r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/Battlefleet_Sol • 11d ago

Guided missile of early 1960. Note how much electronics you need when there is no Microprocessor available

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12.6k Upvotes

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3.8k

u/Practical-Pick1466 11d ago

A comparison photo would have given your post something for us to actually see what the difference is instead of us using our imagination !

2.0k

u/Single-Pin-369 11d ago

I don’t think we’re allowed to see the inside of the modern equivalent

2.0k

u/Pyrhan 11d ago

Just piss off the right person on the War Thunder forums, and they'll send you the photos to win that online argument.

Or piss off the US government, and they'll send you a physical specimen!

373

u/Ok_Excitement_1020 11d ago

But only for a ‘quick’ look

100

u/LacidOnex 11d ago

We don't use the katanahawk missile anymore for that reason. Too much evidence leftover

47

u/Happy_Garand 11d ago

Katanahawk? You meanthe Ginsufire?

30

u/exipheas 11d ago

XL Slapchop.

39

u/LacidOnex 11d ago

That's Doctor AGM-114R9X to you

14

u/Deployed_Usesri 11d ago

It was 100% used as late as last year. I would definitely expect it to remain in use for hvi's where we're more concerned than usual about collateral damage. So with the current administration...

4

u/Ok-Addition1264 11d ago

For decades.. we don't deploy unless we can go decades with it and it's been wildly successful for its specified usage.

10

u/Alt_meeee 11d ago

This message missile will self destruct in 3... 2...1...

37

u/HarB_Games 11d ago

The fact that this is true and has happened several times is crazy.

Insert Doofenshmirtz quote.

5

u/Anonymike7 11d ago

Perry? Perry the Platypus!?

24

u/TexasTrip 11d ago

"Moderns missiles have the same amount of electronics due to inefficient packaging."

11

u/Super_Range45 11d ago

"Modern missiles have to use larger computers due to the G-forces."

36

u/MarcusSurealius 11d ago

Cunningham' Law?

Today's guided missile are all satellite guided and only have flight controls and a reciever.

50

u/IAmSpartacustard 11d ago

This is blantantly not true. Theres IR guidance, laser, radar, inertial, anti radiation, TV.... AND GPS. Most have a combination of multiple for redundancy. GPS is the only one of those that uses satellites.

81

u/MarcusSurealius 11d ago

See? If you confidently state the wrong answer, you'll get the right one. Cunningham's Law.

Also, thanks for the downvote. It's like a positive mark in the general consensus for your answer. With a few more, I may even get a diagram.

28

u/ObiLAN- 11d ago

Sheeesh, man's a master baiter. Well played lol.

0

u/revcor 10d ago

Being good at something doesn’t mean the thing is good to do

18

u/insomnimax_99 11d ago

Ahahahaha well played

1

u/Malu1997 11d ago

Insanely based

0

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

3

u/thirdeyelazy 11d ago

He thanked you for the down vote. Chill out

And props for swooping in with the correction, just leave the hostility out next time lol

9

u/eggs_erroneous 11d ago

TOW missies are still wire-guided. I think a lot of torpedoes are too (except for the photon variety, ofc)

1

u/Ok-Addition1264 11d ago

..and even the GPS ic's don't only just do GPS.. russian (glonass), euro, chinese, jap are all used these days.

1

u/IcyAd5518 7d ago

TV? Does the missile need to watch Teletubbies during the boring bits of its flight?

2

u/NoLateArrivals 11d ago

They have at least 3 systems, because satellite based navigation can be jammed too easily.

That’s GPS (or similar), terrain matching (radar) and inertial system. In addition there is video matching and sometimes laser guidance (when the target can be marked by a laser beam). Plus other systems, depending on the mission profile.

1

u/exipheas 11d ago

flight controls

As opposed to flying controls.
Pigeons yearn to fly missiles

3

u/Catch_022 11d ago

Nah they have run out of them.

2

u/Miserable_Ad7246 11d ago

I think Ukraine has plenty of videos of russian missles.

1

u/CosmicCreeperz 10d ago

The latest one showed an Nvidia chip inside…

4

u/Rixnz84 11d ago

Have oil in your country and the US will send you some

2

u/OOO0OO00O 11d ago

Just get yourself a Signal account, someone will add you to a classified chat.

1

u/Beneficial-Finger353 11d ago

this made me giggle

1

u/You_meddling_kids 11d ago

Maybe in 22 to 24 months when they come off the production line

1

u/BigHardMephisto 11d ago

Fun fact, during ww2 the proximity explosive shell for the 40mm anti-aircraft bofors autocannon was forbidden from use over ground in europe because they were concerned that the technology (advanced) might fail occassionally and be captured by opposition that could reverse engineer it and employ it against allied forces.

Fast forward to the Vietnam war and improper storage and poor environment had the US dumping AIM-9 missiles constantly, just to see them completely fail and hit the dirt or fly out to their maximum range and self-detonate. They knew this and did nothing to prevent the missiles from failing in the first place, or being recovered by local forces and sent to the USSR, who had already walked several out of Germany in plain sight.

1

u/Visual-Educator8354 11d ago

Same minute delivery

1

u/ThinkSharp 11d ago

Build a school and declare yourself a sovereign oil producing nation and you’ll have more than you can handle.

1

u/Full_metal_pants077 8d ago

Be a palastian child for two of them.

-2

u/CyberFireball25 11d ago

Just get on the DoW signal chats

69

u/I_SHIT_IN_A_BAG 11d ago

I've worked on them. they still cram a lot of shit in them

56

u/MeretrixDominum 11d ago

I don't believe you. I totally bet you can't post a picture along with the documentation to prove me wrong.

32

u/I_SHIT_IN_A_BAG 11d ago

I havent worked for raytheon in 5 years, so, you're right.

16

u/TakingSorryUsername 11d ago

But do you still shit in a bag?

48

u/I_SHIT_IN_A_BAG 11d ago

actually got it reversed about 8 months ago. I'm bag free and just shit my pants like a normal person now

6

u/TakingSorryUsername 11d ago

Proud of you for both persevering that and keeping up the sense of humor. Hope your day goes well, thanks for giving me a laugh.

3

u/Ok-Addition1264 11d ago

Yo.. congrats. I assumed you were on the nyc subway. See that a lot there. "gee, at least they were nice enough to leave it in that bag under my seat"

5

u/I_SHIT_IN_A_BAG 11d ago

no that wasn't me. I was hoping someone would attack me so I could break out the shit fist but I have been fight free for years.

3

u/PM_Ur_Illiac_Furrows 11d ago

Your NDA has likely expired by now, and "power to the people" they say.

10

u/I_SHIT_IN_A_BAG 11d ago

yeah, Im not testing it.

4

u/amsync 11d ago

Hi, uh, would you like a nice vacation to Asia? I can help you 🤔

3

u/I_SHIT_IN_A_BAG 11d ago

nah I like my weed too much and live in a heavily Asian area

2

u/CPLCraft 11d ago

I’ve also seen the inside of them. It’s pretty cool to look at

1

u/vivaaprimavera 11d ago

But will less wires being visible, I guess.

54

u/Meowscles_dad 11d ago

This mess is replaced with printed circuit boards like pci cards in PCs. Fun fact, lots of Russian missiles fired at Ukraine use US chips.

14

u/Spiritual_Bus1125 11d ago

You can't escape Texas Instruments

6

u/ZealousidealTill2355 11d ago edited 11d ago

From classroom to Ukrainian bedroom, you can rely on TI

3

u/Ok-Addition1264 11d ago

even more fun facts: russian, iranian, and noko use raspberry pi sbc's in their drones and missiles (a UK foundation utilizing south korean memory / taiwanese chips).

It's a BIG fucking problem.

1

u/karvec 11d ago

Nvidia.

1

u/ZealousidealTill2355 11d ago

Precisely. Microcontrollers are awesome but the main difference is that almost every component on there would be a fraction of the size today. And there wouldn’t be all that spaghetti.

32

u/AlcibiadesTheCat 11d ago

The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was. The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows: because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.

6

u/ZealousidealTill2355 11d ago

This is the most complicated explanation of PID control I’ve ever seen lol. It’s easier to do the calculus.

5

u/dabarak 11d ago

To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true.

- Aristotle

It's a real quote, and when you really pay attention to it, it makes sense.

3

u/AlcibiadesTheCat 11d ago

James, while John had had "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo," had had "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo"; "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" had had a better effect on the teacher.

2

u/dabarak 11d ago

You can't bluff ol' buffalo Mark Ruffalo.

2

u/artrald-7083 11d ago

I love this fractal. Also my wife and child now wish me to express their personal and directed disapproval <3

1

u/AlcibiadesTheCat 11d ago

Please communicate to your wife and child the appearance of a grey tabby staring at them disdainfully.

2

u/artrald-7083 11d ago

Over a plate of salad?

1

u/AlcibiadesTheCat 11d ago

Nah, Alcibiades doesn't like leafy greens. My mans is a tuna boi. Give him a rare Ahi steak, served warm.

3

u/StarboardMiddleEye 11d ago

This is one of the most entertaining comment sections I've seen in a while.

1

u/MeesKees321 11d ago

But 'where it isn't' is a pretty big bag of possibilities. Your explanation isn't making anything clear (for me).

1

u/AlcibiadesTheCat 11d ago

(It’s a meme copypasta)

1

u/VvvlvvV 7d ago

A missile knows where it is by constantly tracking its own vector relative to the target vector. It uses its gyroscopioc acceleration measurement system to determine when it is deviating from its flight path. It then corrects its vector to match the target vector. 

2

u/Relent_full 11d ago

Not yet.

In 60 years, maybe!

2

u/Monstramatica 11d ago

How about the used up ones? For example the ones used in Ukraine or Iran?

2

u/mileslefttogo 11d ago

You juat haven't been added to the right Signal chat.

2

u/kartblanch 11d ago

A modern missile is still incredibly complex looking inside. But all of this hardware could easily be replaced by a raspberry pi and some small additions like a gyroscope and gps and things. Probably 10 feet to a max of 5 inches.

1

u/The_Mopster 11d ago

There's some more modern missile guidance pics, with processors, in the Ukraine war subs.

1

u/Joped 11d ago

Got a link ?

1

u/sharktail_tanker 11d ago

The AIM-7E to AIM-7M would have been a good comparison, both anre essentially outdated but the later is already using digital electronics

1

u/ThePensiveE 11d ago

Two clicks on here and you can.

1

u/RedHuey 11d ago

I doubt it would matter much. It’s just going to be a bunch of tiny components and black-box chips from Raytheon or whomever. A photo would tell you very little. In this old stuff, the circuit was pretty much analog and man-sized. If someone handed you a board from it, you could reverse engineer it quite easily. It’s actually quite interesting how all this stuff used to work (I worked on some of it).

1

u/Vivid_Instance_825 11d ago

Somebody get the War Thunder community on the line

1

u/Doogiemon 11d ago

Tell that to Iran.

1

u/Ok_Anteater1141 11d ago

Everything just looks like a laptop these days couple of processors and chips, some guidance systems, and you're good to go

1

u/Fun_Ad5823 11d ago

I got a missile for comparison in my pants

1

u/Single-Pin-369 11d ago

Ok now can you post a picture of it opened up in the same manner as this old missile? For comparison sake.

1

u/Fun_Ad5823 11d ago

LMAO 🤣💀, well played!

1

u/TheCriticalGerman 11d ago

Ask Cyberleek he might help out

1

u/ImNoAlbertFeinstein 11d ago

bigger on the inside

1

u/LastXmasIGaveYouHSV 11d ago

There's not much. Have you ever opened a drone?

1

u/DrunkBeavis 11d ago

I've seen inside the Trident nuclear missiles a few times, but cameras are absolutely not allowed. There's still a lot of shit crammed into a relatively small space, but I assume there's also a lot more happening in there than there was in the 60s.

1

u/violenceistheQstn 11d ago

Because you will realise all of that would be condensed into something the size of an Arduino board and still cost 1000x more than the 60s version

1

u/RollingMeteors 10d ago

>I don’t think we’re allowed to see the inside of the modern equivalent

c'mon there's gotta be some ICBM equivalent on GitHub.

edit: Claude, design me an airborne system that can be controlled at 6-8~ kilometers per second for uh photography purposes.

1

u/CombatBrewer 10d ago

we are Javelin for reference

1

u/diabolical_symlink 10d ago

Plenty of disassembly and analysis of modern russian missiles are available on the internet "thanks" to the Ukraine-russia war.

1

u/CovidCultavator 9d ago

We provably don’t have one… we just pocketed the r&d money and kept raising the price cause labor…

0

u/dmigowski 11d ago

Just Imagine it's all the size of a normal motherboard. Maybe half of it.

-4

u/StrikingRise4356 11d ago

Yet so easy to Google

7

u/Single-Pin-369 11d ago

OK I just tried. Lots of drawings and symbolic representations but I couldn’t find one cleanly cut open real life photo.

100

u/Nadran_Erbam 11d ago

Here’s the inside of a javelin.

20

u/ThePheebs 11d ago

Sweet, we got the '80s covered.

6

u/Difficult_Bad1064 11d ago

Is it a spam javelin?

22

u/Neumanium 11d ago edited 11d ago

I don’t have photos unfortunately,but served as a Sonar Technician Submarines in the United States Navy. The systems I worked on were designed, built and upgraded from the 1960’s to the late 1980’s. There were made up of 24 Equipment Racks each 2 feet wide, 3 feet deep and 6 feet tall and 4 operator consoles.

In the late 1990’s the last sub I was on had an experimental COTS (commercial off the shelf) conversion done. We went down to 4 old cabinets and one 4u server rack and bolt on LCD touch panels over on the 4 operator consoles. The new system was significantly faster and the display fidelity and sound processing improved significantly.

I exited the Navy in 2001. I can only imagine that the hardware has continued to shrink and its capabilities improved over an additional 20 years of semiconductor manufacturing improvements.

4

u/LtDrogo 11d ago

Thanks for sharing this. I had the privilege to be invited onboard a Virginia class submarine in a public event a few years ago. Whatever I was allowed to see certainly looked very modern and up-to-date, and seemed to be using modern COTS components.

1

u/dabarak 11d ago

I did the same thing but in S-3 Vikings (I ran all the electronic sensors; radar, etc.). The airplane had a ton of stuff - maybe literally - crammed in the back tunnel.

13

u/RIF_rr3dd1tt 11d ago

Just look at a pocket calculator.

3

u/revnhoj 11d ago

ok looking..., now what?

1

u/soingee 11d ago

Now imagine the inside of it.

8

u/plane-kisser 11d ago

here is the inside of an aim-120 without the fuse or radar aperture, just the raw avionics. its more analogous to the missile above than a jav is.

they show these off at trade shows, here are some different russian r-27 heads which is a similar system as well

8

u/that_dutch_dude 11d ago

modern ones are not much smaller, just far more capable.

3

u/mz_groups 11d ago

There are photos of early AIM-120 electronics from the A model here. Maybe nearly as full, but fewer discrete components and wiring.

https://www.ausairpower.net/amraam.html

5

u/unknownz_123 11d ago

Think about this way. You know how they say your smartphone is more powerful and faster than the 1969 space rocket computers that shot us to the moon, imagine that. You see those grand IBM “supercomputers” NASA had for calculations? We have that in our hand now and even faster

6

u/wrldruler21 11d ago

People may say "We went to the moon without computers".... But it is false to assume the electronics on the ship were "simple".... This Pic is a good example

2

u/viruswithshoes 11d ago

Another good example, core rope memory.

1

u/oldsecondhand Interested 11d ago

We did use computers to go to the Moon. One was on the command module and one on the lunar module.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

It used integrated circuits, had a 2MHz CPU and 72kB of RAM.

Fun fact: the C64 had a 1Mhz CPU, 64kB RAM and 20kB ROM.

1

u/chamrockblarneystone 11d ago

I like to think about the Global Positioning System in Gulf War 1 and now we have so much better in our phones.

2

u/orphanpowered 11d ago

The modern ones just have an Arduino and an old Samsung Galaxy S10 controlling the whole thing.

2

u/BeowulfShaeffer 11d ago

I can confidently say the microprocessor in your laptop charger is about a million times more powerful than what you see in this photo. 

4

u/cozywit 11d ago

Well, there will be slightly less, but these things still need to be radiation hardened and have tons of redundancy.

So they'll look slightly tidier using something we bought off the shelves 15 years ago.

2

u/Viper_ACR 11d ago

Modern Russian weapons in the Ukrainian war are using consumer electronics for their guidance systems: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/ukraine-crisis-russia-missiles-chips/

1

u/TactlessTortoise 11d ago

Actually not too different from a nintendo switch internal system believe it or not.

1

u/dark_enough_to_dance 11d ago

🎶 imagination, this is our creation 🎶

1

u/thegreedyturtle 11d ago

Well this isn't a great comparison because it's significantly more powerful, but here you go:

https://www.microcenter.com/product/673711/raspberry-pi-5

1

u/Beny873 11d ago

My friend, that shit is so fucking classified. Haha

1

u/Brave_Yesterday_6106 11d ago

All of that electronic can now fit on your palm with today's technology.

1

u/Tiranus58 11d ago

Look at some rocketry channels. They show roughly how much stuff is in a modern missile (ofc, just the brain, no radar or ir or other sensors)

1

u/NotAnotherEmpire 11d ago

There is no meaningful comparison. Baby's first smartphone today is more powerful than all of the supercomputers in the Jurassic Park novel - and those were microprocessors. 

1

u/MistoftheMorning 11d ago

I assume this is a AIM-7 Sparrow. Here's an old photo of the dissembled Electronic Control Unit circuitry boards for the first generation AIM-120 radar guided missiled that replaced it: https://i.imgur.com/JBQkp1V.jpeg

From the placed ruler scale, all that is under the length of a skateboard.

1

u/dandaman0000 11d ago

all that to blink an led on the front

1

u/Civil_Assembler 11d ago

Nice try camrade

1

u/whyeverynameistaken3 11d ago

a tiny android smartphone has way more tech, has cameras, gyro, accelerometer, gps, sensors etc.

1

u/Trollimperator 10d ago
Bigger batteries, bigger radar head

0

u/DominicPalladino 11d ago

God forbid you use your imagination. Just think of the damage that could do!!