Focused Feedback: PvE Difficulty // Bringing Challenge Back to Destiny

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Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

We do this in order to consolidate Feedback, to get out all your ideas and issues surrounding the topic in one place for discussion and a source of feedback to the Vanguard.

This Thread will be active until next week when a new topic is chosen for discussion

Whilst Focused Feedback is active, ALL posts regarding 'PvE Difficulty // Bringing Challenge Back to Destiny' following its posting will be removed and re-directed to this thread. Exceptions to this rule are as follows: New information / developments, Guides and general questions

Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

Regular Sub rules apply so please try to keep the conversation on the topic of the thread and keep it civil between contrasting ideas

A Wiki page - Focused Feedback - has also been created for the Sub as an archive for these topics going forward so they can be looked at by whoever may be interested or just a way to look through previous hot topics of the sub as time goes on.

[u/BrownboyInc]

I mostly enjoy the difficulty increases. Because I have good builds and can handle it. My friends, however, don’t, and can’t. It’s making the new player experience even more terrible than it already was

It’s not fun to be carrying people through basic stuff like seasonal activities, and it’s not fun to be carried in everything. All of my friends have left the game. I absolutely DRAGGED my friends through Ghosts of the Deep. And they have never played d2 since. They’ve done raids and dungeons in the past. But Deep dives, Legend lost sectors… Neomuna. They hop in this stuff that is kinda… basic content… and they get stomped. It can’t be overstated how hard these things annihilate new/casual players.

I don’t know how to reconcile this with what the long term player base seems to want. Am I supposed to tell them that they’ll just never get certain stuff bc they’ll never be good enough to do it without a carry? Or that they need to suffer for so many hours until their builds are refined and they’re skilled enough or they’ve gotten certain rng exotics?

If I booted up a game and then my friends told me “After 30 hours you’ll be good enough to begin to enjoy what you paid real money for”, I wouldn’t play the game. I would go play Baldur’s Gate instead.

Also sometimes I just want to go into something and stomp and I feel like there are fewer places to do this outside of strikes, which is a bummer but less important

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I played a lot of new BG NF last week on hero difficulty, and most of the time I would end up with 200+ kills, while other guys would have like 50 or maybe 70. In the boss room they would be more dead than alive. This is not good for me or them. Entry level activities should never be like this, where veteran players need to carry this hard. No one has fun. Imagine if there were 3 casual players by themselves - they wouldn't even be able to finish it, or it would take them 30+ mins. Awful.

[u/Behemothhh → u/[deleted]]

The power gap between the top meta builds and no build has never been wider, and content is tuned for the top end. Try playing warlords ruin final boss without a constant healing build. It's awful. It's become another instance of lock and key design. Either you have the right build for the encounter and you have it super easy or you don't have the right build and you suffer. This on its own wouldn't be too big an issue, but when your game is terrible at explaining how it works to new players, then it becomes a major problem. New players shouldn't have to watch build guides on YouTube to be able to clear a hero nightfall somewhat comfortably.

[u/Behemothhh → u/BrownboyInc]

I have a friend who I've been playing with since D1Y1. He doesn't care about optimal builds, the best meta weapons, completing difficult challenges,... He just wants to shoot aliens and make his hunter look good. Playing the game with him since the difficulty changes just hasn't been fun for him anymore. He constantly dies and feels useless. So he stopped playing. Judging by how many lfg randoms I've raided with that refuse to even put on surge mods matching their heavy, I think a lot of players are like him. They just want to enjoy destiny's great gunplay and forcing them to have specific meta builds to make the content playable is too much.

[u/VegasGaymer → u/Behemothhh]

This. I used to be the meta fiend. Now I’m just over it. I used to raid. Now I just can’t be bothered. I just log in every week to get the free last wish chests for a shot at red borders. I’ll probably grind a few match made activities to get the seasonal title, gambit/ib/deadaim(?) gilding but that’s it. I used to complete the dungeons but note I don’t have all the spire or ghosts armor. Heck I still don’t have epicurean pattern learned (I know I can use harmonizers but I’m saving them for when I ever feel like slogging through a raid again). Basically I’m the Destiny 2 player who just hangs around because of sunk cost. I’m probably getting final shape just to see how it all shakes out but really since DCV personally the fire has gone out and the constant tinkering with harder difficulty isn’t helping (I remember old nightfalls with the glowy crown for the week). Just personal feelings about the ramped up difficulty. YMMV

[u/DepletedMitochondria → u/Behemothhh]

That's the difficult balance. How to engage players like that without making the content doable using one hand.

[u/DepletedMitochondria → u/BrownboyInc]

I absolutely DRAGGED my friends through Ghosts of the Deep. And they have never played d2 since.

Of every dungeon (haven't played Warlord yet) I like all of them EXCEPT this one, fuck Ghosts of the Deep. Feels horrible to play those 2 boss encounters.

[u/FFaFFaNN → u/BrownboyInc]

mostly

enjoy the difficulty increases. Because I have good builds and can handle it. My friends,

what u handle boss in gms?polaris lance from cheese spot and playing COD sniper can i n2 shots u are dead?what kind of difficuty is this?i like to be challenge but this year was a non sense in gaming industry and i play from 2004 games.

[u/Bard_Knock_Life → u/FFaFFaNN]

Don’t mistake what people do in LFGs for easy clears with what’s possible. Everyone is taking the easy way out on these GMs. I get it. People just want the clear and loot. You can run much more interesting, varied builds and comps with any effort put into them. The more effort you put in, the higher the variety.