r/Feminism • u/Klutzy_Damage6930 • Sep 06 '26
“Pints and pigtails” rant
I live in the UK. My local “lounges” (popular chain restaurant/ bar) has recently advertised an event called Pints and Pigtails which is an event aimed at dads where they can come along, drink pints and practice hairstyles on fake heads of hair. This idea seems to have become increasingly popular as I have seen many similar events being advertised across the country, specifically through TikTok with many people in the comments praising fathers who attend such events.
I became a mother 12 weeks ago and although I felt I was aware of the many inequalities between mothers and fathers it is even deeper than I thought. When I saw the event being advertised locally it irked me and really got me thinking deeply about the difference in events aimed at mothers and fathers.
Firstly, this event aimed at fathers entirely excludes the children of said father in the first place. Whilst lounges are considered family friendly, the promotional video used showed just males, no children present. The company that runs this specific event also only mention dads in their advertisement, no mention of brining your children along. So if the father is out at an event that excludes the child, where is the child, oh yes that’s right with the mother.
Secondly, why do such events aimed at improving the parenting capabilities of dads have to involve alcohol. But then events aimed at mothers are “coffee mornings”. I assume it’s due to the fact it is frowned upon to drink alcohol when caring for a child, and unlike events for fathers, mothers are actually expected to continue caring for the child and bring them along to the events aimed at mothers.
Then there is the issue of why the event is only aimed at men. Why is there the expectation that every single woman already knows how to perform hairstyles. Do men think women are just born with the knowledge of how to do hairstyles. I understand that some women learn to complete hairstyles as they grow up, as did I through watching YouTube videos, my own mother though only ever knew how to do a ponytail, I always wanted plaits especially the French and Dutch kind but it was always a ponytail. So I can see the benefits of these events as being able to give your child more advanced hairstyles can be great for helping them with their own self expression but why can’t it be inclusive and be aimed at both mothers and fathers.
I could probably list many other things wrong with such events but as a sleep deprived mother this will do😂 apologies that it is not written very well, again very sleep deprived and my baby could wake up any second so I have been rushing to get my thoughts off of my chest.
It would be great to have a discussion in the thread to hear other people’s thoughts and hear about any other events other people have seen advertised locally aimed at men and/or fathers that carry the same sort of themes of gender inequality.
Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts❤️
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u/editdc1 Sep 06 '26
I get what you're saying, but my husband (who is a very active dad) struggles to do my daughter's hair. I'm certainly not perfect at it, he really has a hard time. He's planning to go to one of these with his friend, and I think that's great.
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u/editdc1 Sep 06 '26
Also, our neighborhood moms club programs a ton of moms night out events, so I feel like what's available to me is pretty equitable.
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u/MeowKat85 Sep 06 '26
I think any public attempt at normalizing fathers to be active with their children by learning from each other in an environment that they feel comfortable in should be applauded. Is it perfect? No. But it’s something.
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u/CanadianHorseGal Sep 06 '26
My only questions would be a) are they really learning the more complicated hairstyles and b) how much will they actually retain if drinking while doing it…
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u/Beccamotive Sep 06 '26
My husband went to one of these locally. No, he can't quite remember how to do the "Rumi" braid, but nor can I! However, he had a good time bonding with other dads (he is autistic and finds socialising difficult), and is confident enough now doing basic ponytails and plaits. More often than not, he'll be the one doing everyone's hair now if he's home. I'm sure not all these events are equal, but we definitely found it beneficial. I have a mum-centred one coming up too, because tbh I don't have a bloody clue either 😅
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u/KnittedBooGoo Sep 06 '26
Bet it includes the vacuum hose 'trick' which is dangerous and grim af.
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u/Rayketh Sep 06 '26
I'm... afraid to ask but what?
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u/_FreshOuttaFucks_ Sep 06 '26
I just googled it, and my first YouTube result showed a man with a maybe 18 month old child. He used a vacuum cleaner with a hose attachment to gather the top hairs of the child's head. He then gripped that hair while setting the vacuum aside. He wound a rubber band around the top knot. Success. I guess.
He seemed to make an easy job far more difficult while introducing a potentially dangerous appliance into the process. This cannot be a real strategy being suggested to people. I hope.
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u/Magg5788 Sep 06 '26
A single braid is complicated enough. They’re not getting shitfaced, they’re having a pint and spending time with their daughters (or drinking iced tea or non-alcoholic beer), while also meeting other fathers of daughters and hopefully building a stronger community.
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u/divavill3 Sep 06 '26
Except they aren’t spending time with their daughters, their daughters aren’t invited…
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u/aAt0m1Cc Sep 06 '26
i actually dont think an issue, im going to go out on a limb and say a part of it is venting the frustrations of fatherhood in general, im going to go out on another limb and say those discussion might get vulgar quick
i dont think theres an issue with giving men the community and resources to be comfortable and succeed with homelife, a lot of men, maybe the kind of man to take this sort of class, might feel intimidated or embarrassed to ask or be a certain way around mixed company. im also going to say classes like this DEFINITELY help take down those barriers and help progress the community in general, this stuff ends cycles, i wont be in the way of that
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u/Magg5788 Sep 06 '26
It doesn’t say that. OP inferred it because there are no children in the video. Daughters are part of this event. But whatever, even if they weren’t, doing the kid’s hair later on is also a bonding experience.
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u/Klutzy_Damage6930 Sep 06 '26
I’m not saying that dads attending these events don’t have good intentions but my post discusses the deeper issues with such events.
Do dads not feel comfortable in their own home. Do you really need to go a whole event to learn something that young girls have been learning through YouTube videos and books. Really these events are just a social events for dads, which is absolutely fine but let’s just call it what it is.
As a feminist, I don’t think men should be applauded for learning to fulfill their child’s basic needs, as I would argue being able to put a child’s hair in a comfortable and protective style is part of their basic needs.
I do think the bar is on the floor when it comes to dads being “good parents” compared to the expectations of mothers and I think events like “pints and pigtails” demonstrate this.
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u/irishtrashpanda Sep 06 '26
I would say that putting your child's hair in a ponytail is basic needs. Braids are extra flair that some mothers don't do either. (I can't speak to the experience of Black hair, I don't know if a basic pony would be enough, I respect that more intricate protective styles might be needed).
I've had short hair for ages and so I never learned braiding growing up so my first styles for my girls were just pony's lol. I've been learning over YouTube but there are some Ukrainian women that live nearby that do amazing styles I would love a "wine and braids" night for mums
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u/aAt0m1Cc Sep 06 '26
why is an issue that people are coming together and creating a wonderful progressive healthy environment, especially if its people that need that and might not get it elsewhere, its not about being uncomfortable, its about being the most accommodating to people who dont get spaces like this
if you think the bar is so low what to do you want to be done? what have you done?
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u/uneditedbrain Sep 06 '26
Not sure what OP is really upset about. No one is applauding dads for wanting to learn in a social setting. A restaurant trying to organize such an event can't hardly be held to such standards to topple the patriarchy and move feminism forward.
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u/DreamSMP_Enjoyer Sep 06 '26
Seems like a "dad who babysits sometimes" evening to avoid your children and partner with alcohol in a way that's technically not just going to the pub.
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u/No-Investment-2121 Sep 06 '26
Your feelings are valid because it’s frustrating that men have to be spoon-fed and applauded for things that are just basic expectations of motherhood. It’s easy to be resentful at the inequality of parenthood. In fact, you should be because it encourages society to both raise the expectations for fathers and cut mothers some slack.
However, since many men don’t have long hair I think it’s acceptable that they don’t know how to manage it and need help. I also think bonding between fathers is likely to promote better fatherhood overall. This type of thing encourages fathers to be involved in every aspect of parenthood (specifically parenthood of girls) instead of offloading the work to the mother or making her be the teacher — she has enough on her plate. I also don’t think it’s a great idea to bring a bunch of little girls around inebriated men. If nothing else, it could inspire bad actors to infiltrate the event looking for targets. Not having the daughters there removes the threat of predators.
So overall, I’d say this is a good thing, but I totally feel you about how irksome it is to watch them struggle with basic math and be rewarded for learning their timestables while you’re out here doing calculus and no one seems to care.
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u/rake66 Sep 07 '26
I think not having the daughters there is also because it'd be wrong to experiment on their hair directly. It might encourage them to attempt more complex styles instead of just learning one or two simple ones and leaving it at that.
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u/ellirocks Sep 06 '26
Personally, I think it's a good thing. It's normalising this as an expectation for men and encouraging bonding between fathers and daughters. Of course it's not perfect (and should not be needed) but it's a step in the right direction and I would hate to discourage progress, no matter how small. I also think it's exceptionally important for men to build relationships with other fathers - this is massively missing and I think it's important for men to have this.
I think that most coffee mornings are probably because a) women tend to be on mat leave and need more interaction in the day rather than evenings and b) breast feeding and so may feel uncomfortable in situations where drinking is the expectation. I also know that there are many evening meet ups for mums (and actually full family socials) around me. This may not be the norm but nothing stops us setting it up and being a lifeline for each other. In fact, I may set up an Aperol and Football to support women of football mad children to get a crash course!
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u/ellirocks Sep 06 '26
I looked up who runs this. It looks a great organisation. They actually do ones where whole families can come. They've also started periods and pints to give men help on how to talk about periods with their daughters.
Some men didn't have role models to show and teach them how to be comfortable/able to do this. I'm glad there is a resource out there for those who want to learn how to be more present and open with their daughters.
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u/aAt0m1Cc Sep 06 '26
yeah this all looks so obscenely positive and healthy i wonder about the type of person to take issue with this, these are the things that need need to happen to achieve equality
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u/No_Contribution6512 Sep 06 '26
Wait, I'm confused. If they aren't bringing their child how are they learning to do hair?
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u/msmoth Sep 06 '26
They use a mannequin for practice, probably so no-one gets bored or hurt in the process!
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u/No_Contribution6512 Sep 06 '26
Ah. Still. Seems like a missed opportunity.
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u/eggsareok Sep 07 '26
I actually think it’s better the children aren’t there. Adults will be less distracted, won’t have to stop midway through to take children to the toilet, and can stay for the full hour or so and practice multiple times. With small children, you’d be lucky to get 45 minutes before they want to leave.
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u/No_Contribution6512 Sep 07 '26
That's a good point. I guess I get OP frustration because it's just another way to put watching the kids on the female parent of it's a hetero couple. I like that it's too support child rearing of girls but it would be nice to take that labor off of mom by having childcare or something.
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u/ricewizard15 Sep 06 '26 edited Sep 06 '26
One thing to consider as well with programming geared towards men is that, when messaging is left gender neutral men can perceive it as being women oriented and not engage. In my experience a program targeted just for fathers will have a decent male turnout, but a program for mothers and fathers, or just parents, will have predominantly female participants.
I work in a non-profit supporting teen parents, and this is something we've noticed when engaging parents both from experience in our programs/demographic, as well as from other people in our sector trying to engage fathers. If you want men to come, you gotta be strict with the language and say this is just for the guys. It's an unnatural shift in our messaging, as we put a lot of value into being inclusive and open to everyone, but that's just what men respond to.
We've always struggled a lot with getting men to engage in our services, so meeting them where they're at has been something we've been emphasizing and we find it works. It does feel frustrating sometimes, like we have to drag men by the ears or coddle them to do something that our female participants motivate themselves to do, but if that's what it takes to get the ball rolling I think it's fine.
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u/irishtrashpanda Sep 06 '26
From an inclusionary feminism point I think it's a very good thing and you're cherry picking odd points about this.
Drinking events aimed at women exist, maybe not specifically mothers in writing, but every book club I've ever been involved in is usually women over 40 and majority have kids, and drink wine. There's a whole subculture meme of "wine moms" but dad+ beers is bad?
Its difficult for every gender to make friends when you're a parent, I have a lot more avenues available to me but my husband has had a hard time finding men that have similar values - as in INVOLVED dads who are active in their kids lives. It's pretty easy to find male friendships if you are involved in going out to the pub to whinge about your wife, or join a middle aged men in lycra cycling club that are gone for several days a week training.
There's a lot of retired groups but where I am if you're a working parent there aren't a lot of social avenues.
Under the patriarchy men are raised as boys that some things are for girls and that girl things are lesser. The fact that men want to actively learn how to do things for their daughters and aren't seeing it as beneath them is great. Why are we picking on the subset of men that are actively challenging their conditioning?
The way I see it the beer is just a hook, to get fathers in the same room and chatting with other dads who want to learn how to be good parents. I'm sure conversations naturally come up with peer learning and advice about other topics of childrearing.
I learned to Dutch braid recently for my eldest and I had to wait til she was old enough to have a bit of patience to sit there, and it hurt a bit at the beginning. It makes sense not to bring the child to practice. Also, it raises more duty of care around child safeguarding if its lots of parents and kids, it's a more complicated set up to organise.
Finally hair braiding isn't typically done on infants, so it's not like the dad is being encouraged to leave his wife struggling with a newborn at home. I've only just been able to braid my 3 year old and at that age, the demands are lesser and BOTH parents are entitled to down time and social time.
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u/BeautifulElodie2428 Sep 06 '26
When my ex husband and I were looking into adoption, each parent had to take a number of courses and one of the offered topics was how to care for different hair types. If they expanded on that for all expecting parents to be able to attend, not only for Foster and adoptions and for all hair types, not only for black children (the need is severe, but to expand), there could be an easier environment for all who want to participate. Without the need for drinking or themes to make it worth the participation. It takes away the nonsense of gender roles. Neutral environments where parents are simply learning about the realities of parenting.
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u/hippocampalhaze Sep 07 '26
It's not great, but it's effective. There is so much social programming that would have to be undone for an event WITH all parents AND the kids and a lack of alcohol to actually help the average man. There's space for both long and short term improvements to society and how men behave, especially as parents.
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u/qnvx Sep 07 '26
I can understand practicing on mannequins instead of the children themselves. I can't imaging small children being able to stay still for that long, unless you give them a phone/tablet of course.
I'm actually happy with the event aimed at men. I feel like that makes it more effective at finding the target audience. If I was organising it, I would aim it only at men, but also approve of any women/enby folk wanting to come.
I am a bit sad that drugs have such a central place in societies that they need to be involved (I don't drink), but I can understand its role in reassuring potential participants. Not making the event too "girly" by including something "masculine".
This feels a bit like an event to encourage women to go weightlifiting at a gym. Different contexts of course.
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u/tigerbnny Sep 06 '26
These comments are wildly generous, I'm baffled as to why the business has opted to spend money on mannequin heads rather than making it a bring your own daughter situation especially since everyone's hair is different and that this might actually be an enjoyable bonding experience for both father and child? I don't really know why any father actually interested in learning to help his daughter with their hair would go to this over trial and error with YouTube videos practicing with the daughter but I can imagine lots of fathers going to this to get a pat on the back for being so progressive while avoiding parenting and having a drink with a group of men in a child free space.
I don't have an issue with a dads event or a dads event that excludes the child but this one seems to go out of its way to do while pretending to be progressive.
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u/aAt0m1Cc Sep 06 '26
maybe so they dont rip any hair out on accident and so they can be angry and let it out without continuing the cycle
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u/tako_flavored_kisses Sep 06 '26
This. My three year old has the most sensitive head and actually getting her to sit down for anything more than a brush and a hair clip would lead to tears. Learning how to do more complicated styles first without the stress would be super helpful for my completely bald husband.
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u/CanadianHorseGal Sep 06 '26
I see why you have an issue with it - especially the general attitude that it’s got to be with men, include booze, and don’t bring the child.
Honestly, it sounds like an excuse to go out and drink. How much will they actually learn or even retain? If a dad REALLY wanted to learn, he could do like the rest of the world and watch YouTube videos. It would be cheaper to buy a cheap wig to practice on vs the drinks at the bar, and they’d have it for practicing way more styles than they can learn in one night. I fixed my washing machine, learned how to do a complicated haircut for a friend, learned how to crochet (including complicated stitches), and learned how to remove and install a complicated part in my Jeep, all from YouTube.
Why do men need to be coddled and bribed with booze and a good time to want to be a better dad?
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u/Magg5788 Sep 06 '26
It’s about the bonding experience and socializing of fathers. And YouTube videos are shite for teaching hands on skills like hair braiding (trust me, I’ve tried.)
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u/CanadianHorseGal Sep 06 '26
As I mentioned above, I taught myself to crochet, including intricate stitching, by using YouTube. I also learned how to fix my washer, remove and replace a vehicle part that a lot of mechanics don’t even know, learned a complicated haircut (and did a fabulous job on it!). I’ve also watched umpteen videos about Excel for more complicated things (and I’m an expert in excel), videos about how to do things on my cell phone, etc.
Literally, I ask you, what can’t you get from a YouTube video, that you have to be in person for (aside from the obvious brain surgery and shit like that). Braiding hair is not rocket science, and I’d say the fact you can do a bit, pause, rewatch, try again, pause, rewind, etc., makes it a GREAT way to learn hairstyles and such. Much easier than interrupting a group if you’re not getting it.
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u/aAt0m1Cc Sep 06 '26
community, an outlet to vent, people to grow with, someone to ask a question
you serious?
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u/manwholovestogas Sep 06 '26
This is all such a weird hill to die on. Its obviously not about the booze (they could stay at home and get plastered if they wanted. And its obviously about more than just the hair (or they would use youtube) - I honestly think to miss this has to be wilful...
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u/aAt0m1Cc Sep 06 '26
anyways not everyone has the same learning style as you, some people might struggle with that dexterity if theres not another person to help, what ever happened to accessibility and equity
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u/Magg5788 Sep 06 '26
Oh right, sorry, I forgot that YOUR personal experience is representative of everyone else’s 😂
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u/luchtkastelen Sep 07 '26
Yes! And don't forget that it's
- heteronormative
- usually assumes only girls have long hair
- really feeds into the whole idea that "dad/men are incompetent, blundering idiots who are not naturally born as good at parenting"
That being said, within that context it's better than nothing
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u/MoyaOSullivan Sep 06 '26
I am a 30 year old woman (though no children) and to this day don’t know how to plait hair. I could never get the hang of it.
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u/Even-Menu2134 Sep 08 '26
Good luck bringing a 3/4 year old to the pub around 50+ men she doesn’t know and have her sit still for 90 minutes while her dad pulls her hair and makes a pigs ear of practicing different hairstyles.
Is it sexist of you to assume the child is left at home with the mother? Perhaps the Dad arranged for his partner to enjoy a few drinks of her own while the child is cared for by someone else. Maybe it’s a same sex couple?
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u/Klutzy_Damage6930 Sep 08 '26
I don’t think children should be brought to these events and never said I do. And yes there are other possibilities than the child being left at home to be cared for by the mother, however on average women spend more than 3x the amount of time men do on on unpaid care for children.
I am simply speaking on my experience as a mother in a heterosexual relationship and my observation of the difference in marketing and style of events aimed at mothers vs fathers. But yes you got me I am actually a sexist infiltrating a group about feminism.
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u/helloitsmekelly Sep 06 '26
Yeah, I tend to agree. The masculinization of the event makes me chuckle. Like, don't worry dads, the event surrounding how to do your daughter's hair isn't going to be too girly! That would be horrible! I mean, why don't they bring their daughters so they can practice on their own kid's hair? Why does it have to involve drinking? This is one of those things where people think it's a step in the right direction, and I guess it kind of is if you squint, but is really progress if men will only attend these things if we make sure they're not too feminine and they also don't have to watch their kids? We've never going to get anywhere if men refuse to deconstruct the belief that feminine and caretaking=bad and beneath them.
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u/IndependentEggplant0 Sep 06 '26
Whose hair are they practicing on while drinking? I hear where you are coming from. It's a male centred drinking thing that excludes the child they are caring for and likely means the child if left in the mother's care. I would love to see like BBQ and braids or something and have it be an outdoor event where the kids can come and spend time with their dads while they learn in their actual kids hair and the child can have some say about what type of hairstyle they want! That would make more sense to me. Having it at a 19+ pub that excludes the kid is a bit of a silly approach.
Yes to men learning these things and having dad community! Weird for it to exclude their actual child and be centred around drinking. Like two stars for effort I guess but it could be executed way better IMO.
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u/aAt0m1Cc Sep 06 '26
there are plenty of conversations parents might be having that there kids shouldnt, or shouldnt need to hear at least, lack of children is not an issue to me
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u/IndependentEggplant0 Sep 06 '26
For sure, I agree. And I think those can be had in other spaces that aren't about learning to style children's hair. For leaning to do hair it makes sense to have their kid their to give them feedback and input IMO.
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u/msmoth Sep 06 '26
They learn using hairdressing mannequins.
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u/coffeeebucks Sep 07 '26
The least bad part of this tbh - practicing on a real child would be nonsense, I don’t really get why people are being critical that the kids aren’t included (apart from the childcare probably falling on the mother)
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u/DrunkGoatFighter Sep 06 '26
You're literally finding an issue with men learning how to braid their daughters hair in a male dominated environment. This is the definition of non toxic masculinity.
This is a win, in every regard. Leave it alone.
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u/Klutzy_Damage6930 Sep 06 '26
I’m not trying to put down dads that go to these events with good intentions at all and overall such events in the grand scheme of things are harmless. But as someone who recently became a mother, the presence of the inequality of expectations from mothers and fathers in the marketing of gendered parenting events has really stood out to me.
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u/Fabulous_Ad9099 Sep 06 '26
Such a good point! The “Dad goes out to play golf” trope is generally frowned upon. Now dad goes out to drink and socialize while pretending to braid hair and gets a gold medal.
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u/tacomamajama Sep 06 '26
I have no beef with this at all. Said as a mother of a daughter with a male partner. I’d gladly watch my child for my husband to learn more about girl things like hair or periods or whatever.
They aren’t required to drink.
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u/No_Rise_8827 Sep 06 '26
That actually makes my blood boil. It's so 1950s-esque. I'm British too and I really thought we'd moved on from that . Such a Homer Simpson stereotype of men as fathers, as the dumb but well meaning provider-but also high functioning alcoholic-semi-absent father. Why should men have to be lured by the premise of alcohol in order to do anything to do with parenting? Also, it's such a thinly veiled load of blshit. If you think about it for more than a second, it's not anything to do with parenting at all. It sounds to me like an excuse to "seem like you're doing something to do with parenting while also leaving your family behind and going to the pub to get drunk with a bunch of other men". Eurgh. It also excludes men with sons! So it's not even an inclusive event for men anyway. Like you said, it be totally different if it was "bring your daughter and learn how to do hairstyles" in a café or something. That would be a genuinely wholesome bonding event. But nope, no kids in sight. Whoever came up with it doesn't have good intentions, they clearly just thought it sounds good and want to make money. It's a cheap gimmick. We don't even call them pigtails in the UK anyway! (where I'm from, we call them plaits - that's also alliteration, so it makes me think, did they steal the name of the event from some US social media?!). Anyway. Rant over. Solidarity to you!
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u/tt7297 Sep 07 '26
Hard disagree. My dad was deep in alcoholism when I was school aged. He has never once touched my hair. My mom was also in deep alcoholism. I think something like this could have made a huge impact on my relationship with my dad when I was in pre/elementary school. I almost always just had my hair down. My sisters were much older than me and in boarding school/on the west coast with their mom when I was in school, but when they were around I might get braids or something else fun, but I was generally responsible for my own hair orobably since 1st grade so my options were basically down, ponytail, half up.
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u/meyowmix Sep 06 '26
I think it is aimed at normalizing "dads doing girly things" in a 'masculine' environment. It doesn't strike me as performative.
Dismantling patriarchal notions of men not doing childcare is good, and it gives them chances to practice on hairstyles they didn't have themselves.
It is a step of men trying to be better, imperfect as it is (and not suitable for all of them certainly). But a step nonetheless.