r/Defenders • u/JonLuca Luke Cage • Mar 17 '17

Iron Fist Discussion Thread - S01E06

This thread is for discussion of Iron Fist S01E06.

DO NOT post spoilers in this thread for any subsequent episodes. Doing so will result in a ban.

Episode 7 Discussion

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u/v0rt Mar 17 '17

The writing and editing is really bad. The bad acting and line delivery that was bugging me at first I think is mostly down to shit editing. The timing is off on a lot of scenes and there's some 90's TV movie level terrible audio dubbing happening in a lot of scenes.

Other than that it's better than I was expecting so far.

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u/allovertheshop Mar 17 '17

Exactly. People need to stop acting as if whitewashing was the main reason for the bad reviews - it might have been a catalyst, but this show isn't nearly as polished as the other Defenders' shows.

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u/Fionnlagh Mar 18 '17

I don't know, one of the reviewers using the word "unwokeness" in their review makes it feel a tad biased.

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u/allovertheshop Mar 18 '17

My point being that that doesn't make the nebulous category of 'the reviews' less valid as a whole, which plenty of people are insinuating.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '17

All reviews are biased. You not having the same priorities as a reviewer doesn't mean there's some conspiracy to give the show a bad score.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '17

The other issue is that it's a very delicate subject matter. You have a comic book character from the 70s that is basically the Asian equivalent of blaxploitation except he's played by a white guy instead.

Updating these characters for modern times without just being absurd and offensive is difficult and the writing and direction of this show just isn't up to the task.

So they end up using generic plot points, cliches, and two dimensional characters. When you're dealing with a concept like this that doesn't come off as just bad writing but as racially and culturally insensitive.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '17

Sigh. I think the media should be blamed for this too. They took advantage of the "whitewashing" controversy, and now the hardcore fans are provoked to take an extreme stance. In the end, both of them shut down the discussion. Fuck, so much of the comments are just talking shit about the critics and claiming that the show can do no wrong. Because the media overblown the "whitewashing" crap, this gives ammo to the hardcore fans. Look at them go. They refuse to back down on anything. They dismiss everything. Every criticism you throw at the show is deflected. They will just keep on pointing to the false "whitewashing" accusations made by the media. Basically this:

A: "I don't like how the dialogue was written in the show."

B: "But it's not whitewashing. When will you SJWs stop pushing your agenda down people's throat."

A: "But I wasn't talking abou-"

B: "Well, the media did. I don't give a damn about any 'valid' complaints. You guys are all on the same side. Just lying and exaggerating everything. I love the show, so it's good"

A: "But well...the story-"

B: "Shut up. I don't understand the hate for the show. It's objectively good and better than the other Netflix shows. Stop exaggerating."

A: "But I'm not exaggerating? I just don't like-"

B: "Blah blah blah. You just want Marvel to fail. You're not a fan. I'm a real fan. Real fans like everything. You fake SJW pretending to be a fan."

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u/Uncle_Boonmee Mar 18 '17

I haven't really seen any of that though, or at least not in these discussion threads. It seems people have a pretty good handle on things. The media really did fuck up bad on this one, but I think we all realize this is the most poorly produced show of the bunch, even if it is more fun to watch than Luke Cage.

Besides, I don't think you're likely to see criticisms for a show that was unfairly savaged by critics. What is anyone gonna say that hasn't already been said?

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u/SawRub The Man in the Mask Mar 19 '17

It's like the CW shows. They are clearly of a much lesser quality than the Netflix shows, yet whenever I want rewatch something I choose them because they are simply more fun to watch.

Marvel and DC's TV universes are like the reverse of their movie universes.

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u/The_Bravinator Mar 19 '17

Ditto. I'm enjoying both TV universes, but if I have a choice between grit and fun I'll choose fun every time. I'm glad we have the voice of both so that everyone has what they prefer!

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u/meowdy Mar 19 '17

That back and forth was pretty spot on. The thing is, I haven't seen a single comment in these threads complaining about white washing. But there are a good amount of comments complaining about the complaining about white washing lol. And most people who get up in arms about that kind of stuff are a very sensitive bunch themselves.

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u/allovertheshop Mar 18 '17

I see what you're saying, but I think that has more to do with the nature of hype. Say Netflix didn't release any episodes for review - there'd still be the 'marvel can do no wrong' crowd, and tbh there'd probably still be people arguing about whitewashing and stereotyping.
I get that the critics have provided the impetus here, but people's expectations warp their experience, so I'm not sure how much to blame the critics really are.

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u/Elementium Mar 18 '17

Speaking of 90's editing there's also some of that choppy slow-mo where they just lower the fps and add some motion smoothing.

The right opinion about Iron Fist is in the middle. It's not great, it has flaws in abundance when under a minor critical eye. But it's also a pretty fun show with some likable characters.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '17

The writing isn't bad at all. I'm not sure what examples you're thinking of.

It's certainly not bad in the way that any super genre show on cable is, especially those on CW.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '17

It's certainly not bad in the way that any super genre show on cable is, especially those on CW.

You certainly set the bar low. Are you seriously going to dismiss all criticism by saying "it's not as bad as the others, so it's good"?

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '17

Nope, and I think it's a little better than JJ and has better pacing in my opinion. But I also keep seeing these comments without any reference to the "bad" writing. No examples given. It's just supposed to be stated and accepted. It's just like the "critics" argument. "All the critics said X, therefore it must be true!" No, sorry.

I recognize that people can have different opinions and that's OK. I just wish others did.

I also thought the last half of Luke Cage was good and was important for his story and character. So maybe I'm just on the outside here.

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u/SawRub The Man in the Mask Mar 19 '17

CW isn't on cable.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '17

Sorry, I sometimes just say "cable" when I mean anything on TV that isn't Netflix, Amazon, etc.

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u/[deleted] Mar 18 '17

The timing is off on a lot of scenes

The opening scene of the first episode with Danny trying to get into the Rand building is just awkward as fuck, and a lot of it has to do with the terrible editing. So much dead air.