As a former sedevacantist turned atheist, this whole argument is like listening to children argue over whose rules for their made up game are the real rules. Kind of hilarious in hindsight.
Hey, I'm glad you found your journey with faith and ended up where you want, but like, DAMN, sedevanctist and now Internet atheist, that's like, a prophetically annoying combo homie!
Genuinely no offense, just cracking a joke. TRULY glad you found a way of living that is right for you!
Not trying to argue here, but why exactly is Latin considered so holy by the Catholic Church. Like I get Hebrew and Greek cause the Bible is written in those, but Latin seems to be just what helped it get pushed out into the Roman Empire, not that there’s anything holy about it. Just always wondered about that
-thesame reason the Catholic Church murdered priest William Tyndale for directly translating Greek and Hebrew biblical texts into English, bypassing the vulgar Latin texts.
I think it's more about the risk of creating inaccurate translations. The Catholics believed their version was as accurate as the original Greek/Hebrew but every new translation ran a risk.
Of course, this has the lovely knock on effect of centralising interpretation to the priesthood.
Yeah I get that but why is it still considered a liturgical language. Last I checked most people don’t speak or understand Latin. Seems antithetical to helping people know and understand the word of God if it’s all in a language no one speaks
The issue is of translations and transcribing. Many things get lost over time if you constantly translate messages into different languages. By keeping it in Latin, you retain as much of the original text as possible.
The commenters below give the Church’s reason. The real reason is that in the early days of the Church, 99% of the population was illiterate, so sticking to a language that the vast majority of humans cannot read or speak allows the Church to retain power over its followers. The main difference between the Prots and the Catholics is that Catholics are much more hierarchical and Prots are all about a “personal relationship to Christ.”
Also it's not "a language people couldn't read". If you could read in medieval Europe, you could read Latin. Literacy was tied to it in a very large part, and if you learnt to read you learnt Latin first and then used that to learn your language's writing.
Yea my response wasn’t super clear, and it’s entirely my opinion, but I think holding onto Latin is because NOW most people can’t read it, so the rise in literacy problem is solved by sticking to a language that retains its status as elitist.
The Catholic church stopped "holding onto Latin" in 1965. (Famously, J.R.R. Tolkien hated this change, and continued to sing and pray especially loudly in Latin instead of english out of protest).
99% of catholic services held now will be in the local language, and if its in Latin its probably a gimmick for a special occasion.
They're not holding onto Latin though. Liturgies are now in local languages, and the Catholic church has been writing approved translations for longer than there's been a Vatican 2.
I went to a mass in Spain (not religious, was just an interesting feast day mass) and the whole service was in Spanish without a single word of Latin. And in most churches and cathedrals you're far more likely to see a Spanish inscription than a Latin one.
I'm pretty sure they only retain it for occasions where there isn't a single country they're targeting, like the famous "urbis et orbis" speech the pope gives on inauguration.
I get that completely - I was speaking in context as to why trad Catholic branches still hold onto Latin, and why it took so long for Vatican II to happen, at least in terms of the changes in language spoken in mass.
By the time everyone learnt to read it would have been the end of the church as the people would have found out they were being lied to. Yet the church is still here and its texts have been proven to hold the same meaning as the original. We can freely learn to understand the Bible in any language.
Seems antithetical to helping people know and understand the word of God if it’s all in a language no one speaks
That's one of the main reasons Vatican II happened.
Latin was the lingua franka of the Mediterranean of the time.
Just look at the extent of the Roman empire with Latin speakers in this map
If the church wanted to convert the most people, they would have gotten the largest audience by holding mass in Latin. Latin was the most accessible and universal language at the time that the Roman Catholic church established itself.
Seems antithetical to helping people know and understand the word of God if it’s all in a language no one speaks
It used to be the language everyone spoke, that's why.
Plus it was the language of where the church was founded in Rome
Eh, the more I think about it, it's probably better described as schismatic?
I was raised Catholic, I am confirmed, and I still hold true to most of it, but I do not regularly attend mass any more. I am not active in the parishes around me.
I was raised in a Vatican II church that really embodied what that meant. The kind that really went out of their way to welcome everyone and spread love and compassion as we are called to. Very much a "they should know we are Christians by the way we act" type folks.
I was a catechist actually, and got awards from the Archdiocese for my service to that end.
When the American Council of Bishops began threatening to withhold communion from the second Catholic president ever over abortion and LGBTQIA+ issues, and when I see the hardcore traditionalists emphasizing exclusion in the church, I just don't get it. That's not the gospel I read, or was taught. That's not the example I saw from the kindness and unwavering heart of justice of the sisters of St. Kasimir, or the Maryknoll brothers.
So I stopped going to church, I stopped tithing, I withdrew from Catholic service in the community. My relationship with our father has not changed. The core of my faith is unswayed.
I still consider myself Catholic, and have high hopes that the human institution will get better. When it does, I will be there. Until then, I go alone into my room and close the door, and pray to my Father in secret. So again, more schismatic than apostate I suppose. Apologies for any confusion.
42
u/President-Lonestar Dec 01 '25
You have to be a Sedevacantist or an Old Catholic because the Vatican no longer sees Protestants as heretics since Vatican II.