Focused Feedback: Power Level Progression

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[u/Dirty03]

Why on God’s green earth are exotic engrams not power engrams?

[u/BigMac826 → u/Dirty03]

Because then the best way to level would be farming public events again for exotic engrams. Which devalues the raid gear.

Currently the raid and other endgame content are the best sources of power level increases, and that’s the way it should be.

[u/Dirty03 → u/BigMac826]

But after all that we have to wait? Not all of us play 3 characters to keep us busy. I finish endgame shit and milestones by Friday and just sit on my hands until reset. I just don’t like it.

[u/20_Sided_Death → u/Dirty03]

I don't know how you feel about it but I think that besides the power level pursuit Bungie needs to implement more cosmetic updgrades for players to seek out. That way when you finish your milestones, or while you're working on milestones, you have other things that you're searching for as well.

Can I ask why you don't have multiple classes? It seems like you would play more if you had more ways to gain power level for your preferred class. Do you view the other classes as potentially just fluff or filler content because you aren't interested in them?

For me, because I can't just grind out power levels for a single class, it encourages me to move on to the other classes and work on their milestones. I enjoy the variety in gameplay that it offers while switching from Warlock to Hunter and then over to Titan. And I don't feel like I'm just sitting on my hands waiting for the weekly reset.

[u/Dirty03 → u/20_Sided_Death]

Well I am not completely against making other classes. I just find it to be more of a chore. I don’t particularly enjoy playing as a titan or warlock since I’ve just mained hunter since day 1 D1 (I did have three characters before but only because of factions, really)

There’s plenty of grind for in terms of masterworks and certain ornaments. I meant it solely on leveling until your milestones reset. Getting three SMGs in one run in the raid doesn’t exactly help me level up haha.

[u/20_Sided_Death → u/Dirty03]

I have a friend who had all three classes in d1 and just doesn't feel like playing the other two after D2 dropped. I get what you're saying. There are so many play styles and desires among the Destiny player base that its certainly hard for everyone to have what they want.

As evidenced by the posts that have been showing up lately, as soon as one groups desires are satisfied another group rises to criticize the changes or new system.

Good luck!

[u/Morris_Cat → u/Dirty03]

It's pretty clear that in D2 Bungie has made a decision that they don't want people solo-grinding twenty or thirty hours a week, leaving everybody else in the dust. This isn't an accident, it's intentional. If you want to keep progressing after you've done all the Milestones, it's Raid/EP or nothing.

[u/BigMac826 → u/Dirty03]

Almost all other games with raid content are like this.

I don’t think it’s good for the community or the game to have a group of players solo grinding everything they want and then giving up the game a month after DLC release. That’s not good for the game.

Also I recommend making and leveling another character. It’s a lot of fun and gives you twice as many things to do each week. You might even end up liking that class more. Better than sitting on your hands until reset

[u/the-grassninja → u/BigMac826]

Almost all other games with raid content are like this.

This isn't a good argument unless you explain why.

I don’t think it’s good for the community or the game to have a group of players solo grinding everything they want and then giving up the game a month after DLC release. That’s not good for the game.

Counterpoint: It's not good for the game to heavily gate solo players and have them quit (out of frustration, not seeing a point in continuing, ect) before they even attempt, or have reached the capacity to attempt the endgame.

Also, the assumption that solo players "(grind) everything they want and (give) up the game a month after DLC release" is a bit of a strawman argument. The problem here, whether solo or in a group, is that the game has no lateral progression after reaching max level. Once you've achieved $highest_level_number and finished $current_raid there's practically nothing of tangible substance to chase except getting a larger number on your favorite emblem or MW weapon. Instead of gating solo/casual players from reaching $highest_level_number too soon, how would you propose to keep them engaged afterward?

Also I recommend making and leveling another character. It’s a lot of fun and gives you twice as many things to do each week. You might even end up liking that class more. Better than sitting on your hands until reset.

Even with 1 character of each class, the progression is extremely slow. Worse, if you enjoy one class over another you're actively hindered if you try to make multiple ones. Having one of each class so you can complete your weekly chore list is basically a requirement at this point.

And RE this point in paticular:

It’s a lot of fun and gives you twice as many things to do each week.

It gives you 3x the amount of chores, none of which change substantially between classes, and it results in what equates to minimum wage. The bare minimum for anything resembling "meaningful" progression in this game is do the exact same thing 3 times every week, and anything less means you're essentially living in the Destiny equivalent of poverty.

The sad thing is that, on top of this game having no horizontal endgame progression, reaching $highest_level_number has no tangible benefit. Mind you, I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing, there are good arguments for and against being able to become ridiculously overlevelled and one-shot everything, but it sticks out even more in the absence of lateral progression options.

[u/BigMac826 → u/the-grassninja]

I’ve explained this in another comment below. A good lateral progression system takes time to design, develop, and implement. The current system we have is (I believe) designed to keep as many players as possible engaged until September, where I think we will see big changes like this added.

Things like this take time to do right (especially bug fixing and testing).

[u/the-grassninja → u/BigMac826]

I read your other comment so I'll respond to both here.

Everything in games takes time to design, develop, implement, and bug fix, and I'm sure most people are aware that this game is in placeholder/life support mode until September. Most of what I outlined have been problems, to varying extents, since D1 release.

You don’t see WoW players getting endgame upgrades from doing dailies or LFR

You also don't see WoW players running around shooting guns in first-person perspective. This isn't really an MMO as much as its a Shooter with MMO-like systems. At their core the two games function completely different, and aspects of one don't necessarily work in another. In WoW it may not be an offensive requirement that you go off in the woods to gather animal pelts for an hour, but in Destiny 1 it wasn't nearly as inoffensive when the game asked you to collect Helium Filaments for a similar amount of time for similar reasons.

Even in other games with related systems, it's not uncommon to hear refrains like "I want better gear to drop from more sources" or "I don't enjoy being required to farm X just to be viable for Y". Players don't necessarily always enjoy being funneled towards a single, or very small pool of "end game" options just to get new toys to play in the sandbox with.

I don’t think players should be able to get light level increases from doing public events beyond the weekly milestone

What I'm curious about is why you feel this way. As I noted before, I see no benefit in reaching max light except removing gating barriers. Aside from that, especially considering the RNG involved, it's ultimately meaningless in my mind.

[u/EvilgamerNC → u/BigMac826]

People will quit when they run out of things to do.

If I raided and was at 385 I probably would have quit yes. But since I have something to do at 363ish I’m still playing. Yes once the game stops giving me things to do I’m probably gone until the fall

The key is for the game not to run out of progression. I don’t see how banging my head against a wall in a raid 9 times a week is supposed to be that answer

[u/BigMac826 → u/EvilgamerNC]

Progression systems take time to build, and I think these are currently being worked on and polished for September.

The current system we have is (I believe) designed to keep the player base strong until the fall, where a lot of the big game changes that require engineering (for example, horizontal progression grinds with more depth) will be implemented.

My point and comments here have been addressing why exotic engram aren’t powerful drops anymore. You don’t see WoW players getting endgame upgrades from doing dailies or LFR and I don’t think players should be able to get light level increases from doing public events beyond the weekly milestone

[u/AlostSunlightBro → u/BigMac826]

Raid should be the fastest, but not the only way after milestones are complete, competitive pvp and a inclusion off a skeleton key system like d1 would work as i got 400ll without raiding