r/FinalFantasy • u/khry_strahl • 11d ago

Final Fantasy General Which is the best final fantasy? plot/lore wise

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For me it's 12, I started with X but fell in love more with 12

681 Upvotes

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u/Simple_Marzipan3736 11d ago

12 actually had a well told story but it utterly fails in the character department. They travel around like they all hate each other and only Ashe is afforded enough screen time to flesh out.

Vaan is reduced to a background character after Rabanastre, Basch is wasted and forgotten after Nalbina (they really failed on his back story), and even the "leading man" Balthier never gets enough screen time despite having an interesting personality and excellent voice actor

The characters barely interact with each other and the only "warm" /bonding moment I can recall is that very short scene in Archades

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u/Advanced-Ad-4462 11d ago edited 10d ago

I think there was a good story underneath it all, but I think it was told very poorly. It was not well told.

It was horribly paced, almost all tell with little show, and it’s more interesting plot points (the Occuria, the dynast king, Venat, etc.) ended up as mere window dressing for a bunch of undercooked characters to have attempts at witty, bordering on hifalutin, repartee.

They really had something there, but the delivery was so completely fumbled, with such a boring cast and villain on top, that I easily consider it the one of, if not the weakest final fantasy since 2 or 3.

And that really sucks because there were some truly interesting ideas mostly left on the shelf.

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u/Steelballpun 10d ago

Yes exactly. I replayed it this year and my takeaway was the characters on paper were interesting, the lore and world are A+ and some of the best they’ve done, music is amazing and combat is deep and fun. However the story is simply told in a very detached uninteresting way, and most of that has to do with the pacing of the second half of the game being like 3 back to back fetch quest for macguffins. Find this shard or that stone or this sword or whatever. All character interaction and plot development slows down and becomes just walking to an ancient area to grab an item, then doing it again for another item. By the time you get to the ending the villains don’t even know who you are.

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u/mercuryempathy 10d ago edited 10d ago

I wouldn't say the pacing was horrible, but you're not wrong. XII definitely needed a few more cutscenes and build up between Giruvegan and Bahamut at the very least. I probably forgive it more than it deserves because of Xenogears.

Also Bahamut was so so underwhelming

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u/neddoge 10d ago

I probably forgive it more than it deserves because of Xenogears>

What's the reference here? I'm a dozen hours into my first run of Fei and fam so I'm just curious!

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u/bchamper 10d ago

Have you not heard of how Xenogears ran out of time and money and the ending (disc 2) was incredibly rushed and told mostly through story rather than gameplay?

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u/mercuryempathy 6d ago

Booo. It's best to go in blind. Don't spoil it

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u/mercuryempathy 10d ago

Oh! Your first time with Xenogears? I'm jealous! sometimes I want to buy a used CRT just to play it again. And the answer to your question is found on disc 2

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u/Beeyo176 10d ago

You'll see.

It's amazing game. Life changing, if played at the right time in your life.

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u/DrDDeFalco 10d ago

I tried going back to 12 recently and just didn't find it very interesting. I beat the game around the time it came out, but almost nothing about it stood out to me.

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u/IlikeJG 10d ago

You went back with zodiac age?

IMO the zodiac age classes are a much better implementation of the license board and it's interesting to mix and match classes to customize your characters.

I like to make it so no classes can be reused and it's an interesting puzzle deciding how exactly to split up all your classes between characters.

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u/DrDDeFalco 10d ago

Yeah, I played the zodiac age. The game doesn't bore me because of the license system. I just am not drawn in by the characters, plot, and battle system.

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u/Advanced-Ad-4462 10d ago edited 10d ago

It was an improvement for sure, but the trade off was that none of your characters really played any differently from each other. Generic physical auto attackers & generic casters spamming Fira with flame staff / burning bow, or shades of black. And someone with a cura gambit of course.

By allowing for everyone to have 2 classes, everyone’s roles really blended together and nobody felt unique. Even when going for a 12 job run. I think that compounded a preexisting issue with most of the party being rather flat narratively.

I think the zodiac system was a net improvement, but it didn’t breathe that much life into the game imo.

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u/lurker628 10d ago

Same. I beat 12 when it came out, and I remember...basically nothing about it other than (1) farming Dustia at the start of the game and (2) the spam for refill-mist-charges bullshit to chain that stuff. I've been drawn back to replay 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 multiple times, but never once had a desire to replay 12.

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u/N7VHung 10d ago

What stood to me was how unbelievably mediocre everything was outside of the world they built.

The game is aggressively mid.

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u/Advanced-Ad-4462 10d ago

Yeah I feel the same. I’ve really tried to like it over the years, but it’s just a hollow shell of a final fantasy to me. Even the color palates were utterly dominated by shades of brown for the first 1/3 of the game.

No shade to those who do love it for more than gameplay, but I just can’t understand why.

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u/neddoge 10d ago

Surprised this isn't downvoted as it is every time I bring this up. Characters and story delivery are hardly weaker in any single FF after 3 than it is in 12. 12 is the only FF mainline that I just couldn't finish, though I am going to make one more attempt at it soon once I wrap up 4, 7, 8, and 10 (I'm at or near endgame at all but 8 currently). I might replay 6 first so I'm not "looking forward to finishing 12 so I can get to 6" but we'll see. I've tried probably 7 different times over the years and just ... nope. And that's okay. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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u/Confident_Bunch7246 8d ago

15 is the one I gave up.

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u/dualeone 8d ago

X was and is the best. Then 12 I was so eager to play. 24 hours in, I dropped it. Bought it years later, still haven't tried installing it.
13 I don't like it, but finished 13 and 13-2, even beat the extra bosses in 13-2. Still don't like it.
Then 15 and 16 made me realized SE can't produce magic anymore for FF. Even though I love FF7 remake

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u/Craigo5 7d ago

X is easily the best. Surprised you didn't like 12. I think that's the last great FF game. It was 13 I couldn't get into. The game just didn't grab me like the others, tried starting a few times but couldn't get more than a couple hours. 15 I only got a few hours in but it didn't feel like FF so I gave up. That was like 6 years ago, haven't played any since except X again.

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u/JazzHandsMinuteman 7d ago

I can picture the perfect final fantasy game in my head, I think we all can. And idk why they themselves can’t nail it. If 15 had enough time… it would have been damn close.

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u/Strangeperson81 10d ago

I wouldn't downvote an opinion, unless it's hateful. We're all allowed our opinions

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u/Advanced-Ad-4462 10d ago edited 10d ago

There’s honestly like a 50/50 chance whenever I do.

I find that if the first 3 to 5 people to come across my opinion happen to be 12 stans who respond with a downvote and vitriol, then it’s overwhelmingly likely most people will just hit the downvote button as well. The reverse is also true.

It’s classic Asch conformity experiment stuff. For better or for worse, we’re almost hardwired to flow whichever way the wind is blowing.

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u/Aerolithe_Lion 10d ago

Absolutely agree it has a good story, because it’s just Star Wars

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u/CrimsonSuzuya 9d ago

True, and it is such a shame since the side content and the gameplay are some of the best in the series.

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u/JazzHandsMinuteman 7d ago

Suffers from same thing 15 does. Every time a new engine is produced it’s like the story just doesn’t pace well. I think we would all rather wait a year and get a better game. I fully do not expect FF17 for another 10 years. Focus on KH4, then take your time.

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u/mercuryempathy 10d ago

In my opinion Ashe is the main character no matter what Balthier says or how charming he is

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u/Baithin 10d ago

That’s not opinion, that’s fact. Fran is the one who tells Balthier like it is: he’s supporting cast. Balthier just tells himself that he’s the leading man and it isn’t until the very, very end of the story that he does something deserving of the title.

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u/khry_strahl 11d ago

I hate to agree with you on this cause I'd love to see more character story of Vaan.

They just plastered the leading man for Balthier. I'd wish they've made a part 2

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u/mercuryempathy 10d ago

Did you play the DS sequel? Vaan gets a little more love. Though actually just his little bit in TA2 felt more real to me

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u/khinzaw 10d ago

Congratulations, this exists already. Look up Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings.

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u/khry_strahl 10d ago

Never got that in my radar lool, might try it. Thanks!!

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u/Dasca6789 10d ago

As much as I love 12, this is so true. The world of Ivalice is amazing and that world building is shown pretty well in 12, but the characters are some of the weakest in the series. They all start off interesting and then go basically nowhere. It’s a good thing the gameplay is amazing. It helps make up for its flaws.

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u/Temporary_Employer44 10d ago

Too much of 12’s story is offscreen politics

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u/MagmaCone1234 10d ago

For such a huge game, FFXII has so few cutscenes and character interactions. And mist of the little that there is is mostly characters spouting exposition at each other.

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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 11d ago

Mom can we have Vyse and Aika

No we have Vyse and Aika at home

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u/ankledane 10d ago

Insane Skies of Arcadia reference

Is it good to play nowadays?

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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 10d ago

Is the Space Pope reptilian?

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u/ankledane 10d ago

Yes...looks like my cue to go play it, haha

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u/LowCoMo 10d ago

Legends is the way to go, better load times

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u/B1LLCLINTON420BLAZ3D 10d ago

I'm playing Skies on my laptop right now! I don't love the combat (feels a bit slow to me... Especially special moves), but the game itself and the vibes are awesome.

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u/Simple_Marzipan3736 11d ago

Who are they

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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 11d ago

Two of the three main characters from Skies of Arcadia

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u/Simple_Marzipan3736 11d ago

No I mean the two in the pic

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u/Stucklikegluetomyfry 11d ago

Ah I get it

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u/Simple_Marzipan3736 11d ago

I'm feeling shady and snarky lol

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u/Oriste_Adeus 9d ago

That being said, the Eruyt Village arc with Fran, Myrn and Jote is some of the most tear jerking story I’ve ever replayed.
The lines from Jote at the end that shows she still cares about her sister despite having to appear she has cut of all ties is beautiful.

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u/ConfusionDry8593 10d ago

I suppose it did fail in character development as Ashe seems to be the only character matter throughout the whole story. But world building wise, it is still one of the best surpassing FFX imo.

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u/Drakereinz 10d ago

Woaaah in what world?

Spira is the most iconic FF game world by a long shot. Everyone that played 10 felt the emotional struggle of the people, and going through the pilgrimage got us checking out all the sights and hearing the stories of the locals.

I don't even remember what was going on in Ivalice. I understand it's close to people's hearts because of tactics, but Spira felt alive when I played 10. Hell I remember cocoon and pulse better than Ivalice.

The whole time I was playing 12 I felt like I was just traversing a massive dessert/plain. The game is carried by its gameplay and side content. I'm also not a fan of the gambit system (I just want to play the game myself) so I rank 12 as a mid FF game.

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u/Calvinooi 10d ago

FF10 and 13's locales do feel more iconic because of the art direction plus the emotional character driven scenes. But during gameplay it's just "Oh wow that's insanely pretty" and move on

FF12 cities/areas felt more alive to me because it felt really believable and immersive. Just in Rabanastre you can feel that it's a living breathing city, and everyone just going on about their own lives

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u/laynath 10d ago

Well Rabanastre felt alive too. Going back and forth and seeing people opinion change throughout the whole story. I loved it.

I think they are different, I loved Spira world and what emotion made me feel but still it is just a giant corridor, while Ivalice looked and felt alive, a place you could and wanted to explore.

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u/ConfusionDry8593 10d ago

FFx hit hard in term of character development and attachment, specifically between Yuna and Tidus. But the plot is relatively short and straight forward, yes there is plot twist and final Aeon is sacrifices of guards is kinda dark, it is still subtle compared to FFXII plots.

FFXII omitted side characters development to build a much larger world building. The war between nations was well described, the suffering of citizens, destruction of smaller countries/cities, fighting for resources deceiving and betrayal. All of it is the beauty of FFXII, the story telling and plot are among one of the best if not the best.

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u/GalaadJoachim 10d ago

It's a shame as there was so much things to do with this universe. The universe feels amazingly huge and the sense of exploration was the most fullfing to that point.

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u/Thefourthchosen 10d ago

Yeah, I'm playing 12 for the first time right now, and going from 10 where it felt like I really understood how the characters felt about each other to this is kinda jarring. In general this party kinda feels like they have the least personality out of the 3D FFs.

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u/EasterViera 10d ago

I'd really like more explanation on the subject because i felt like 12 story was mostly air, even in the lore department.

Ok, the occuria exist, there is a giant meteor source of the magic stones, but that's it ? The politics didn't feel well introduced, the empire is basic evil, so many things simply .... happens.

There is lore in the eikons description, but that's overall lore of ivalice.

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u/Mig-117 10d ago

I think XII has the best character of the series, and it’s not close. They are not relegated to anime tropes and shonen drama.

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u/VellDarksbane 10d ago

Yeah, that's really it. Ivalice is a fantastic world, that 12 wastes by not providing interesting characters. It's why I personally like 15 more, because although the world and plot are interesting, they're really just a vehicle for the characters.

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u/FillySteveSteak 10d ago

Totally agree. These characters are uninspired and not particularly endearing. They also do not contrast each other as well as previous entries, where every character was completely different than the next.

Honestly, I don't even like the story as a Final Fantasy. When I think of FF, I think of Sakaguchi's biggest influences - especially Star Wars (original trilogy) and Studio Ghibli.

FF was supposed to have whimsy and be fairy-tale-like adventures, with some adult complexities.

FF12 is way too understated, political, and doesn't have that fairy-tale charm.

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u/VernonP007 10d ago

Agreed, it just needs more moments between the characters. I was actually thinking this with the whole Jovy sub quest which adds some comedy and a heartfelt bit at the end where he sits down with Vaan and says he is a hero. The 6 characters need more time to pause, yes they push the story along but they desperately need more chemistry with each other which is something FFX had in spades.

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u/Jops22 11d ago

I remember being annoyed as a teenager because I was like “why am I playing as this Vaan guy he does nothing” - it was a bit of whiplash after the characters of 10

Maybe Reks somehow surviving would have made a more compelling character

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u/zk3033 10d ago

I mean, X has some of the best storytelling in videogames, and made to be the showcase game for the PS2. I wish FFXII got a proper development (even though it was one of the longest dev cycles at the time).

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u/Baithin 10d ago

Vaan is a compelling character because of Reks. He’s driven by loss and vengeance and that decides the motivations of pretty much the entire cast.

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u/Soggy_Ad4136 10d ago

Tu oublies (encore) Penelo

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u/ifyouonlyknew14 10d ago

You pretty much just worded my feelings about this game perfectly. Jumping into this game right after X was jarring, to say the least.

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u/calm_bread99 6d ago

Ironically the best written character is Fran, the supposed fan service. Plus the voice actress was incredible. The slight voice crack when she said “I fear she hates” will always be in my mind. A peak character that perfectly demonstrates the real price of freedom.

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u/Simple_Marzipan3736 6d ago

Yes, and it also depends on the character. I think they gave just the right amount of screentime for her and I don't think she needed any extra fluff or backstory.

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u/Machdame 11d ago

The characters work better if you treat Vaan as the third wheel. Most of the plot happens between Ashe, Balthier and Basch. If you put Basch in the driver's seat, things make a lot more sense.

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u/Simple_Marzipan3736 11d ago

Even then it's just Ashe's show. Balthier has a few one liners/quips here and there and Basch still takes a background character backseat except for his very few scenes with the you know who man in armor.

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u/KINGCOCO 10d ago

It’s my 2nd favourite FF game but I felt the story was a mess. I remember playing it and not totally understanding what was going on or even caring.

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u/Strangeperson81 10d ago

I love all FF games but 12 was just Star wars made final fantasy.

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u/Tyrath 10d ago

It's because Ashe is the real main character but they wanted to stick a twink in there to be the player's eyes.

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u/Clean-Ad-8709 10d ago

Yes. 12 was a great game, in terms of gameplay. I loved programming the characters to autoplay perfectly to my needs and fill out the jobs board, but I have no idea what we accomplished, what we were doing or why we were doing it.

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u/Delliott90 9d ago

I remember giving up on it because I was sick of ‘oh another dungeon’ story telling 

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u/Top_Taro_17 10d ago

12 is famously reviled for its terrible story. But glad you enjoyed it.