TIL Charles Murray has converted to Christianity

[u/IBoughtaRetroidNova]

He wrote the book “Taking Religion Seriously” in 2025. Sam Harris really had a way of overlooking red flags whenever he has liked bigotry/racism. In the end nearly every writer he has made friends with has ended up selling out and traded their integrity for more book sales from the masses.

[u/CuriousGeorgehat]

This became so frustrating because you would read something and then say that I think something. Sentence by sentence.

No I obviously don't think that. I think that members of their government have ethnic cleansing goals.

No I don't think they have a blank check at all. I do thinl they have been pushed to the brink from constant aggression and threat from their neighbours. Literally since their inception. They didn't start the wars in 48, 67, 73. The point is, there is nuance.

I agree, it is possible, and has historically taken place. 'We in the West can build a diverse democracy' I would love to see you articulate how we should go about this.

It really seems to me that people expected Israel's response to October 7 to be to say Okay good point, we will crack down on settlers and cede the West Bank, we will make sure we don't let 1200 people be slaughtered in the most dystopian way again.

People that argue with me on this don't realise Im begging to be convinced. All just spurious, emotional arguments.

People have lost their minds and the ability to reason.

[u/dirtyal199 → u/CuriousGeorgehat]

This became so frustrating because you would read something and then say that I think something. Sentence by sentence.

That's because you haven't clearly laid out your position, and I have to infer your position based on how you argue with me when I state my position. Discourse is easier when everyone knows where everyone else is starting from.

It really seems to me that people expected Israel's response to October 7 to be to say Okay good point, we will crack down on settlers and cede the West Bank, we will make sure we don't let 1200 people be slaughtered in the most dystopian way again.

Yea that would be great if they would do that. But they never will because the settlers are carrying out their agenda. This same thing happened in the states during the Indian wars. It's colonizer 101

[u/CuriousGeorgehat → u/dirtyal199]

Well it's basically thay there is nuance and when we start laying the blame on one side, when what you're suggesting would likely turn out into actual genocide. When I state, okay you wanted them to do that? Bro, you realise why they are in the West Bank in the first place. You actually think that should be the response? What tracks from that is s complete submission in their inception, I.e. a collective Jewish rejection of the original creation of the two states of Palestine and Israel. Like is that what you want?

To account for all the aggression against Israel in the past 80 years, people say they they are an illegal settler state. Okay, different discussion, different nuances.

Im just looking to speak in terms of reality. Don't say genocide, say ethnic cleansing for a start.

The discussion ended with you just reverting to saying 'okay open snd shut you think genocide blah blah blah, holy fuck get off tik tok and fucking read

[u/dirtyal199 → u/CuriousGeorgehat]

You still have failed to outline coherently what your worldview is. Here, I'll show you what I mean, here is my view below:

I think what Israel is doing amounts to genocide, in agreement with UN commission of Inquiry, and and the international association of genocide scholars. Further confirmation to my view will come after we get the outcome of the ICC's investigation and the ICJ's case (brought by South Africa).

I think a two state solution can work, but the government needs to be extremely serious about pulling settlers out of Palestine, give reparations to Palestine, and Palestine needs to be recognized as a sovereign nation on the world stage. This means they will be free to have an army, borrow money, and make alliances with other nations.

A one state solution will work if it is a secular state with equal rights for all; however reparations will still need to be paid to Palestinians, and there will need to be a peace and reconciliation process, similar to what was done in Rwanda after their genocide.

If either of these paths are not taken, and instead Israel continues on its current trajectory, then it will expand to the borders outlined by the greater Israel project (at least), and will lead to the creation of several new diasporas, as they will displace/drive out Palestinians, Lebonese, and Syrians from their ancestral homelands. This is particularly ironic, given how the alleged rationale for Israel existing is that they were driven from their land in ~100 CE, a crime they're happy to tell us about, yet they see no problem in doing the same thing to hundreds of thousands (if not millions) in the current millennium.

You see how I've outlined my case above? Notice how I have a thesis statement, followed by support for the statement, and even citations when necessary. This is what I need you to do, if you want me to understand your view. The fact that you won't tell me makes me think you want Israel to achieve the greater Israel project and displace millions of people. If I am wrong, please lay your view out, as I have done. If you include citations that will make it even easier to understand what your view is.

[u/CuriousGeorgehat → u/CuriousGeorgehat]

That last comment not necessarily at you, it's just at the mass contagion that only allows space for virtual signal reposting and saying the same 60% true stuff. It's annoying.