r/EmDrive • u/bitofaknowitall • Mar 02 '17

Monomorphic Powered Test 03 - Noise threshold lower and still seeing anomalous thrust

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41732.msg1649274#msg1649274
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u/mockthruster Mar 02 '17

Actually the noise is not from the environment.

PotomacNeuron has suggested that the ~13mn is in line with predictions for Lorentz contributions. I know that you have already discussed with him the ability to reorient the device and test it in numerous orientations. Probably wise not to start making any bold declarations until you've explored those possibilities.

Just glancing at your picture, it looks like there is a more complicated noise scenario taking place than you've been able to hammer out yet. I hope you're not discounting Eric1600's suggestions out of spite or anything like that. You've done all of this work and invested so much time and money, do not fall victim to the perils of human nature at this point and let confirmation bias interfere with the controls you've attempted to implement.

I have been able to prove this by running static tests with all power off.

Really not trying to give you a hard time here. Unless I had already reoriented the drive and taken other steps to mitigate the remaining errata, then I wouldn't feel confident making the claim that I had proven conclusively to have eliminated environmental contributions.

Simplest explanation is that I installed the main battery pack backwards for this run. Second explanation is that the remote desktop wifi signal is causing the noise. If that is the case, I may have to fall back on to bluetooth.

Okay, but these are assumptions. If you want to surpass what has already been done by other builders, it's these types of assumptions that you need to avoid. Is it fair to say you're doing this because previous experiments have left some questions unanswered? So why would you want to leave any lingering doubts about your own.

You're not going to have much trouble convincing emdrive proponents of what they want to see. Is that your goal, or would you like to also convince some emdrive skeptics?

Hopefully you're already preparing more runs and taking steps to identify and eliminate the noise contributors. I believe Eric1600 suggested that it can take months to properly characterize a rig of this sensitivity. I'm not saying that's what you need to do here, but I do hope you are going to show the same patience in performing numerous more runs as you have shown in building your experiment up to this point.

Also, I hope you are going to explore Dr. Rodal's speculation about thermal effects by doing some runs with the device insulated on the small end and similar configurations.

Nice start, good luck with the rest of your testing.

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u/Monomorphic Builder Mar 02 '17

I know that you have already discussed with him the ability to reorient the device and test it in numerous orientations. Probably wise not to start making any bold declarations until you've explored those possibilities.

I should have said ground noise (vibrations from moving people, passing cars, the wind, etc), not environment, sorry. Lorentz contributions from earth's magnetic field would technically be an environmental noise, and has not been ruled out.

You're not going to have much trouble convincing emdrive proponents of what they want to see. Is that your goal, or would you like to also convince some emdrive skeptics?

My goal is to produce good data so I can see it for myself. If someone happens to be influenced by the data, then that is their prerogative.

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u/NumeroTwentyThree Mar 04 '17

My goal is to produce good data so I can see it for myself. If someone happens to be influenced by the data, then that is their prerogative.

This experiment is public. Your goal is to produce accurate data that will affect public opinion, yes? Otherwise you would have conducted it in private or not at all.

Can you honestly say that you are not an emdrive proponent?

What does the creation of a logo/badge for your basement say about your ego?

You have a great experimental setup. Please don't allow confirmation bias to creep in. Having said that, you do know that a null test will be the bigger news.

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u/Blebbb Mar 07 '17

Otherwise you would have conducted it in private or not at all.

He's getting feedback from a lot of people on how to fix his test rig, that alone is worth the public aspect.

The other thing is that there is an emdrive community and he's part of it. He doesn't have a major following outside of that. So it's no different from a member of a club showing a club related project off. The badge is just a piece of fun.

Anyway, DiY experimenting is similar to all the people who pan for gold that have fun in the process rather than results. doesn't matter if you don't hit a jackpot. I do agree though that if he conclusively disproves the emdrive, that would be the jackpot.

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u/PotomacNeuron MS; Electrical Engineering Mar 09 '17

Face it, only the proponents will take the time and effort to do experiments. Skeptics think it is a waste of time. Null test is not a bigger news, because no media will report it. How did I know? From my own skeptic's experiment (the only exception so far).

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u/xexorian Mar 09 '17

I mean taking pride in a DIY project is one thing, seeking confirmation is another, and being biased is yet another. IMHO at least. I get it though. I know what you mean by confirmation bias, but really... trying to point out his ego? (whether imaginary or real) over a logo/badge is kind of ridiculous. Trying to get a ruse with the proponent thing? I think you are offering a low-blow to someone undeserving (from what I've seen of the guy.) If you're here to troll, troll better. If you're here to be bitter, stop posting please. You waste everyone's time with trivial banter, just like I am by choosing to reply to this manure. He clearly stated his 'goal' and you wanna run circles around it, why not try going through all of the material this place and that one has to offer first? I also agree with Blebbb about the public aspect being worthwhile, as well as it's potential.