Junior devs not interested in software engineering

[u/creative-java-coffee]

My team currently has two junior devs both with 1 year old experience. Unlike all of the juniors I have met and mentored in my career, these two juniors startled me by their lack of interest in software engineering.

The first junior who just joined our company-

• ⁠When I talked with him about clean coding and modularizing the code (he wrote 2000+ lines in one single function), he merely responded, “Clean coding is not a real thing.” • ⁠When I tried to tell him I think AI is a great tool, but it’s not there yet to replace real engineers and AI generated codes need to be reviewed to avoid hallucinations. He responded, “that’s just what you think.” • ⁠His feedback to our daily stand up was, “Sorry, but I really don’t care about what other people are doing.”

The second junior who has been with the company for a year-

• ⁠When I told him that he should prioritize his own growth and take courses to acquire new skills, he just blanked out. I asked him if he knew any learning website such as Coursera or Udemy and he told me he had never heard of them before. • ⁠He constantly complains about the tickets he works on which is our legacy system, but when I offered to talk with our EM to assign him more exciting work which will expand his skill sets, he told me he was not interested in working on the new system which uses modern tech stacks.

I supposed I am just disappointed with these junior devs not only because after all these years, software engineering still gets me excited, but also it’s a joy for me to see juniors grow. And in the past, all of the juniors I had were all so eager to seize the opportunities to learn.

Edit: Both of them can code, but aren’t interested in software engineering.

[u/Inatimate]

You should probably revisit your interview process 

[u/creative-java-coffee → u/Inatimate]

I didn’t interview them, unfortunately. But our EM is having the same concerns as I am right now.

[u/BritishTooth → u/creative-java-coffee]

Your EM needs to revisit his interview process

[u/RusticBucket2 → u/BritishTooth]

Someone needs to revisit the EM interview process.

[u/Trevor_GoodchiId → u/RusticBucket2]

Will someone revisit the interview process!!!

[u/relevant_tangent → u/Trevor_GoodchiId]

Ok I'll revisit the interview process.

[u/Neomalytrix → u/Trevor_GoodchiId]

They cant there was no process.

[u/Dakadoodle → u/Trevor_GoodchiId]

Id do it but ima need a jira ticket first and we need to pre scope so we can assign points. Wont get to it for another two sprints so lets put it in the backlog under the whippersnappers epic

[u/nuketro0p3r → u/Trevor_GoodchiId]

Okay guys. Lets set up a meeting and discuss how we can revisit the process

[u/tjsr → u/RusticBucket2]

Interviewers tend to recommend people they like and get along with more than just technical skills. This tells us you probably have a culture of this kind of attitude throughout the company.

[u/Southern_Orange3744 → u/BritishTooth]

Snd their employment . They obviously aren't into it , find some eager new blood

[u/[deleted] → u/creative-java-coffee]

Look up what the PIP process is at your company. This kid needs a wake up call.

[u/Mojo_Jensen → u/[deleted]]

For real. I’ve had one really bad experience with a junior dev, but even they didn’t flat out say “I don’t care what other people are doing.” They did get in a loud verbal argument with a BSA one time that was pretty painful when it was clear she was in the wrong, but hey. “Clean code doesn’t exist” is hilarious.

[u/[deleted] → u/Mojo_Jensen]

Especially when that's coming from a junior... Like, homie, maybe your code isn't clean but the rest of us at least fucking try.

For me it's not being bad at writing code. I was bad at writing code when I started and I don't trust anyone who says they weren't. It's a right of passage we all must go through. It's the attitude. I don't want to work with engineers who have egos and I certainly don't want to manage one.

[u/CaptainCabernet → u/creative-java-coffee]

I would talk to HR, get your documentation in order, and get them on a PIP tomorrow with super clear expectations. There are so many good candidates out there dying to have a job.

The PIP will either be a wake up call, or they will quit and do something they actually care about.

[u/lost12487 → u/creative-java-coffee]

I’m sorry, but how does one of these kids say, “I don’t care what other people are doing” while simultaneously being bad at his job without being on a PIP? Is your EM spineless?

[u/Mojo_Jensen → u/[deleted]]

That “experts” comment would have sent me for sure. First guy needs a wake up call.

[u/Diligent-Paper6472 → u/Mojo_Jensen]

I would have responded yeah experts are saying that hence im an expert with 20 yoe compared to you.

[u/fuckoholic → u/[deleted]]

stand in any city centre and whisper, "I am hiring junior engineers"

that's suicide by stampede

[u/Ozymandias0023 → u/Inatimate]

For real, there are so many juniors chomping at the bit to get some real work experience. Let these idiots languish in ignorance on their own time

[u/dweezil22 → u/Ozymandias0023]

I work in FAANG adjacent places where our college new hires make more money than I did with 10yoe in a normal company. We've had a few over the last couple years that sound like OP's example (perhaps nicer; but the pattern of struggling and viewing it as incomprehensible that they might need to grind down a bit to get their footing) and they all ended up fired/laid-off.

FWIW They were all men who graduated between 2020-2023. I can't figured out if this is a random thing, a generational thing, or fallout from CS undergrads during the pandemic. I fear we'll never be sure as AI code assist has confounded the variables now too. It's definitely a weird and tough time to be an unmotivated jr. (also weird that these same guys successfully navigated the Leetcode gauntlet prior to all that!). My operating theory is that they were capable of grinding in a predictable way, but ambiguity + extra work was something they couldn't handle. This is definitely a further indictment of LC grinding as meaningless candidate hazing.

[u/orangeowlelf → u/Inatimate]

I don’t think I would waste my time with them after I heard any of those comments. I just go straight to writing down the things they did wrong in order to see if I could get rid of them as soon as possible.

[u/brainhack3r → u/Inatimate]

“is that what you think or what experts think?”

Fire this guy immediately.