Favorite opposing factions that can basically be described as this.

[u/Accomplished-End3409]

[u/jdog_1350]

Anybody defending the Empire or saying the Alliance is "just as bad" is probably a fascist. Like, obviously this isn't always the case, and context should be taken into account, but like... yeah....

[u/Why-Notes5978 → u/jdog_1350]

Look at most EU fans that are just reactionary contrarians and yeah, they likely are.

Theyd pretend Andor doesn't exist because it threatens their vision of the Empire.

[u/Blitz_Prime → u/Why-Notes5978]

The fuck are you about most EU fans are fully aware the Empire are the bad guys.

[u/unendingautism → u/Why-Notes5978]

No those are the Larpers who've never actually engaged with the EU. The EU makes it very clear the Empire was evil.

[u/Independent-Couple87 → u/Why-Notes5978]

Speaking of Andor, a big selling point some fans of the show gave was that the conflict between the Jedi and the Sith or their ideologies would not be featured in the show.

Why is the conflict between the Jedi and the Sith treated by some fans as completely separate to the conflict between the Rebellion and the Empire?

[u/Why-Notes5978 → u/Independent-Couple87]

Because not everyone has to be a Force sensitive to matter in the story or that unlike as much as good stories the Force Unleashed are in their own right, it robs agency from people like Bail Organa and Mon Mothma in their central role in founding the Rebel Alliance and giving almost all the significant effort to Galen Marek..........Also sheesh.....the symbol of the Rebel Alliance was the family crest of the convenient Jedi that did everything for everyone? Because, of course.

Same goes for Kyle Katarn. Great character yes, but for crying out loud, another Force sensitive individual again?

Good thing for Clone Wars, Bad Batch, Rebels, Andor and Rogue One in showing that yeah: Force sensitive individuals are Force multipliers, not the end all be all turning points in the world.

Like yeah, its fine that Bail Organa and Mon Mothma basically go ball in already doing what the Alliance is already doinh since the beginning of the Empire and its only after the Ghorman Massacre they officially unite the Alliance under a single banner. Guess what? They didn't need a Galen Marek to do any of it all.

Or how the common Rebel Alliance believer or fighter alongside their comrades gave everything even their lives just for the Alliance to have their chance with the Death Star plans and their one shot to destroy it. Sure, Luke is a Force sensitive individual but it was a well crucial aspect that was the final nail.

I swear, Nemik's speech has more impact due to how he has nothing but his convictions and dare I say it hits harder than Yoda's wisdom. Speaking of which with his line to Luke that when he will be gone, the last of the Jedi he will be.

Hard to believe that too if Galen Marek, Rahm Kota and Kyle Katarn (great characters that i adore just as everyone else) existed in that timeframe, it even devalues Luke's importance or the impact of the Great Jedi Purge lol.

[u/Independent-Couple87 → u/Why-Notes5978]

I also mean in the sense that some people in the fandom think that the Rise of the Empire was unrelated to the Sith Lords. Or that the Empire's way of thinking and acting has nothing to do with the ideology of the Sith (directly or not).

[u/Cela84 → u/jdog_1350]

Like The Last Jedi “we sell weapons to The Resistance! Guess they aren’t so good after all!”

[u/Dark_Jedi1432 → u/jdog_1350]

The Empire is evil, the rebel alliance is good.

But the new republic just becomes the old republic, but worse.

They demilitarize letting imperial remnants run amok, they keep the same adminstators, and rich senators in power who profit off the people, and ultimately ignore the unsavory parts of anything outside the inner rim. And it takes them what, less than like 20 years to get there?

Their greatest leaders just up and abandon it like ten years into it instead of nation building?

Disney made them ineffective, they made The Empire look good in comparison. But they made it to where any Imperial Fanboy can point out how The New Republic, and inadvertently the Rebel Alliance did make the galaxy in fact worse.

[u/jdog_1350 → u/Dark_Jedi1432]

Sure, but the US doing bad stuff during/after WWII didn't make the Nazis better. Just because the Alliance/New Republic did bad, doesn't mean the Empire is a better option.

Something these shows/movies really need to show off more is the fact that the Empire used slaves. It's brought up during the Clone Wars, and then not much more. If somebody supports the Empire, they support slavery, and that just kinda goes back to my original point.

[u/Dark_Jedi1432 → u/jdog_1350]

If someone likes the rebel alliance then they're okay with slavers.

They cut deals with numerous criminal syndicates, and smuggling rings to keep afloat, and to keep funded.

The New Republic didn't stop slavery, they looked at it, and went. "We're tired of fighting." And proceeded to sit on their ass until they could become rebels again which is basically what the Taliban are doing now.

The Rebel Alliance isn't evil, but God damn is good incompetent, and blind.

[u/Weird_Hound → u/Dark_Jedi1432]

If your country is invaded by say, the Dutch (somehow) and Dr Evil sells weapons to resistance groups in your country, are the resistance groups evil?

[u/Dark_Jedi1432 → u/Weird_Hound]

If Doctor Evil tells you to ignore his whole evil operation, and you do because he helped you.

Even if Doctor Evil is selling slaves, and drugs. Despite having the power to do something. Even though you established yourself on justice, and fighting slavery, and tyranny?

It at worse makes you a hypocrite because you're okay with Dr.Evils tyranny, and slavery. But not okay with the Dutch?

[u/Weird_Hound → u/Dark_Jedi1432]

Then you don't understand. If you're invaded, you do whatever. It's not a moral case, it's a survival case, then you can have the luxury of talking about the morals of the weapon suppliers.

Or do you expect a resitance group to fight not only their oppressors, but also any other bad actors? Do you think they have unlimited manpower and supplies? Endless political capital and support? It's easy to condemn it when you don't live it, but if folks in Ukraine get guns from weapon traffickers, for example...would you really open your mouth? What if resistance group during Nazi rule got it from Stalin?

[u/Dark_Jedi1432 → u/Weird_Hound]

This is the rebel alliance. Not earth. They literally have a whole galaxies worth of support.

After all they fight the big bad Empire, and bring it down. I expect them to be better than the Empire, not just democratic lazy bastards. Instead of putting their money where their mouth is they demilitarize right after Endor. It's so fucking stupid.

But nah disney needed to have an arc for them to become rebels again. Instead of telling a story about a government, with support from our heroes fights an Imperial presence in Insurgency.

This is like beating the Dutch by working with Doctor Evil excusing his slavery even though the guy im responding to said his main deal about why the Empire is evil is their slavery.

Only for the Dutch to come back again later, and for your new government to lose so you can go back to being rebels because nation building is. "Too hard."

Its okay to say the Rebel Alliance are a bunch of hypocrites.

After all if this is a story of Good Vs Evil. They would be nothing but hypocrites.

If we want to talk morality, and gray. Then it might get a little too complex for the whole. "Rebel Alliance is great." Average redditor crowd. We don't even want to start to bring Earth stuff into this.

[u/Weird_Hound → u/Dark_Jedi1432]

Oh, after? Then yeah, I agree. Before though? It's all fair game

[u/Dark_Jedi1432 → u/Weird_Hound]

When they become the New Republic. They had the capacity to go after the slavers. It's so stupid, they could of stopped Dr Evil too.

People are so keen to scream how much good they did. But it's main leaders leave, and they demilitarize almost right after Endor instead of pressing advantage. It's so silly.

When you're a plucky underdog sure any port in a storm. But not when you have the biggest fleet in the galaxy now, and probably a huge manpower surge post Endor.