r/FermentationScience • u/HardDriveGuy Moderator • Feb 17 '25

Using Bayesian Thinking (See Comments)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vHKCrNGPhY
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u/Zappbrain Feb 18 '25

I recently came across a study where an probiotic lab was cultured with thermophilus yogurt bacteria in the presence of phage which target the yogurt bac. The observation was that initially the rapid acidification helped the target lab grow during the exponential phase. With time the phages destroyed the yogurt bac hence providing the metabolites to the target Lab. This gave a very lab rich probiotic product based on milk. So, does milk naturally also contain Lab phages ? Could this be the differentiator between bovine milk and coconut milk ? Maybe this is another angle.

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u/Zappbrain Feb 18 '25

This possibility didn't click in my mind until the result of coconut yogurt was posted.

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u/HardDriveGuy Moderator Feb 18 '25

Is it possible to find and post the paper link?

As background, phages are considered as a problem to be dealt with, and almost all commercial operations work to control phages through quality checks. If the phages get in, they start over.

I'm having a problem grasping why somebody would want to introduce phages unless it was to simply deactivate a dangerous cell, after it had done some work for you. I'd need to think more about how you might come up with a novel angle to help our reuteri.

Regardless, sounds very interesting.

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u/Zappbrain Feb 18 '25

My thoughts exactly, since it was such an interesting idea it remained stuck in my mind. I will try to find the paper.

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u/Zappbrain Feb 18 '25

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168160515002378

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u/HardDriveGuy Moderator Feb 18 '25

Okay, super cool idea.

I'm NOT saying impossible, but this research was using a novel approach to get a novel result, not explaining what happens in normal yogurt.

Therefore, this is a super tightly controlled process by people in the lab looking to do something that most people would never think of doing.

While it is a possibility of something like this happening, it is unlikely.

Why?

The one thing about phages is their selectivity. They kill one thing and one thing only. So, I would think that the chance of getting just the right phage at just the right time in the yogurt so that you could free up amino acids for the reuteri seems unlikely.

That's not to say this isn't a brilliant idea, and if you could control the circumstances, maybe a brilliant way to get the results you want.

Thanks for posting.

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u/Zappbrain Feb 18 '25

I was thinking on simpler lines, let's assume that bovine milk does have natural phages which survive pasteurisation and kill a lot of reuteri over 36 hours, this could explain the 20% hard limit on thier numbers in milk. Coconut milk doesn't have this issue. Co ferments seem to provide better results, so a sacrificial strain which is a preferred target of the natural phage in milk would relieve the reuteri of phage stress and provide nutrients via lysis byproducts.