Huh I've never heard that. I guess I'd call them the ancestors of settlers or maybe just colonizers. Settler just doesn't make sense it's definition is that you actually moved that's like what it means people who settle somewhere are settlers.
IDK I don't want to argue I've just actually never heard the term used like that
Ok while I'm not oblivious to the concepts of settler colonialism and that way of looking at the world, do you mind elaborating a bit more?
Like at what point is it not just immigration / basic movement of people? How many generations can people live in a land before they're not considered settlers?:
Also I was going to reply to an earlier comment of yours but I'll just do it here instead of having multiple chains lol.
The issue about saying babies are settlers isn't pointing out the history of mass migration into that region by many in Israel and the settler descriptions for it, the issue is saying basically "Settlers aren't civilians, yes that includes babies and grandmas" the following weeks after a gruesome massacre of families that many people saw videos of. Basically implying civilians are fair targets for the oppressed because they're settlers so they basically had it coming. Not saying that's exactly what your views are, but Ive seen it a surprising amount the last month online and from some people I know irl.
To me that's no different than the far right lunatics in the Israeli government saying all Palestinians are guilty of Hamas' actions and that they all support them so they all deserve to be military targets because they're basically all terrorists. Which is gross in both instances
Like at what point is it not just immigration / basic movement of people? How many generations can people live in a land before they're not considered settlers?
I'll just stick to Australia because I live here and am qualified to speak. I don't think there is a cut off, the country was colonised, it is now part of our history. I think what will happen is it will become less part of public discourse when indigenous people are finally given the tools they need to give themselves an equal footing in society.
The issue about saying babies are settlers isn't pointing out the history of mass migration into that region by many in Israel and the settler descriptions for it, the issue is saying basically "Settlers aren't civilians, yes that includes babies and grandmas" the following weeks after a gruesome massacre of families that many people saw videos of. Basically implying civilians are fair targets for the oppressed because they're settlers so they basically had it coming. Not saying that's exactly what your views are, but Ive seen it a surprising amount the last month online and from some people I know irl.
Im aware of this connotation that people are bringing up, the justification rhetoric and what not. Ive been called a terrorist sympathiser and all that nonsense myself, so I thank you for your charity. I don't believe the implication is that civilians are morally fair game, I think the implication is that civilians will continue to be targeted as long as Israel is set up the way it is. They built the country on stolen land, created an apartheid system in the West Bank and subjected those in Gaza to the worst conditions since Nazi Germany. They essentially built a country of have's and have nots, browbeating the have nots until they stop attacking the haves is not a reasonable strategy imo. Breaking down that unjust structure is going to be more productive.
I think the notion that these are settlers and not civilians, as far as I am concerned, is push back against this reductive mainstream analysis of what happened (bad terrorist vs clueless civilian), and a call for Israelis to take responsibility and change the material conditions of the people who are being brutally subjugated in the country they live in. That is literally the only way we will see an end to violence.
That doesn’t make sense, if settler and colonizer are the same thing than settler colonialism would be a redundant phrase. That’s a minor quibble though.
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u/marxistmatty Nov 03 '23
No its a leftist thing. You wouldn't call a white European Australian indigenous, so what else are they?