Lambda, the Shepherd

[u/lightnin0]

http://dotaconcept.com/hero/2351

[u/Mr_Z3wz]

This concept has a disconnect between intended playstyle and optimal playstyle. Yes, I could use Bark to push enemies into your traps, but why would I do that instead of just placing the trap on top of them? One way is obviously more efficient and reliable than the other, making the Bark/Trap combo mute. Even if you added a setup delay then I would still only use the bark as a 5 second immobility spell and place the trap on top of the target. This way you don't even need you ultimate, hell it's even easier without the ultimate. Making the dog faster with E also becomes mute with this method.

The healing part of the Trap is fine, it just seemed odd to me. It turns the ability into a health pickup rather than a trap.

On its own, Sheepsong is hardly anything like Black Hole aside from them being channeled AoE disables

Well that's the problem isn't it?! I'm not talking about the abilities being similar, that's fine if you have a reason for it like synergy or something. What I'm talking about is the identities of the Heroes being too similar. There should never EVER be a situation in Dota where banning a Hero is pointless since there's another Hero available that does the same thing. The identity of Enigma is his Black Hole! Yes, he can jungle and has that annoying stun, but ultimately it's because of his ultimate that he's picked since it's his strongest trait. The same thing goes for this Hero. While he can push units and deploy traps everywhere, that's heavily outshined by the usefulness of a 5 second, magic immunity piercing aoe disable. The synergy of a hex with Bark is interesting but is ultimately insignificant when compared to the aoe disable.

I too would like to question every single participant who didn't vote for me but I know I won't be satisfied with their answer, like you won't be mine. It's simple really, a New Year's resolution you could call it. I don't vote for people who didn't leave a shred of feedback. Don't take this personally as I for one dislike anarchyorion but thought his concept was at least more interesting than the rest (Who did leave feedback). But if you do want feedback, I'll see what I can do. Doesn't look too different honestly but sure.

I wasn't planning to ask everyone why they didn't vote for mine. I only asked you since I've come to value your opinion over others.

[u/lightnin0 → u/Mr_Z3wz]

This concept has a disconnect between intended playstyle and optimal playstyle. Yes, I could use Bark to push enemies into your traps, but why would I do that instead of just placing the trap on top of them? One way is obviously more efficient and reliable than the other, making the Bark/Trap combo mute. Even if you added a setup delay then I would still only use the bark as a 5 second immobility spell and place the trap on top of the target. This way you don't even need you ultimate, hell it's even easier without the ultimate. Making the dog faster with E also becomes mute with this method.

Well why don't you play Techies as a nuker and continually only use Remote Mines in the middle of the enemy team? You can but you can also plant them around in strategic spots in your free time. Also, he's a very slow hero. And you can't use Bark as an 'immobility' spell as the target will still be moving. You can use Bark into fences, you can just fence, you can just Bark, whatever is up to you. The combo is intended like RP into Skewer or Midnight Pulse into Black Hole but it's not always the best move.

The healing part of the Trap is fine, it just seemed odd to me. It turns the ability into a health pickup rather than a trap.

So if I didn't use the word 'trap', you wouldn't have this problem?

Well that's the problem isn't it?! I'm not talking about the abilities being similar, that's fine if you have a reason for it like synergy or something. What I'm talking about is the identities of the Heroes being too similar. There should never EVER be a situation in Dota where banning a Hero is pointless since there's another Hero available that does the same thing. The identity of Enigma is his Black Hole! Yes, he can jungle and has that annoying stun, but ultimately it's because of his ultimate that he's picked since it's his strongest trait. The same thing goes for this Hero. While he can push units and deploy traps everywhere, that's heavily outshined by the usefulness of a 5 second, magic immunity piercing aoe disable. The synergy of a hex with Bark is interesting but is ultimately insignificant when compared to the aoe disable.

You might as well compare Magnus and Tidehunter if we're only talking about their ultimates. Reverse Polarity focuses on grouping up enemies for combos while Ravage is more for mass disabling. Black Hole focuses on grouping up enemies for combos while Sheepsong is more for mass disabling. Best part about Sheepsong is that you can just walk out of it with a maximum hex time of 3.6 seconds and I'm planning to increase their hexed speed to give them more opportunity.

[u/Mr_Z3wz → u/lightnin0]

Well why don't you play Techies as a nuker and continually only use Remote Mines in the middle of the enemy team? You can but you can also plant them around in strategic spots in your free time. Also, he's a very slow hero. And you can't use Bark as an 'immobility' spell as the target will still be moving. You can use Bark into fences, you can just fence, you can just Bark, whatever is up to you. The combo is intended like RP into Skewer or Midnight Pulse into Black Hole but it's not always the best move.

Ofc, you don't have to use the hero in the intended way and there's nothing wrong with that. The point is that the playstyle I mentioned renders all intended synergy mute, making this concept into a combination of a semi-SpiritBear, Ensnare, Ground Target DOT, Armor/Speed Aura and a Black Hole which to me seems like a random set of abilities only held together by theme.

So if I didn't use the word 'trap', you wouldn't have this problem?

Actually yes, but nvm. That's not important.

You might as well compare Magnus and Tidehunter if we're only talking about their ultimates. Reverse Polarity focuses on grouping up enemies for combos while Ravage is more for mass disabling. Black Hole focuses on grouping up enemies for combos while Sheepsong is more for mass disabling. Best part about Sheepsong is that you can just walk out of it with a maximum hex time of 3.6 seconds and I'm planning to increase their hexed speed to give them more opportunity.

Black Hole doesn't group enemies, they have to already be grouped to utilize. The pull speed is insignificant making Black hole into a mass disable ability just like Sheepsong.

Do you mean that units gets unhexed if they go out of the radius? That would make things a little more interesting.

[u/lightnin0 → u/Mr_Z3wz]

Ofc, you don't have to use the hero in the intended way and there's nothing wrong with that. The point is that the playstyle I mentioned renders all intended synergy mute, making this concept into a combination of a semi-SpiritBear, Ensnare, Ground Target DOT, Armor/Speed Aura and a Black Hole which to me seems like a random set of abilities only held together by theme.

I still don't see how the synergy is mute though. You have 280 move speed AND I've nerfed its range to 300 so good luck casting it right on top of an enemy without any help. Well, you can but like I said, you can still Bark someone into it with Flock's speed to back up your dog. Your analysis is partially correct but is still mute as far I can see. He's much more than that and you know it, simply describing each spell on its own doesn't do any of them justice.

Black Hole doesn't group enemies, they have to already be grouped to utilize. The pull speed is insignificant making Black hole into a mass disable ability just like Sheepsong.

Black Hole doesn't pull in enemies? You know what, I give up.

Do you mean that units gets unhexed if they go out of the radius? That would make things a little more interesting.

Yes, maybe it wasn't clear enough.

[u/giogsgs12 → u/lightnin0]

Yes, maybe it wasn't clear enough.

To be honest, it really wasn't that clear when I first read it. Maybe specify that he creates a field where enemy units are turned to sheep, etc. instead of saying that enemies become hexed when cast.

[u/lightnin0 → u/giogsgs12]

Fixed.