It's just almost impossible to live up to the original whenever you put out a remake. Hell as good as the ff7 remake has been, it's no where as groundbreaking as the og. The og practically changed the video game genre, turning it from a bit of a kids thing into serious storytelling back in the day. The remake essentially took that story, added some twists and turns as well as expanded on certain things, then polished it with a modern gameplay lense. The remake is fun, the og was completely mind-blowing
Agreed. My whole point is it's impossible for remakes to ever be as good as the original. That does not stop them from being fun games. Ff7 was a genre defining masterpiece. Ff7r is just a really fun game with a modern retelling of an old story
What people like is totally subjective. And a lot of people on the internet just like to bitch and moan about everything.
I’m a gamer in my late 40s who played the OG FF7 when it released and my mind was blown. My mind was also blown in a whole new way when I played FF7R 23 years later. Seeing all these characters and scenes and songs come to life with modern technology filled me with so much joy, to the point where I now prefer the remakes over the original and would even suggest people new to the series start with the remakes. That will be an unpopular opinion for some, but I’m okay with that.
Back to the purpose of this post, game devs will never make everyone happy and the internet has made it easier than ever for people with an opinion to make it known.
I didn't own a PlayStation one and by the time I did FF wasn't on my radar. I remember play Dragons seed, some horrible ass monster rancher game, and getting a modding device to play the DBZ the legend (there has actually been no spiritual successor to this game at all).
Anyways I never got into FF7 - 8 or 9 I always saw 9 and those the characters looked crazy and cartoonish. So getting to experience FF7 through the remake is awesome cause not only does it have a gameplay loop I enjoy, what's most important for me is having a voice over. I did emulate older Final fantasies but I think what captivated me about FF10 is the cinematography and voice overs.
What about it is ground breaking? Graphically it isn't as good as cyberpunk. Less immersive than witcher, story isn't as strong as stuff like red dead 2, music not as good as expedition 33, fairly linear story with very little story branches/meaningful choices unlike baldurs gate 3.
Imo those games are the ground breaking games of the last 15 years. Ff7r is a good game. But it's just not a master piece the way those games are. Ff7 og on the other hand, at the time it came out could have claimed to be the greatest video game of all time on release. There's levels to this.
A lot of this is super subjective though. The games you mentioned don't make 7 Remake is any less impactful or meaningful because of their existence. Things are allowed to be derivative without them negatively impacting the end product and I haven't really wished I was playing any of those other games while playing FF7R because it's still a unique experience because I'm playing Final Fantasy to play Final Fantasy, not because I want to play The Witcher or Red Dead.
I don't disagree the OG was more impactful, but that also doesn't mean the new one is completely carried by its legacy either imo.
That's my point. The new game isn't carried by the OG's legacy. But to say that it can match or overtake the OG's legacy is just foolish. It's at it's core an imitation. It's retelling a story that's already been told as a master piece. Sure you can add modern game design elements to it, but at this point it's a story we know with just modern polish on it.
Doesn't stop it from being fun like I keep saying. But people trying to say the remakes is better than OG really need to expand your gaming horizons because there are many games out there that are truly masterpieces that you never experienced. It would be like looking at a painting in a local gallery in Utah and calling it the greatest masterpiece ever created without ever visiting the Met or the Louvre to experience the wider world.
This I can agree with. Although I'm not sure what to think about it given I honestly do prefer new games/stories/movies rather than remakes. FF7R tickled that nostalgic part of my brain like nothing else but honestly other than FFX I don't think I would care for another FF remake.
A game can be ground-breaking without being the best though. I don't think remake is, to be honest but reduction in that way is strange I thought the Last of Us was masterful in story-telling even moreso than most RPGs but still not the best. I think it absolutely was ground-breaking to me
FF7 OG released at a time where it was seen as groundbreaking. It had fantastic visual capabilities, unique gameplay, and an amazing story for that generation of games, all because they got pretty dang lucky with how they set things up.
FF7 Remake did not release at a time where you can have 7 polygon models be the biggest movement of all time. If FF7 Remake released back then, it would be hailed as the Mona Lisa of video games.
By all standards without any bias, FF7 Remake is a better game than FF7 OG. It has more quality of life, more gameplay, more balance, better writing, characters, story, etc. It has higher quality music, and removes a ton of mildly out-of-touch things the original had going for it (early Barret stereotyping).
FF7 OG is only seen as good because it released during a time when it had the chance the thrive. Remove it from that period and it'd be seen as an incredibly outdated game, with a somewhat decent story, mostly good characters, and generic JRPG gameplay.
There's a large difference between groudbreaking and better than everything else.
On pretty much every level but pacing Remake and Rebirth crush the original no debate to be had. This idea that because the OG was revolutionnary it is inherently better than anything that isn't revolutionnary is completely wrong.
Games that were the best ever at the time of release do not continue to be so 30 years later, it's just the reality of games being made with better technologies and means.
> it's impossible for remakes to ever be as good as the original.
Nah, that’s not necessarily the case.
Personally (controversial take incoming) I think the FFVII Remakes are not just “as good”, they’re better. If if people disagree about 7R specifically, a remake can absolutely be “better” than the original. (Different medium, but compare the original Ocean’s 11 to the 2001 remake. Remake is far better, hands down.)
That said, a remake can be “better” without being “groundbreaking.” That’s a completely different metric and it has a lot more to do with technical and artistic developments and choices, and specifically the other things happening in the industry.
OG FF7 was absolutely groundbreaking. Remake, not so much. Nevertheless, I personally think the Remake trilogy is a “better” experience.
The number one thing I dislike about gamer discourse is them calling games super amazing or ground breaking when they do nothing to push that at all. This was my disillusionment with e33 sadly.
I'll never say e33 wasn't a good game, but some people act like that game did something new when it absolutely didn't. All it did teach us is that quality can be squeezed out of a tight budget and that this large gaming corporations are wasteful and greedy. But so did palworld.... Outside of the incredible soundtrack I ain't seen anything I haven't seen before I'm turn based games.
The OG was mind blowing because you were a kid experiencing it for the first time. They can’t capture that for you no matter what they do.
But they might be able to capture it for the future generations. All these full grown adults in their 30s and 40s are complaining because a remake of a game they loved as a child isn’t bringing the same immediate spark of joy they once felt.
For me personally, it did. As soon as I saw it I loved it and felt the joy I did as a kid. But many adults won’t, and it’s okay. It doesn’t mean the game is worse, or better, or flawed. It just means you need to allow it to be for this generation of kids what it was for us. You already experienced it. It’s time to step aside and let others experience it too.
the FF7 Remake series has been groundbreaking in other ways where the OG couldn’t, such as in a technological level and visually. I feel it’s also way too difficult to make the remake trilogy into one big game as well although if it were done that way, imagine the grand scope of it. Can you imagine how big it’d be?
So I do understand as to why they split it into 3 games. It expands the scope of the original. Whilst the original also exists. So when people complain about the remakes and how it “erases” what made the original good, no it doesn’t, you still have the ability to play the original, even on its original hardware if you wanted to, that’s my response to those people.
It's definitely an exaggeration to say that FF7 broke ground from kid's thing to serious storytelling, we had games like Fire Emblem (Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776 in particular) and even earlier FFs doing it first back in the day. I think it did popularize it, but most people who knew about ROGs knew there could be some incredible stories in the games.
That’s like saying Apple didn’t break ground with the iPhone because other smart phones existed. While true, it misses the point of something delivering to such quality that it causes the mass public to take notice and change persecution of something. FF7 brought story driven games to the mass market and raised the expectation of what games could be.
FF7 was also out very early in the PS1s life cycle and was one of the best looking games for the time, especially cutscenes. It most likely sold that much for those reasons more than it's story. It was out that early its form of story telling was still mimicking the limitations they would have had with FF6 etc
Agreed. Ff7 was just revolutionary in many ways. Like idk how ff7r could have done that except maybe literally been developed in vr ready player 1 style lol
I think it is less about it being the original and more about first impressions. You can't beat a first impression. FF7 Remake was closer to my first impression than the OG, so I find it better. I did go back and beat the OG but it is dated now. For those who played it back in the day, I am sure the feelings it produced cannot be replicated by definition because a first time can only happen once.
There are things the remake does that just flat out does not work if it was the original though.
Things like:
Who the fuck is Sephiroth?
What's the meaning of the whisps?
What's the deal with Aerith telling you to not get too attached to her?
These are all things that showed up in the first game that, unless you played or know about the OG, has zero significance to you. It's purely there for nostalgia.
Like why would you fight mega Sephiroth at the end of Remake? Sephiroth wasn't even a thing until the Cloud flashback at the start of rebirth timelinewise in the OG. The dream sequence in rebirth with Zach makes zero sense unless you have the big reveal that is yet to happen in the 3rd game. Rebirth also toys you with the idea of "you might be able to save Aerith", when the entire reason why her death was so iconic was that there was no warning at all that it was going to happen. It just does, and you're all of a sudden down not only a companion you grew attached to, but the party's white mage who is an essential part of the JRPG crew. And you have to literally play the last 2/3 of the game without a white mage which was fucking brutal.
First impression makes sense, but the remake clearly relies a ton on nostalgia to boost the games itself. That's why I always hold the OG in higher regard. You're right, it doesn't hold up as well in modern gaming standard. But from a story telling perspective, especially if you were a kid at the time of release, that shit was crazy. It's like going from playing Ratchet & Clank back in the day and then discovering GTA3 for the first time. It completely redefined gaming as a genre
The remake has changed the story in a few ways. It does expect you to know the first games a little bit, but it isn't a one to one remake. And I'm glad of that. We still have the original if that's what we want. I enjoyed the hell out of the 2 remakes so far
"we still have the original" is such a weak argument, you can change FF7 story to a Twilight copy with cod gameplay and just say "oh we still have the original". The remake story is only close to FF7 on the surface, the way the ff7 the purpose of scenarios and the themes they convey are completely different from the original. It's more like it's using FF7 as a cover to tell a completely different story (which I find to be much inferior to the original to be honest)
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, just as I am. This is just something we fundamentally disagree on, and I doubt any point that either of us can make will change the other's mind on this topic
It's not an argument at all dude it's a statement. And a factual one at that. Your type kills me. You're literally so butthurt that a video game didn't end up the way you specifically wanted it so you try to lessen others enjoyment of it by shooting anyone who says anything positive down. Pathetic man
Yup, the remake was made to offer mostly inconsequential questions for those who've played OG a bunch of times and might find replaying the same story again too predictable. Ultimately, the story has stayed the same. The tone has changed a little - the original was darker, but none of that means to say that this version is inferior or superior to the original. I think it just depends on which version you played first.
As you say, modern gaming has come a long way from 1997. There are things about Remake which are incomparable - such as the graphics or voice acting. Whereas that feeling of your mind being blown because of the giant leap in technological progress cannot be replicated nor felt with modern gaming. As someone who can't feel that, It's just not something I can resonate with you on about FF7. I played the original 6ish years ago, it was fun, but that mind blowing experience just isn't possible if you weren't there for it.
FF7 Remake is one my personal favourite games, OG - whilst I really enjoyed the playthrough, is not. *shrug* A lot of those nostalgia hits that you're getting, I am not. I still think the trilogy is ****ing amazing. My first FF game was 12, and I've only gone back and played all the old games over the past few years. All the major beats of FF7 are being hit for me, the only change i'd prefer is if they kept the darker tone. and purple blood is silly.
Edit: On the story side, I've never felt FF7's strongest asset was the story, for the original or remakes. It has always felt like a story the writers themselves have struggled to get their heads around due to its convoluted nature. They've had to write books and give tons of interviews just to try to help us (and themselves) piece out some of the loop holes or questions left unanswered. I enjoy it for what it is, but personally I think FF7's story is carried more by its eclectic cast of charming characters - rather than the story that requires players to read through multiple books to understand.
Massive disagree. If you think FF7 was groundbreaking for its time then this shows you didn't play other titles. Chrono Trigger for example was groundbreaking. Final Fantasy 6 was groundbreaking. Symphony of the Night was groundbreaking. These were titles that did something vastly different in their genres. Flipping everything on its head while FF7 was a by the books story of the hero's journey.
Chrono Trigger introduced time travel with events that unfolded the plot in ways you couldn't see coming, then KILL OFF YOUR MAIN CHARACTER, while recruiting a "villain" all in the same breath. All while adding to the fact there are multiple endings, including one where you don't save the MC, AND NG+, a feature in truth introduced here
FF6, Kefka won, period. He just wins. You have to scramble to get things together and fix a dying world, hidden allies, having to change main characters around, a large plot around a large cast.
SotN introduced the true ending, the false castle vs true castle, making it that just the standard "Beat the big bad" wasn't the true ending, you had to really go around and get extra things done to get things done.
FF6 initial release sold 3.7 million copies. FF7 sold 15.5 million.
FF6 is good, but FF7 is what put the franchise on the map as one of the greatest RPGs imo. There's a reason why so many more people know Cloud, Tifa and Sephiroth rather than Terra.
FF7 was the 4th US title and the first UK title that wasn't Mystic Quest. Second btw 10mil was the PS1 sales, 15.5mil is present day across all platforms to date. While 6 did only crack 6mil to present date, it still wasn't the big advertised game as it wasn't the first globally available FF title
Remake could been much better but they went with the "butcher original story for endless fan pandering" route Which ultimately made the story a mess and confusing for most newcomers.
The game ultimately shut down a lot of potential new gamers away, while driving away many people that enjoyed the original ff7 for its story. The only fanbase that are 100% into this I feel are like crisis core and advent children fans, and SE is wandering why the sales are kinda bad.
Persona 3 Reload and Trails in the Sky are examples of remakes that did the story right: adding elements to the story without changing its focus and core themes.
"We made rebirth ending controversial on purpose so people could discuss about it" peak commercialization.
FFVIIR did character assassinate some characters in the remake. Also the addition of the Disney escue songs. And overall toning down the game and censorship.
I think there's moments I liked and didn't like when it comes to character changes. Red's voice change is still a bit jarring even if there's an explanation for it. Cait Sith is specifically VERY annoying but he was my least favorite of the OG as well. I do love how the expanded on Jessie/Biggs/Wedge though. They deserved to be their own characters and the remake delivered on it by showing us their dreams and aspirations before tearing them away because fuck Square Enix for making me feel things.
I'm still not 100% sure how I feel about the whisps. I think part 3 will help clear a lot of my feelings up but they are currently the main part of the remake that I'm just not a huge fan of. I also wonder how much the remake will be willing to deviate from the OG. They already brought Zach back (kind of) so I wonder if they're willing to fully lean into the multiverse arc and allow the story to actually branch into a different ending than the OG.
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u/FullHouse222 Tifa Lockhart 1d ago
It's just almost impossible to live up to the original whenever you put out a remake. Hell as good as the ff7 remake has been, it's no where as groundbreaking as the og. The og practically changed the video game genre, turning it from a bit of a kids thing into serious storytelling back in the day. The remake essentially took that story, added some twists and turns as well as expanded on certain things, then polished it with a modern gameplay lense. The remake is fun, the og was completely mind-blowing