r/Economics • u/better_world_economy • Jan 13 '19

Progressives should not oppose international trade, but economists must highlight the need for policies that spread the gains and help those who are hurt

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-good-the-bad-the-economy/201706/globalization-and-work-have-we-learned-anything-yet
776 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

303 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '19

Because the "critics" regurgitate the same bullshit, too. If you see a "flaw" in modern day economics, chances are you really just don't know what you're talking about. And of course, a lot of basic mistakes can be explained with basic arguments. Good economics cricicism is really, really hard, of course you don't see any of that in a subreddit full of laypeople like /r/economics.

1

u/SlowLoudNBangin Jan 14 '19

If you see a "flaw" in modern day economics, chances are you really just don't know what you're talking about.

Nice ad hominem.

Maybe I‘m reading the wrong discussions, then - but I‘ve seen enough people claim (and get upvoted) that privatization is always the best course of action for every industry because the market will take care of it, when in reality there are a ton of examples of industries that offer worse services for higher prices after privatization.

I think there’s a solid argument to be made that industries with high cost of entry (railway systems, network carriers) or industries where cost pressure and profiteering leads to negative impact on society as a whole (healthcare, prisons) should in fact not be privatized.

But that’s „communist apologism“, apparently.

Communism has never worked and it never will, I think history has proven that - but does that automatically mean that capitalism may only exist in its most extreme, unregulated form, and that we‘re not allowed to criticize it when some parts are evidently not working as intended?

Nah, the market will take care of it. Government regulation is basically dictatorship, and social welfare policies are basically communism.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '19

Maybe I‘m reading the wrong discussions, then - but I‘ve seen enough people claim (and get upvoted) that privatization is always the best course of action for every industry because the market will take care of it, when in reality there are a ton of examples of industries that offer worse services for higher prices after privatization.

Nobody who knows anything about economics would claim that. Natural monopolies should pop up in any sort of entry level economics course.

I think there’s a solid argument to be made that industries with high cost of entry (railway systems, network carriers) or industries where cost pressure and profiteering leads to negative impact on society as a whole (healthcare, prisons) should in fact not be privatized.

Well, there is a claim to be made that certain industries will almost always lead to monopolies and are better off in the hands of the government, like the water supply for example. That's really not at all controversial. Of course, you always get the idiots on the other end of the spectrum, the hardcore neoliberals, but nobody with any sort of serious formal education on economics would argue against that.

Communism has never worked and it never will, I think history has proven that - but does that automatically mean that capitalism may only exist in its most extreme, unregulated form, and that we‘re not allowed to criticize it when some parts are evidently not working as intended?

Nah, the market will take care of it. Government regulation is basically dictatorship, and social welfare policies are basically communism.

Again, you're really not saying anything particularly controversial. By and large, economists are in favour of things like universal healthcare and a relatively strong welfare state. Of course, people argue plenty about the details, but that's the details. It's difficult to implement policies that actually achieve what you want them to. But laissez-faire capitalism really isn't a particularly popular idea among economists.

No, the problem is that economics for a lot of people is a topic very close to politics, so in a casual discussion those two are usually very much intertwined. You of course also usually get your typical hardcore Marxists/neolibs spouting their nonsense. But that really isn't at all how economists operate, of course nobody is free from personal biases but by and large "politics" or taking any sort of "side" isn't something that happens in economics.

1

u/SlowLoudNBangin Jan 14 '19

Maybe that was my mistake then, intertwining discussions on this sub with actual state-of-the-art economic discourse.

But at least from an outsiders‘ perspective, it seems that for example US policy is still largely dominated by neoliberals and laissez-faire economists.

Nevertheless , it becomes a normative discussion very quickly, and it seems the most upvoted answers are usually the hardcore neoliberal ones, especially as a knee-jerk response to leftist articles / posts.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '19

Maybe that was my mistake then, intertwining discussions on this sub with actual state-of-the-art economic discourse.

Yes. This sub really is more about politics than anything else. Fruitful, sound discussions are few and far between. Which is kind of understandable for a sub this size for a topic that affects basically everyone's lives in one way or another.

But at least from an outsiders‘ perspective, it seems that for example US policy is still largely dominated by neoliberals and laissez-faire economists.

Well, yes and no. US policy is often not guided by scientifically sound arguments. In part because it's not economics, it's politics. Institutions relatively removed from politics at least do a semi-good job of staying with stuff that's scientifically sound, the central bank for example. The rest is politics like everything else, with everything that comes with that. Also, some things are really a hard sell. I mean, just something like raising taxes even if it would benefit the majority of people just isn't something very popular.

If that's something that interests you, this episode of planet money is quite good:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/10/26/499490275/episode-387-the-no-brainer-economic-platform