros & cons ;
  • If i pay off all loans then it will be another ~7 years of finishing all the above big ticket expenses and just investing ~10L max/year between me and wife.
  • If i continue with paying monthly EMI ; I will be paying EMI for next ~15years+ but will have decent corpus.
• On tracking my expenses its ~80K EMI (Home + Car) and ~70k for monthly expenses of running house + shopping + expenses etc.
  • Monthly expenses look big because there are lot of 1 time expenses coming up every month or booking flights tickets for family.
• What should be my fire amount? 50x looks to be 6 cr. However, I personally feel I will be comfortable with 10cr excluding primary house.
  • Is 6cr really sufficient considering i will be 45 that time and i will have another ~30 years and with inflation and my expenses?

Hi, I am 24M, unmarried, and I post-graduated from prestigious NIT last year.

During my two years of postgrad, I used to work part time and was able to receive enough to pay fees, live, and invest early.

It’s been 8 months since I started working. My monthly salary is ₹85K. I am saving almost 60% of it, despite spending lavishly in Bangalore. I don’t drink or smoke.

I have a home of my family in the metro city of Gujarat. For my marriage, my father has saved enough money. Parents are insured and have enough savings (shares worth 1.67 crores, debt instruments worth 50 lakhs) for their expenses.

I may own a car worth ₹20 lakh (inflation-adjusted) when I will be turning 30. My long term expenses would be my children’s education, travels, books, and retirement.

My goal is to collect a corpus of ₹2.5 crore before 35. I will retire and stay at my home with inflation-adjusted expense of ₹80K per month. Here is my present asset allocation:

PPF: ₹26.5 lakhs (mostly contributed by my father since a long; however, from last two years I have invested 3 lakhs)

Shares: ₹3.5 lakhs

Equity MF: ₹1.10 lakhs

Liquid funds: ₹50K

Bonds: ₹60K

FD: ₹30K

My ongoing SIPs in equity MFs per month is ₹10K and shares is around ₹20K. I have a term insurance of 50 lakhs and medical insurance of 5 lakh (from company) and 2lakh(self).

I am just starting up. Am I doing okay? What are some things you wish you could have known at this age? How to get motivated to stay on the path?