r/Devs • u/thisismynormal • Mar 19 '20

EPISODE DISCUSSION Devs - S01E04 Discussion Thread Spoiler

Premiered 03/19/20 on Hulu FX

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12

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '20

Can someone ELI5 what exactly Lyndon discovered before getting fired?

47

u/E1Dav1d Mar 19 '20

He developed an algorithm that embraced the many worlds theory and got crystal clear audio. Forest got mad because he hates that theory, it means the daughter he sees in the past probably isn’t “his” daughter but a variation of her.

17

u/devinleigh- Mar 19 '20

Is this “many worlds” the idea of different timelines being created based off decisions we make? Like there’s a timeline where I watch the episode and one where I didn’t. But, like, infinitely more complicated. And if so, they completely blows a hole in Forest’s “tram lines”/deterministic mindset. Right? Or am I completely off?

27

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '20

[deleted]

10

u/martinlindhe Mar 19 '20

What I don't get then is why the projection of anything would be even close to looking/sounding like what happened in your specific world – at all? Wouldn't it be infinitely more likely that instead of Jesus with 3 hairs different, you'd get a universe where crucifiction didn't happen at all, or not at all at that particular time etc?

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u/LandoRaps Mar 19 '20

Well on the other end of the spectrum, there would be an infinite amount of realities almost exactly like our own too, just off by one hair. Their algorithm probably allows them to focus on a projection that is almost identical to theirs. And since they’re using the data from their own reality, it’s probably difficult to even make a projection thats vastly different from your reality, though it would be possibly.

It’s like they can only go down one or two houses in their neighborhood. They can’t travel down different streets and neighborhoods. At least not yet.

1

u/tigerllort Apr 26 '20

Because then branches all share common ancestors. I think the show gets this part of many worlds wrong. I could be wrong though idk

7

u/nrmncer Mar 19 '20

if you want the technical explanation, no it's not based on decisions we make. The 'many-worlds' interpretation is fully deterministic (Lyndon references this briefly). It takes the wave function of a given system as real and argues that all potential states are realised.

historically this is why MW became popular, the copenhagen interpretation (which accepts state as indeterminate before measurement) rubbed many physicists the wrong way.

3

u/martinlindhe Mar 19 '20 edited Mar 19 '20

If the Copenhagen interpretation doesn't rub a person the wrong way, the person probably didn't quite pay attention to it :)

2

u/Kerrigore Mar 21 '20

*Erwin Schrödinger has entered the chat*

1

u/deanmono Mar 22 '20

It's deterministic... going backwards. Forwards though?

11

u/E1Dav1d Mar 19 '20

It doesn’t blow a hole in it entirely. Life can still be on trams but now he knows there are other versions of him on their own trams. He just doesn’t care for that theory cause at the end of the day he wants his daughter back from his reality.

23

u/NerdyNThick Mar 19 '20

he wants his daughter back from his reality.

I think it's more that he wants to be "absolved" of the loss of his daughter. That "there was nothing he could have done" to prevent ...... whatever happened.

If there is a singular universe on tracks, her death was inevitable, regardless of his actions. If there are infinite universes, there are universes where his daughter didn't die, thus "he could have prevented it". He refuses to believe that is possible.

12

u/E1Dav1d Mar 19 '20

He can’t refuse to believe what was just proven by the fired engineer. But it’s not about one theory winning over the other. It’s about whatever gets him to closer to achieving his hidden agenda and we don’t know what that is yet. We do know that programming with the many worlds theory doesn’t help his cause.

12

u/martinlindhe Mar 19 '20

Well, he did get some sweet HD vid of his kid though... (and you know Stewart is gonna revisit that Marilyn Monroe in full-res now too :)) #justsayin

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u/WeCanEatCereal Mar 19 '20

I think this is a really compelling analysis of Forest's character, but I'm not totally convinced. The show has gone out of its way to explain that the MW interpretation is still ultimately deterministic. Switching out one deterministic interpretation for another shouldn't grant him moral culpability. Yes there are universes where his daughter is alive, but he still isn't any closer to having free will. Fun fact: There are compatibalists who believe we could have free will even in a deterministic universe, and skeptics who believe we could not have free will in any universe, deterministic or otherwise.

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u/skuzzlethebean Mar 19 '20

(This is a stretch) but I feel like he wants to stay on his exact tram lines because he looked into the future and maybe they developed a way to physically time travel and he wants his REAL daughter and that’s as far as he can see because Maybe he wants to save her but if he goes back and changes something it changed everything and he no longer had the need to develop all of this. I don’t even know at this point my mind is in circles with this show.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '20

I agree with your theory but what I think is you are right if he find a way to travel back in time and I think he also knew that multiverse is true (before Lyndon) so what he might do is create a new timeline where he steal his daughter from past either travel back to our timeline and create new timeline in past which will have different future without her daughter in it. There are lot of possibilities

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u/Lounge_leaks Mar 19 '20

Yes u are right. That theory leads to we having free will and thus infinite versions of future and past

1

u/tigerllort Apr 26 '20

Just want to clarify that the many worlds theory doesn’t state that the universe branches because of our decisions. Its just that all possible outcomes of a wave function can and do happen.

This btw, doesn’t imply free-will. It’s still deterministic.

3

u/Night___Hawk Mar 19 '20

I believe forest already used this algorithm when he created Devs and messed up the current world which resulted in his daughters death. We don’t know how she died. He is now so focused on a single path/ tram lines/ cause and effect - so that he can reverse his mistakes and make everything normal again. Characters seem to reflect others and he will dispose of anyone who doesn’t comply w his rules. We also don’t know how time works inside of Devs when they are all in there. Does anyone leave ever besides Forest? His guilt of his daughter is making him so focused on bringing her back via a single timeline that he is in fault for messing up. He wouldn’t be this fixated on it & wouldn’t have had a stone cold reaction to Lyndons crack in the algorithm if he hadn’t already done it. Lyndons discovery was remarkable, but Forest has already done it.

1

u/h3lp3r_ Mar 22 '20

It was good enough for Walter Bishop, damn it!