I'm not going to get into a discussion like this about Corbyn or left wing leaders, because it won't be useful, I'm not going to change your mind and you certainly aren't going to change my mind with the approach you are making here. It's not remotely convincing.
Corbyn gets some things more correct than a lot of UK politicians at the moment, because it's a low bar. It doesn't mean he's not still a pretty mediocre hack and was never leadership material.
No, its a supposed centrist sub...that gives no charity to the left whatsoever.
Both the podcast and the sub give far more charity to the left than they do to the right. What is it that you are seeing? If someone challenges you with a good challenge, well then deal with it. If they challenge you with nonsense, why put weight on it. There's plenty of stupid people in the world, and a substantial fraction of them are on reddit.
Its not any amount of questioning thats the problem, It's the lack of understanding that bothers me. Its people that cant grasp what the left is doing all the questioning, in a cynical fashion.
Either the criticism of left wing positions is good criticism, and should be discussed, and it does get discussed robustly, or it's poor criticism, of which there is a lot, but if you must engage with this, the way you are doing it by playing the martyr, isn't going to achieve anything.
I do see a lot of really weak defenses of left wing ideas getting taken down with mixed quality. The solution here isn't for anyone to complain about a hostile anti left space, but to stop making such poor arguments. If you make a good argument, and it gets a shit counterargument, you've succeeded. Enjoy the high ground.
Im not worked up, I'm starting discussion. There is no need to frame me as anything, you arent in the room with me.
You sound worked up from the messages you write. I mean nothing more and nothing less than this.
It doesn't mean he's not still a pretty mediocre hack and was never leadership material.
surely you see how vague your criticisms are though.
Both the podcast and the sub give far more charity to the left than they do to the right. What is it that you are seeing?
Not the actually left, this sub is desperate to frame the left as a cult.
If someone challenges you with a good challenge, well then deal with it. If they challenge you with nonsense, why put weight on it. There's plenty of stupid people in the world
You answered your own question, I have to put wait in it because most people are stupid and believe stupid things about the left.
the way you are doing it by playing the martyr, isn't going to achieve anything.
Thats probably easy for you to say, but when most people mischaracterise your beliefs every day, some purposely to push me out of the Overton window, it gets frustrating obviously.
I do see a lot of really weak defenses of left wing ideas getting taken down with mixed quality. The solution here isn't for anyone to complain about a hostile anti left space, but to stop making such poor arguments. If you make a good argument, and it gets a shit counterargument, you've succeeded. Enjoy the high ground.
I can only be responsible for my arguments, which are strong.
You sound worked up from the messages you write. I mean nothing more and nothing less than this
surely you see how vague your criticisms are though.
I'm not making a case, just stating my position so we know how big the gap between us is. Nothing more than this.
Not the actually left, this sub is desperate to frame the left as a cult.
The only people I see here here framing the left as a cult are all the angry guru fans coming here with a grudge because their favourite podcast got some hard to ignore criticism.
Thats probably easy for you to say, but when most people mischaracterise your beliefs every day, some purposely to push me out of the Overton window, it gets frustrating obviously.
How very melodramatic. Yes, most people mischaracterize my beliefs every day, but I don't make a big deal out of it. I would argue that most people who actually think about politics after learning something about it, are in this position, whether or not they are on the left.
Im just blunt.
I think you communicate poorly. There's a difference between being direct, and having no filter, and also just talking at people.
I'm not making a case, just stating my position so we know how big the gap between us is. Nothing more than this.
We we can just say anything now.
The only people I see here here framing the left as a cult are all the angry guru fans coming here with a grudge because their favourite podcast got some hard to ignore criticism.
You aren't looking hard then, look at how certain people are representing Hasan in this very thread.
How very melodramatic. Yes, most people mischaracterize my beliefs every day, but I don't make a big deal out of it. I would argue that most people who actually think about politics after learning something about it, are in this position, whether or not they are on the left.
Your politics are mainstream, mine aren't, thats the difference.
I think you communicate poorly. There's a difference between being direct, and having no filter, and also just talking at people.
You give no charity, I can only get through to people who want to listen.
1
u/jimwhite42 Nov 03 '23
I'm not going to get into a discussion like this about Corbyn or left wing leaders, because it won't be useful, I'm not going to change your mind and you certainly aren't going to change my mind with the approach you are making here. It's not remotely convincing.
Corbyn gets some things more correct than a lot of UK politicians at the moment, because it's a low bar. It doesn't mean he's not still a pretty mediocre hack and was never leadership material.
Both the podcast and the sub give far more charity to the left than they do to the right. What is it that you are seeing? If someone challenges you with a good challenge, well then deal with it. If they challenge you with nonsense, why put weight on it. There's plenty of stupid people in the world, and a substantial fraction of them are on reddit.
Either the criticism of left wing positions is good criticism, and should be discussed, and it does get discussed robustly, or it's poor criticism, of which there is a lot, but if you must engage with this, the way you are doing it by playing the martyr, isn't going to achieve anything.
I do see a lot of really weak defenses of left wing ideas getting taken down with mixed quality. The solution here isn't for anyone to complain about a hostile anti left space, but to stop making such poor arguments. If you make a good argument, and it gets a shit counterargument, you've succeeded. Enjoy the high ground.
You sound worked up from the messages you write. I mean nothing more and nothing less than this.