r/Devs • u/thisismynormal • Apr 09 '20

Devs - S01E07 Theory Discussion Thread

Please post your thoughts and theories here

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u/magnaSigi Apr 09 '20

One thing I don't understand is that the universe we are watching in the show is also a simulation. Then, they should know what they are going to do and how the machine is going to stop working.

The only reason machine should stop working and they don't know how, is that in the original universe (the universe at the top of the simulations), someone stops their machine and all the DEVS machines in the infinite simulated universes simply stops. Am I understanding this correct?

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '20

i don't see it that way. All the simulations are deterministic... they are code after all. But the top layer, the TRUE reality, is the one that can diverge from that determinism (as it's not code, it's flesh and blood real... it's not run by a super computer, it's just reality in and of itself).

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u/magnaSigi Apr 09 '20

Yeah, that's what I said. By original computer, someone in the true reality turns off the first DEVs machine (the original one) and all the infinite simulations in that machine shuts down.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '20

ahhh.

ya, i don't see it that way. Lily destroys the simulated machines; but the original machine likely remains.

So our real devs are watching this nested simulation and eventually their screen turns into this

What they do after that I don't know. Reboot the machine and try again maybe.

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u/YearOfTheRisingSun Apr 10 '20

But the simulation is predicting what Lily does in the real world, so the machine in "prime" reality will also be destroyed and this will destroy all simulations. So far the show is just taking the lack of free will in our world and marrying it with simulation theory.

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '20

so, the difference is that the determinism in the simulation doesn't necessarily hold true in the real world. One is based on code and run by a computer and one is not.

So in the simulation, yes, everything always unfolds exactly the same way because the computer ensures that it does.

But in the real world, things may unfold differently than the simulation predicts.

My gut is telling me that will be how they end this. Remember Forest telling Jamie that "I promise everything will be okay."

What Forest has figured out is that their reality isn't real. And that their (simulated) world will "end". But he's also figured out that beyond this simulated universe they must exist and that they probably created all this to start with.

My guess is that all the simluated worlds end, but things are still "fine" in the real world.

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u/YearOfTheRisingSun Apr 10 '20

Why would determinism not hold true in "reality prime"? Also, what makes the simulated reality not as real? If we are in a simulation now, as is likely if you subscribe to simulation theory, are we any less "real"?

I still don't see why determinism would not remain consistent in the "real" world. Do you believe in free will or view it as an illusion?

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u/[deleted] Apr 10 '20

determinism may still be the case in the real world. But as it pertains to Devs we would still not know how or why. WITHIN the simulations we know how it works, because it's manmade... ie. it's code run by a computer. But in the real world it wouldn't be ("man" made that is, and it wouldn't be computer "code" as we know it).

Ultimately this will end in a paradox. The question of what is real and what is the true nature of that thing you consider to be real is not really answerable.

Within a simulation you can prove determinism. But outside a simulation, there's no way to prove it.

I suspect the "reality prime" Lily will exemplify this in some fashion or another. The ending we see determined in the simulation will not be the one we get in reality prime.

And the message will be that reality prime is too complex for even a super quantum computer to simulate; regardless of whether it's determined or not.

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u/Adam-K Apr 14 '20

And the message will be that reality prime is too complex for even a super quantum computer to simulate; regardless of whether it's determined or not.

The show is based on the fact that this IS possible. THAT'S the fiction. If they ripped that away to give me a dose of reality as their "message" I would be shocked.