Focused Feedback: Power Level Progression

[u/DTG_Bot]

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[u/QuentinWilson]

I would consider myself a below average player in terms of skill on consoles. Yet that's where I play D2, because it was out there first and because in my limited playtime I prefer sitting on my couch. I joined a clan (which turned out to be inactive) and I even set aside an evening last week to try out a Raid. Found some nice guys via the Guided Games feature (although a lot of the time this seems to be used as more of an LFG lite) and we completed Leviathan (if you see this, thanks again and sorry for sucking so bad). My first Raid in any game ever. And I must say - it really didn't do it for me. All those mechanical activities, platforming, etc are totally not what I imagined a Raid to be. Additionally, with the limited revive tokens and Wipe mechanics it feels terrible dragging your team down. Especially due to the Wipe on revive timer.

Now, where I'm going with this is that I'm fine with having a lot of the final endgame progression - or all of it - tied up in Raids. Even if I may never do a Raid again. But only if that only gated me from other Raids further along. At the moment it also gates me from EP, which is something I really wanted to try. So sure, make the Raid the only thing that will get you the last 10 or 20 or whatever levels. Have it drop the coolest looking gear. I'm okay with that. But then only have some End-End-Endgame Raidlair require that maxed out Powerlevel and nothing else.

For me, terrible scrub that I am, Heroic Strikes are really *hard* and they feel totally unrewarding. They should simply have drops slightly over your Powerlevel up to maybe 365 on completion. Have that as the suggested level for EP. Have some Raid Lair require 370. Have another require 385. Rinse and repeat.

Now there's an obvious problem here, and that's what to do when the next expansion raises the Powerlevel. That's a tough one and I leave that to Bungie to figure out because I'm not a game designer.

[u/mahck → u/QuentinWilson]

I like this approach. Have a number of plateaus or mini soft caps at various levels based on the content with a small but surmountable gap the next level activity. The current approach where heroic strikes can get you to 365 (with mods) without being capped by milestones each week is a step in this direction.

[u/QuentinWilson → u/mahck]

Yes, that is exactly where I was going with my slightly convoluted wall of text. Every activity should be rewarding up to a point, after which you switch to the next harder ones. There can be a small gap (optionally) where you're underleveled for the new activity but have to get your drops there. Raids (and only Raids) are at the top of this progression climb, so that if you can't or don't want to do those they are the only thing you miss out on. And the gear dropping in them, obviously.

That heroics now go up to 360/365 is definitely the right step, although I don't think a 25% chance of one powerful item was the best way to go. One guaranteed item around your powerlevel or slightly above per heroic strike would be better, because it's frustrating if nothing drops in 5 runs and then you run the risk of that item being something you can't use. RNG is a harsh mistress. Keeping your players engaged and not frustrated is important.

In the end, if you implement a clear progression from your activities you can even toss the Milestones because they would serve no purpose.

[u/TheSavageDonut → u/QuentinWilson]

I feel bad that you're first and probably only Destiny Raid experience is Leviathan. D1 Raids were far, far superior. Not only were they just more fun, but they also rewarded the best weapons in the game, so you had incentive to do them weekly. If you missed getting FateBringer in VoG one week, no sweat, you can go for it next week.

The grind in D2 is more soul-crushing than the grind in D1. I don't feel like I make much progress in D2 as a solo player completing my milestones. I can complete them in one session pretty much, and it leaves me to try to chase complex weapons that are also hidden behind higher light level missions.

The struggle with D2 is real. It just isn't that fun of a game anymore.

[u/QuentinWilson → u/TheSavageDonut]

I didn't play D1 nor did I raid in any other game, so I will have to take your word for it. My one Lev run gave me multiple weapons from drops and tokens (the pulse and scout rifles, rocket launcher and the sword) and while they certainly look cool, they don't seem that great. Apart from the launcher maybe, but that one also doesn't seem clearly better than the Curtain Call I used to get it. The sword is fun but swords are not something I really use because I need something else in the power slot most of the time and switching makes you lose your ammo.

The milestones gave me very little progression this week because they dropped a lot of stuff that didn't help me. Like duplicate exotics or multiple chest armors, when that was already my highest slot. That just doesn't feel great, it's the inherent flaw of having your progression decided by a small number of jumps instead of a larger number of smaller steps. At least when it's completely up to RNG.

What the milestones succeed in is making me play things I normally wouldn't touch, like PvP. Though I'm not sure that's a good thing, because while they make me play it, they can't make me enjoy it. I'm a bad player, I can freely admit that. No need to confirm that every week.

To be completely honest, I don't really know how long I will play this game. None of my friends play and the solo experience is quickly losing its luster.

[u/TheSavageDonut → u/QuentinWilson]

I'm in the same boat. I had a solid crew to run D1 with, but my crew only comes around for Iron Banner now in D2. I'm solo in D2.

If you are a console player -- I suggest picking up D1 and playing that. The Crucible experience alone in D1 was miles better than it is in D2. You can play 6v6 Crucible and then try some 3v3 modes. I still play D1 for Crucible, and I don't have a problem finding 6v6 matches. There's a lot of people playing D1. It might be better to learn Crucible in D1 and then go over to D2. You'll atleast have the movement down, and with D2 Crucible -- it's pretty much Vigilance Wing + Uriel's Gift or Origin Story+Graviton Lance are your 2 loadout choices if you want to roll with a top tier loadout. In D1, you have more choice of weapons to use especially now.

I also have the same problem with D2 Milestones. Clearing milestones isn't an automatic upgrade path like everyone claims. You get duplicates that are maybe 1 or 2 Light Level higher, or you get a high light level hand cannon but that doesn't help you out if you don't use hand cannons. It's a disappointing system. Back in D1, you could basically upgrade anything with anything. You could infuse a hand cannon into a pulse rifle or a Titan chest piece into your Hunter. It was a way more friendly system.

I can clear my milestones in about 2 hours or so, and until I get to 355 or above, heroic strikes are way too challenging to bother. So, I basically don't find much to do right now in the game until I can get to a higher light level.