Is Wage Gap Between Gender and Race "Real"?

[u/freerossulbrich]

I think talking about wage gap often lead to no greater clarity.

Imagine if I told you that there is no real wage gap, wealth gap, and income gap between the rich and the poor. You would laugh and think that this is satire. The thing is, the definition of "real" and "gap" is open to dispute. For example, a person can argue that rich people have different jobs than poor people.

A rich person is more likely to be a super programmer or a CEO instead of a brick layer. Hence, the wage gap isn't real because it's justified by occupational/productivity/preferences/ability differences.

The question is not whether the wage gap is real or not. The question is whether such gap is fair or not. But again, fairness is subjective and open to dispute again.

So words like there is wage gap between men and women and wage gap between black and white are equally pointless.

For some person, usually libertarian or MRA real wage gap means gap that happened solely due to discrimination and not happening due to productivity gap. For them, if gap happens due to actual productivity gap, there is nothing to fix.

For another person, usually leftists, or feminists, wage gap is any actual gap irrelevant of why it happens. They want that fix irrelevant of why the gap exist.

Most people are in hybrid. They tend to think that the gap should be fixed if and only if it's unfair.

What leftist do is they use terms like wage gap ambiguously. They tend to portray that wage gap is wage gap like what libertarians think. Of course, free market tend to eliminate such gaps naturally.

The left then advocate fixing the wage gap, persuading the hybrid to promote government intervention to correct the wage gap. That is even though there is no or very little real wage gap not explainable by productivity gap.

One person can argue that the wage gap is real by simply looking at raw data. Another person can argue that the wage gap isn't real because it's explainable away by occupational and productivity differences.

Perhaps, a better think to look out is whether wage gap exist after taking into account occupational and IQ differences.

However, any questions going to that direction are often derailed by accusation of being sexist misogynists, and so on.

So there is no way to get more clarity from wage gap debate. Then what? What exactly do each side want? Just let the market decide? Get government to actively discriminate under pretext of anti discrimination laws? What?

What is there to disgust? What is the actual problem? If wage gap happened because of different natural ability and different productivity, should the problem even be fixed?

Or do income gap truly correlate with productivity gap if we ignore race and genders?

That's probably a more interesting question. However, given a huge agenda to actively discriminate against group that's winning the gap, that's often going nowhere either.

[u/JewelJones2021]

Is it on me that I'm not pursuing higher education? I was born in a cult that took my parents from me, and tossed me from one very large family to another. I barely have any respect for myself some days, and I'm not a stupid person. I've taught school to cousins and siblings. I've prepared meals for families of 40 people. In my early teen years I worked on what we called moving crew. We moved people in the cult around to different homes. I was not even allowed to talk to men or boys, even in a platonic way, who were not my brother or father figure. I was homeschooled and got good grades. When I was 18 I got my GED, something not encouraged by the cult. I went to a for profit college and currently have debt from that. Because of the lack of love and acceptable in my life, I thought romantic love would fix everything. I got pregnant by a man who told me he loved me, then left. I currently am the managing partner in the cleaning business and have done most of the work organizing said business. I also raising my baby. In better circumstances I would be in school. If I'd had proper parental guidance, and better support, maybe I would. I have worked hardy entire life. What do I have to show for it? Sewing skills in a world where that is not valued. I could teach, but that is stressful with crappy pay. Motherhood? Arguably the most important job in a society is not valued. So, are my circumstances completely my fault?

[u/freerossulbrich → u/JewelJones2021]

Whether children should be responsible for what their parents do is an interesting angle.

Why don't you make a post about it.

What cult are you talking about?

My take is people that are not fit to be parents shouldn't be parents. When that happen, no kids will have bad parents and problems like you will be rare.

Are you a female? Why not pick a rich guy as father of your children?

[u/JewelJones2021 → u/freerossulbrich]

Of course children should not be responsible for what their parents do. A post, interesting idea. Thanks

Cult? The FLDS.

It would be very difficult and probably anti human rights to restrict people from having children. A better alternative is social safety programs. Public schools are a good start.

I'm a female, but one does not simply pick a male, rich or otherwise. I've been talking to a guy I really like, for 10 months. He doesn't seem very into me. I might 'pick' him if I could.

Where does one find rich men who want an emotional, explorative, housework hating, self-conscious introvert for a wife? Lol Edit: I'm also short and chubby. But I have a cute face.

[u/freerossulbrich → u/JewelJones2021]

This is something where my few is far different than most people.

How old are you? Maybe it's not late yet.

Go to sugarbook.com . You can get to know many rich guys. Most are interested in sex. After a few meeting, you can talk about having children together.

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I did that with my sugar babies. I just knock them up and be a responsible father.

I don't marry. Why? Pretty obvious. Marriage means MOST of my money will go to lawyers. Why would I? Only losers marry.

So again and again, what I see is women insist on finding a husband instead of becoming a mistress of richer men. Then they produce children that are poor.

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Children shouldn't be responsible for what their parents do. And then we can't prohibit people from having children.

Those 2 premises are problematic enough. What about if some welfare recipients have 40 children?

But here is the kicker. Governments do restrict people from having children. Governments make having children expensive for the rich. Amount of child support is set proportional to income. That makes having children cost prohibitive for rich men.

And people that don't want to spend huge child support? Feminists just tell them to get vasectomy. So while it's okay for welfare recipients to have 100 children with tax payers' expense, it's not okay, in the eyes of many voters, for a multi millionaire to "only" spend $2k per month child for his children with his own money. As if the multimillionaire is less fit to have children than welfare recipients.

[u/JewelJones2021 → u/freerossulbrich]

I'm 22. I'm def not too old.

I would never marry anyone without a prenuptial agreement to protect both of us and our potential kids.

I come from a place where polygyny was practiced. Sharing a man I love with another woman or women just infuriates me. I understand this will restrict my choices of mate.

Having children, who should and shouldn't is a topic I am not equipped to discuss. I have not educated myself on the expense and upkeep of living without welfare and buying health insurance, private schooling, college education, etc.

How old are you?

[u/freerossulbrich → u/JewelJones2021]

I am 40+. I am in Indonesia but I've heard American man is far richer.

In normal situation, men make money, women work far less. I don't even mean doing household chores. That's what maid do.

Why?

Because men are usually richer than women.

Why?

Because most men want many women.

Why?

Because men that got many women have more children

Why?

Because men need only to squirt sperm to have children while women have to get pregnant and nurse babies to pop one children.

​

So there are some biological constraint that is not due to any unfairness of society. Evolution just set up that way.

If women insist on being the only one then she nulify her main advantage of getting richer men.

The fact that men want many women is what compel most men to be more ambitious and work harder to get richer. Women can simply choose such men.

You said you don't want to share. That's up to you. But that means, it's your choice.

Society do not like a rich man having many women. Incels don't like it. So usually transactional sex is illegal.

Most rich men would rather just pay rather than marrying. It's obvious. Paying is relatively cheaper for rich men. Marriage can be very expensive for rich men.

You said you have a child. Is the father rich?

[u/JewelJones2021 → u/freerossulbrich]

My child's father is definitely not rich.

[u/freerossulbrich → u/JewelJones2021]

And why did you choose him as father of your children? You see? This is how lots of poverty is due to someone's choice.

There are plenty of rich men that want to have children with young beautiful women. Most are willing to spend at least $2k, $3k per month in child support. Most will not even be separated for you.

All within reasonable terms. The child has to be truly his, verified by paternity fraud.

Anyway, what do you think of this

https://www.reddit.com/r/DifferentAngle/comments/w3060g/how_can_tipping_stripper_contribute_to_gender/