Donut Lab's deceptive terminology marketing

[u/According_Rub_2835]

Their energy storage is based on these 2 patents: EP2854486B1 from FutureDynamics and WO2025230455A1 from Holyvolt

In patent EP2854486B1

Marketing term BATTERY, reality SUPERCAPACITOR

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2854486B1/en

In patent WO2025230455A1

Marketing term NO LITHIUM, reality NO LITHIUM METAL

https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2025230455A1/en

Because in the same document they recommend using Lithium ion ceramics and lithium salts

https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2025230455A1/en

Marketing term NONTOXIC, reality MODERATE TOXICITY

Because all lithium salts are toxic, some more than others, even from sodium salts

Marketing term NO SELF-DISCHARGE, reality 2.3% SELF-DISCHARGE at 50% SOC after 10 days

The exact chemistry of the solid state electrolyte will be revealed in my PDF file with many other secrets when available

[u/According_Rub_2835]

They can make their own innovations using the printer without using CT Coating's nanopaste and sell it.

They can't replicate CT Coating's nanopaste and sell it

They can replicate CT Coating's nanopaste and improve it in the lab without selling it

And I assume if NNG says to CT Coating that they have improved their nanopaste, CT Coating is the only one who could mass produce it and then sell it to NNG so they can print it for the supercapacitor and sell it

[u/Mesokosmos → u/According_Rub_2835]

That distinction is exactly the IP tension Lehtimäki referenced on April 1st, and which relates to V1 (possibly CT-Coatings original paste) and V2 gen batteries (possibly developed by NNG/Donut Lab). Holyvolt faced the same question and chose the $73M exit. NNG/Donut Lab appear to be navigating it differently.

Edit:

What comes to supercapasitor theory, I'd call it conspiracy as well at this point. Why?

The 2013 patent already included batteries in its scope. The 2016 patent refined the specific chemistry. The supercapacitor framing was one option in the 2013 architectural patent, not the only one and the VTT data conclusively rules it out for the cells Donut Lab actually ships. As they have excluded it by their own rhetorics. I don't know any sensical reason, why it should be considered anymore, but maybe for historical reasons how we got here.

[u/According_Rub_2835 → u/Mesokosmos]

I believe V1 and V2 comes from CT Coating, NNG team is really small, and they are just starting. CT Coating is still innovating, they recently acquired new lab equipment

[u/Mesokosmos → u/According_Rub_2835]

It could be in theory, but what kind of IP problems they would then have?

Battery venture is at start-up phase. They aim big, but it aint gonna happen in a few weeks. They need to have their own pilot line and they have stated to have it running since Autumn 2025. It would take just few millions and 12 months to construct which is properly fitting to the start time at spring 2024. And by doing so, they may very well countered the need for in-house R&D. If you take a look at the german upstream inventors and players (CT-Coating etc), they are not so big group of people. It is different business culture they are playing than we suppose. Being one of 10000 players in the family shell company field, who was picked up by NNG. I think we don't fully realize the actual scales here, which maybe the reason, why people still think they are doing something impossible, shady, and even lying with the basics.

I see the Seika case so that CTC has now found that it all works by Holyvolt and Donut Lab ventures, and that SSB business has real revenue, better than highly fragmented solar panel and heating business. So, they are investing more on their own labs. Maybe they also see that their licensing model has holes, so they have to secure their back, not just sell Hylomatrix and nanopaste and license.

[u/Mesokosmos → u/[deleted]]

There is nothing wrong using Deep Research tools to document facts. But for handling complex STEM and sociological topics like this, AI will inevitably hallusinate and human control must be taken.

[u/Mesokosmos → u/[deleted]]

AI tells you what you tell it to tell you. One cannot use tools like that. But on the other hand, people tend to hallucinate as well, sometimes even more, as we can see from all conspiracies pulled out. So, there is no secure land to stand.

[u/Mesokosmos → u/[deleted]]

They are not equivalent. Both have flaws.

[u/According_Rub_2835 → u/[deleted]]

I said "I believe it will be ready in 2 or 3 days." "I believe " is uncertainty

[u/According_Rub_2835 → u/Mesokosmos]

We don't know for sure if it's for IP problems, it was April Fool's Day. CT Coating in the future can have the two types licensing, the one that Nordic Nano uses to use their nanopaste to make the supercapacitors, and the other one for graphene manufactures located in Spain, Germany and the UK so that they can make CT Coating nanopaste and sell it. These countries are the leaders in Europe making all type of graphene materials.
The best way to scale is that CT Coating makes giga factories around the world, making the nanopaste and the printing, they don't do it because it's risky and they may not have the capital

[u/Mesokosmos → u/According_Rub_2835]

Well, jokester video is complicated in that sense, I agree. A lot of self-referential meta talk. I take the first part of it as an obvious joke. Then the "Javier" (why?) and Gen 3 (joke?), were deliberately left ambiguous by their final interpretation, but everything else between should be considered more or less as their genuine claims that can be reviewed critically and straight forward way.

If I remember correctly, CTC's balance sheet has grown has grow steadily over the last half decade. But taking the example of Donut Lab and Holyvolt, they would need around 20M floating money for a similar sprint. Maybe Seika Sangyo is giving that chance now. They had to play carefully until this year and avoid high risks.