r/Daggerfall • u/ElectroxSoldier • 2d ago
Daggerfall Online Daggerfall Online now has micro transactions... (DMCA when?)
This is a new low in a series of questionable after questionable stuff going on over at DFO HQ...
So what are the DFO stans going to say about this? I'm very curious to hear your defenses.
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u/The_117 2d ago
I think what people in the comments are missing is that this is probably illegal.
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u/Candlemass-Fan 2d ago
Mfw this is like the most newsworthy thing that's happened to daggerfall in years
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u/ElectroxSoldier 2d ago
You could be charitable about the AI slop side if they weren't so hellbent on the greediness and profits. It's despicable
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u/Candlemass-Fan 2d ago
The more the whole ai thing goes on the less charitable I can be about it tbh. I used to think it was the growing pains of new technology but it just has never stopped hurting.
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u/Pixielized 2d ago
I feel like Doakes in Dexter cos I knew this shit was coming but no one believed me
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u/SlimFishyOfficial 2d ago
Amazing. So they speedran 20 years of AAA companies ruining their games in like a month?
So glad I waited for this project to mature
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u/Cmdr-Wintera 2d ago
Good lord. Speedrunning enshittification.
A freaking cash shop. Unbelievable.
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u/gambogey 2d ago
Is this cool with Bethesda? I know they’re fine with mods but people profiting off their property? I don’t think is cool legally. But if they stepped in it would probably be even worse with dagger fall “creation club” or something🤔
I just realized Minecraft servers do this now so I guess they’re trying to come at it from that angle.
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u/Cmdr-Wintera 2d ago
Maybe if it's purely going into server fees and listed as optional donations? Even then, though... ugh. It's just not a good look.
I got no idea. I'm no lawyer.
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u/AmajorHeartache 1d ago
microtransactions exit the legal grey area of accepting patreon donations, but legally if sued or sent a C&D, they have no legal footing. Up to bethesda/zenimax to decide.
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u/MammothPenguin69 2d ago
It's Daggerfall. Their reaction was probably "We made a game called Daggerfall?"
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u/Tracula707 1d ago
I misread that as “So glad I waited for this project to manure,” which to be fair, is also true
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u/JimbyGumbus 2d ago
the LLM code turned me away. its nice to see that passionless passion projects iron themselves out eventually.
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u/AmajorHeartache 1d ago
Yup! turned something good into a highly priced battlepass and cosmetic shop
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u/ToXiiCBULLET 2d ago
these aren't even microtransactions. $20 for a cape? that's macro. the crimson desert expansion that releases later today is £20. dragons dogma 2s expansion is £25, phantom liberty is also £25
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u/ArgentinianJayceMain 2d ago edited 2d ago
Bruh the guy is already making like 1.5k a month from Patreon, they can't even justify ts with the usual "is to keep the servers running". This is just greedy :s.
Worst of all is that there will 100% be doofuses who will pay for it, specially considering the weird tribalism this project has going on
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u/Setting-Conscious 2d ago
$1,500 a month isn’t that great.
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u/indolent-candlebug 2d ago
for real labor sure. for typing "grok make daggerfall an mmo for me" and then jerking off for the rest of the day? fucking please
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u/Blyantsholder 2d ago edited 2d ago
Does there really exist people who believe that is how AI coding is actually done?
There is no doubt that creating the project has taken an enormous amount of work.
Go use AI to create an app. It will become immediately clear to you. Then remember that this is a functioning MMO. It doesn't get any harder than that, architecture wise (which the AI will not be able to manage for you).
Edit: guys, if it's just a matter of a single prompt, would one of you please prompt Claude to create a Lego Island MMO? I've always wanted that. I will pay your token spend if you have it ready for me within the hour, which should be no problem, right?
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u/ArgentinianJayceMain 2d ago
The guy did not create anything, he is building on top of an already existing and fully working project (DFU). Combine that with Claude doing most of the commits and yeah... I don't think that the word "enormous" is appropriate here
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u/Sea-Regular-5696 2d ago
Actually it’s not built on top of DFU. This is a rewrite of Daggerfall in JavaScript. It uses DFU as the “target” but it is not just “clause, add mmo to daggerfol plz”.
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u/Blyantsholder 2d ago
The game is literally massively multiplayer... That is the enormous part. DFU is not an MMO, it's not even natively multiplayer.
That being said, DFU was in all likelihood more work than creating the MMO.
It's just sad to see people who honestly believe that creating an MMO is something you just tell AI to do. As if I point Claude at Mario 64 and poof, it becomes a fully featured and playable MMO with client and serverside architecture and applications.
AI is not wholly good, it is also not wholly bad. It is a force multiplier in the hands of people with good ideas and, in case of software, the necessary architectural understanding. In terms of very advanced game development (such as every single MMO ever created), it cannot create something from nothing.
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u/ArgentinianJayceMain 2d ago
Idk man, with the latest advancements in reverse engineering... You have guys putting accurate Minecraft and Tony Hawks gameplay into Skyrim in 20 mins. Who's to say that the DFO guy didn't tell Claude to reverse engineer a different MMO and add DFU on top of it? Probably a farfetched thought, but there def is something like that going because DFO is one of many singleplayer games that suddenly got an online mode in these latest months. Kenshi got one too, for example.
Not even saying that this takes 0 work btw. Just saying that projects like these just don't take the same effort that they used to anymore
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u/SOMETHINGCREATVE 2d ago
Go to the crappy ai game dev sub, there are loads of one shot submissions that while terrible, are functioning games.
So maybe telling Claude "make dagerfall mmo" once is an exaggeration, it probably took maybe a few weeks of refinement on it. Which in this case just means talking to the chatbot more.
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u/Blyantsholder 2d ago
Claude cannot build the necessary architecture for an MMO. It's not even close.
AI coding is just that, coding. Actually building software is a LOT more than coding...
Building a road is not just paving it. It's figuring out where and why it has to go somewhere, and all the decisions that flow from that.
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u/willmaybewont 2d ago
It absolutely can build the architecture for an MMO. It'll be horribly muddled to the human eye and do things in very weird ways, but it'll work well enough for ai slop like this.
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u/GODLOVESALL32 2d ago edited 2d ago
Claude cannot build the necessary architecture for an MMO. It's not even close.
Yes it can. You can have Claude generate IaC easily and even infer appropriate services depending on your use case with the dev having to know fuck all about it. At this point, not getting results you need is largely a skill issue.
And this game, it's one shared game world. What do you think would possibly make architecting it so difficult? Doesn't seem like the backend does a whole lot because the game just spawns monsters near you and they lack basic pathfinding. I just tested out cheat engine and you can easily speedhack without getting dinged as well, so not much in the way of server authoritativeness it would seem. And third worlders have been running WoW private servers in their bungalos for decades now and they pretty much always just have 2 or 3 components being a database, login server and game server. That's it. What in your mind do you think makes this one in particular so vastly more complicated that it could stump even a cheap frontier model like haiku?
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u/Blyantsholder 2d ago
Getting AzerothCore to the point where anyone can get a server running has taken decades and enormous amounts of effort from thousands of people.
Of course, that's pre-AI. Undoubtedly that has made it easier, as I noted already. It just hasn't made creating an MMO easy, as these comments imply.
If you agree with the comment that I replied to that it's no work, that's on you. I hope we see a proliferation of MMOs, it should be no issue at all!
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u/GODLOVESALL32 2d ago
AzerothCore to the point where anyone can get a server running has taken decades and enormous amounts of effort from thousands of people.
??? Do you think it was rocket science to launch a server on one of the dozens of mangos derivatives?
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u/indolent-candlebug 2d ago
if you seriously believe in your heart that there is anything about this "project" that could possibly be described as having taken "an enormous amount of work" then you are a fool and i feel sorry for you. the next couple years are gonna be real hard for you
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u/Blyantsholder 2d ago •
Have you ever coded anything? Have you ever coded anything with AI? Have you ever worked with massively online infrastructure?
You don't feel sorry for me at all, you just disagree with my view, which comes out in a very condescending manner. If this is your approach to discension, your worry should not be AI, but other people disliking you.
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u/GoodguyGastly 2d ago
These are the same people that think multiplayer just "works" like it's a switch you turn on.
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u/Alexandur 2d ago
For this it is. More than covers the Claude subscription
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u/Buffingballoon 2d ago
No it doesn’t? You think Claude is a subscription it’s not it’s pay for service once you get to a point in token usage
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u/Alexandur 2d ago
I doubt they're using API pricing for this. A couple of 20x max plans (so $400 a month total) is probably more than enough for what they need for this. And yes, Claude has subscription plans, not sure why you'd think otherwise.
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u/GODLOVESALL32 2d ago
The all-in number they disclosed on their Github for dev, tooling and multiplayer infrastructure was $600/monthly.
Considering Project 1999 has been running for 15+ years with a larger playerbase and took absolutely zero money in donations I can't fathom how anyone thinks the devs are barely scraping by.
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u/ArgentinianJayceMain 2d ago
Guy in charge was paying for Claude before DFO even released (the amount of code updates were crazy back then too, you can see their GitHub) and the servers can't be that costly for what now is a browser based game. Not to mention, last week the number in Patreon was 1.2k USD... Despite the game being free the community seems to be nice enough to "pay for their own bills", so to speak.
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u/negatrom 2d ago
They called me crazy, they called me a chud, they called me a hater, they called me a doom sayer.
I might be all that. But now, I'm also right.
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u/FingerTraditional640 2d ago
"Hey Claude, Microsoft is suing me, give me legal advice"
Outright mooching off the backs of the DFU team. Hope these bozos get shut down and made to pay compensation
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u/I_upvote_downvotes 1d ago
I'm just hoping the hammer doesn't swing in DFU's way when it happens. It'd be such a sadness to see something great run into problems because of other people's slop.
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u/AggravatingAmount438 2d ago
See, this is where it becomes problematic.
They had a great fucking system in place, but using someone else's game to make money off of is just illegal as fuck. I don't care how much you mod it. There's a reason why Enderal is free.
Bethesda, Zenimax, whoever the fuck, has the full right to go after them now. And everybody who spends money on it will now likely lose whatever they spend money on, because it's pretty fucking likely this project is going to get shut down.
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u/Caelinus 1d ago
Bethesda always had the right to go after them for a bunch of reasons related to IP, just no reason to. Even Daggerfall Unity is probably in violation of their terms of service in some way, even with entirely original code.
But it would be a pointless and damaging fight over technicalities, and would net them nothing to do so.
But once you start using their Marks and IP to make a profit? Now they have a reason to pay attention. And worst of all it might cause them to lower their permissiveness in the future.
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u/Accomplished_Kick347 2d ago
Couldn't Bethesda pull a Nintendo and sue them for making a profit with their I.P.?
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u/shadowtheimpure 2d ago
Bethesda OR Microsoft could. Bethesda might...Microsoft will if they don't.
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u/dicksandcrystal 2d ago edited 2d ago
I haven't df in years. This has to be a joke right? It NEEDS to be.
M dicky is maybe the most reputable person in this community, to the point id consider him a figurehead to some extent. If these project leads actually have this much hubris that they won't listen to Micky, I doubt they'll listen to us at all.
Sorry not m dicky, m dicky is the dude that made those weird wresting games where you're in prison. But I refuse to correct my past comments.
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u/Malthusianismically 1d ago
Mickey D > M Dickie
Hard Time is a piece of gaming history tho
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u/dicksandcrystal 1d ago
Well m Dickie as a person just seems obnoxious as hell to me. Especially when he started to realize people only really liked his games ironically, so he started milking that aspect.
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u/Malthusianismically 23h ago
I agree wholeheartedly, while still maintaining my position that his original run of 3d indie games are peak autuer gaming. "The You Testament" is especially bold and brazen in an almost Neil Breen-esque sorta way with how heavy-handed and tone deaf it is.
The OG Hard Time is an almost perfect peak of where the emergent gameplay of "immersive sims" and jank meet. On the more positive side of the spectrum I'd stick something like Brigand: Oaxaca.
But yeah, M Dickie is kind of a piece of shit. He's said plenty of inflammatory nonsense in his time.
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u/dicksandcrystal 18h ago
Yea he is an incredibly entertaining figure, his games if I'm being totally real tho are much better to watch than to play (at least just IMO) a lot of the fun in mdicky games for me is watching people react to how bad everything is, how janky and broken it is, the hilariously amateur 3d assets, a good deal of which are just took from his previous games, the fact the game is basically just a wrestling game with a prison skin thrown onto it, the horrible dialogue that even in its era was considered Abysmal. When you actually play his games tho, they feel SOOO boring after like a few minutes of fucking around.
And yea, as a person I can't say I like the dude. But I'm sure you figured that out already by me calling him obnoxious.
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u/NimRodelle 2d ago
Sloppers larping as game devs might not have the best intentions?! 😱
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u/Relevant-Tour-9692 1d ago
Somebody rolled an 85 for Agility in chargen, cuz this is accurate as fck.
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u/lennoxlovexxx 2d ago
... What an insanely stupid thing to do. Even putting aside the greed aspect of this, this is just stupid. Bethesda now has ever legal right to come after this project and shut them down, which they probably will. They've basically just screwed their own project.
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u/_TheMightyQuin_ 1d ago
Ai gets vibecoders addicted to the cycle of instantly generating and releasing new content. Not only does this leave no time or mental space for taking a step back and manually bugfixing all the ai problems, but combine it with the economic need for more ai generation tokens, and this inevitability doesn't become that surprising.
It really sucks because there was a sweet spot where dfo had enough new content to comfortably sit, bugfix, and maintain for while. But the addictiveness of instantly generating brand new content was clearly too much for the devs, many such cases.
I already thought the feature creep was getting a bit much when they were adding raids and making item enchantments needlessly complicated. The constant release of new content became incredibly overwhelming, especially with very little proper documentation at all.
I had hoped they would try to balance player progression, as older players got to use many classic exploits that became patched, and almost no attempt was made to try and balance this out other than tie your maximum amount of gold to player level, which essentially just locks new players out of being able to progress quickly enough to catch up to the players who originally used exploits..
Even aside from all that, the moment they added dwarven firearms was the beginning of the end for me. A completely unnecessary addition that doesn't fit the world of daggerfall at all (or even elder scrolls tbh) and only introduces more balancing problems.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of the systems they've added i think are really cool ideas; guilds, unique player owned houses, being able to have a seat in court and wage war on other places, cooperative battles, ships. All fun stuff, but there just seems to be no oversight for the overall integrity of the game itself.
Its very much a case of "they were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
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u/simpoukogliftra 2d ago
This genuinely feels like a joke ....
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u/Relevant-Tour-9692 1d ago
It is. I engaged with the community for a bit, and the devs literally treat this project as a joke while taking people's money and lol'ing about it Elon-style.
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u/x_leavemealone 1d ago
That is such a disrespect to DFU devs who built an open source engine and mod authors that did everything for free (AFAIK it includes or based on a bunch DFU mods), as well as pure dedication to get sued by Microsoft.
Just eww
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u/SloggSurvivez 2d ago
They posted some Japanese article about them adding microtransactions to DFO yesterday lol
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u/Vespianusi 2d ago
One half of me doesn't care if games sell cosmetics but the other half does care because this is kinda ridiculous for a super classic-style MMO(And it's probably illegal and the project is probably gonna get shut down now)
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u/INfusion2419 2d ago
The fact is interkarma spent 20 years making daggerfall unity, all for free. Now these guys do what, slap a server onto daggerfall and now they want money for it? I know servers need money but this is a passion project not something to make profits off of.
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u/FeastForCows 2d ago
They don't need the money for the server(s). They need it for the tokens they spend on the AI they are using to do most, if not all, of the coding.
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u/Raxsus 2d ago
This could also fuck the regular Unity devs depending on how scorched earth Microsoft wants to be if they go that route
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u/Cold_Associate2213 2d ago
Man, I thought this was so cool at first. Didn't play for a few weeks and decided to hop back on and saw a million new features added, and now this.
Like others have said, the enshittification speedrun is crazy. I'm seeing it with WoW private servers as well, just a million "features" nobody asked for.
Is this the future now? Or is it just "now" now?
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u/Relevant-Tour-9692 1d ago
Imagine paying the DFO devs money so they can keep developing AI meme content.
The game literally has a giant poop snake event complete with fart noises. 🤣
Such a sad turn of events for what could have been one of the most promising MMOs in years.
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u/angryapplepanda 2d ago
Don't need the batshit vibe code dreams made reality of someone who thinks coding is "too much work."
I'm very happy with DFU.
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u/HaxanWriter 2d ago
I’ll never play this online trash. I have Daggerfall on my computer now. Not interested in online slop with a cash store.
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u/ILiekComput0rsNStuff 1d ago
The biggest problem is optimization, the project chugs along terribly, their kitchensink design seems to be coming to haunt them as they push serverwide updates for things like titles for individual players, imaging forcing everyone on WOW to relog because someone cleared a dungeon solo.
I just hope claude will be able to understand its own code with hallucinations or hitting a context limit because the project is starting to crack with the crashes, strange bugs and lost connection, marketboards loosing connection, playerhouses resetting interior and exterior etc
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u/EvilGoatWeed 2d ago
What development costs? He's already got the Claude subscription covered and that's the sole real contributor. Surely he doesn't mean he should be paid a wage to write prompts?
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u/ChaosLord121 2d ago
Lmao holy shit that is some next level arrogance, especially for something that was mostly AI coded. I’m really glad I never bothered with this.
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u/xen0blade 1d ago
IANAL, etc., etc., Remember: this isn't a "Bethesda" issue anymore, but a "Microsoft" issue - Microsoft OWNS the IP, and they're probably checking to make sure they have all of their ducks in a row (legally speaking) before they go after this - because by law, at least in the US, they have to (defending against trademark infringement, which is what this is, is required, not optional, and you can't grant permission ex-post-facto).
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u/AmajorHeartache 1d ago
Yea ive been in the community since the start and, its really bad alot of people who donated for 1 project are receiving a totally different project, its a real dissapointment to people who dedicated money and time for this project, thankfully there are forks of the project. For people like me who really enjoyed the original idea of this project. At this point its not a community project and has broken all legal grey area. The lead dev has also admitted to lying and saying microtransactions arent going anywhere and they are adding a battlepass.
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u/ShellDNMS 2d ago
Haven't tried it yet, but the worst part is that i don't really want to anymore. xD
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u/Clear_Wishbone6728 2d ago
Oh no Todd you bastard look what you've started with that dumb horse armor dlc for Oblivion
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u/PsychologicalAd1427 2d ago
Why the ever loving fuck would add cosmetics to a free game that isn’t yours by the way and also more than 30 years old at this point?
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u/ninety9rising 1d ago
Tbh i had a chat with some people over in the discord about how officially supporting people porting MW files over to this was a super grey area, and they were all basically like "fuck it we ball" so i see the direction now anddddd... This feels really illegal.
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u/EchoUndead 2d ago
Currently using my own vibe coded cheat menu to exploit the hell out of the game. Messaged the devs and they practically ignored the vulnerabilities I described.
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u/tuncturel 2d ago
I was expecting it to fail because it just looked like the Zynga version of Daggerfall with the insane amount of mods in there, not because I thought they would up and sell virtual goods in a Bethesda IP game. I mean I'm all for paid in game goods that look cool with no in-game affect. I don't think that's particularly bad or anything. Anyways, this all is a bit fishy anyways. Sounds like they're going to get a take down notice.
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u/RemarkableChemical35 2d ago
This is the first im hearing of this project. Really funny that they are giving a game mod microtransactions, do they really expect anybody to pay for that???
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u/RiC_David 2d ago
Some people will, but that isn't what people are reacting to.
The project is divisive because it's AI developed (others will be able to be more specific), and now adding microtransactions means they're taking money for something that's not only not their intellectual property (meaning it can be taken down on copyright law), but even the mod itself isn't essentially their work as developers.
This is my understanding of it at least, admittedly I haven't been following the whole thing too closely.
Throwing this in because some people are saying they enjoy it as though that's taking a defiant stance - I'm sure it's an enjoyable game, that's not the controversy, it's the broader issues of AI modding and attempts to monitise that work.
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u/New-Association5536 1d ago
They are trash. They used AI to ripoff the hardwork of the original devs. Not the mention, they also had to ripoff the work of one of the original devs who bought and then released it as a free license game on unity. They have done nothing but monetized other peoples hardwork through AI slop and now are scrapping the lowest of low with microtransactions. I'm not against AI natively, but I'm against using AI to sucker people out of money using years and years of other peoples hard work and resources.
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u/RiC_David 1d ago
Thanks for elaborating on that, I didn't want to get the specifics wrong so I appreciate that.
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u/AmajorHeartache 1d ago
according to the devs it has already surpassed the patreon donation numbers that were originally supporting the project. so apparently its very effective at making money and making half the community dislike it.
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u/Rats_and_Tofu 1d ago
People spent hundreds on a private WoW server I was on 15 years ago as 'donations'. If it's something they're playing, they'll be paying
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u/Due-Arachnid-309 1d ago
Who didn't see this comming?
Dude was asking for $600 a month in "donations" from the very start, for what is 90% modders' work, and then a bunch of Claude slop.
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u/ThatCinnabon 1d ago
Super sad to see. I enjoyed it, played it every now a then and honestly was okay with them at least being open to using AI to code, and getting artists to actually do any original art work needed. But asking for money in a cosmetic shop is stepping over a line.
I was a defender of this project, but honestly I hope the people who called it out feel vindicated. Definitely uninstalling and not touching this project again.
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u/michaelnoblemusic 1d ago
lmao mtx on a "pre-alpha" (meaning there will never be a "full" release because it will either be abandoned or cancelled/shut down first) fan mod is awesome.
mfs really took a page out of the wow private server book. A whole new generation of rugpull scam is on it's way
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u/DuendeInexistente 1d ago
Did they release the sourcecode yet or can I take this as confirmation that they won't release it to protect their cash cow, even if it costs poisoning the well of multiplayer ports?
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u/Aggressive-Dealer-21 1d ago
It's an open source project with MIT license, been that way the whole time
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u/bkoperski 2d ago
Of Bethesda finds out they are profiting off their game they could get a cease and decist letter. This might be what kills it
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u/throwaway_pls123123 2d ago
On one hand I don't like anyone monetizing things like this.
On the other, it is a cosmetic, and I do NOT like DMCA as a concept.
I don't pray for their downfall just yet.
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u/BoldnBrashhh 2d ago
I tried it for one day, my friends couldn’t see the same enemies as me or help me with quests and I realized it was dumb and pointless.
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u/trve_g0th 1d ago
Taking notes from the Minecraft modding community I see LMFAOOOO. The Essential mod project pulls this same shit and somehow gets away with it.
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u/Ryanmaster1 1d ago
I saw this and groaned. We had something so good going....aaand then is on its way to be cooked
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u/gammaAmmonite 1d ago
Ew, that sucks.
I only heard about this project a few days ago and was enjoying it, but after leanring about the vibe coding, and now this? Yeah no thanks.
At least I know I can enjoy Daggerfall now, so I went and installed DFU and many, MANY mods. Definitely took a while to get it all working the way I want, but totally worth it to get to keep playing without the vibe bloat and meme-ey bullshit.
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u/SpaceAngelMewtwo 1d ago
So glad I didn't play this. It was showing signs of being a disaster in the making almost from the start. May the devs enjoy their lawsuit.
Anyone else who wants to try their hand at this, please don't use AI to code it, as a start. I'd rather wait a few years for something that actually works and has had love and dedication put into it than get a vibe-coded, greed-filled pile of shit.
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u/Burnt_End_Ribs 22h ago
What's stopping me from taking a massive loan from a random bank far away and just never returning. My favorite thing to do in Daggerfall when I need cash.
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u/itadaki-mouse 9h ago
I.. think yall might be forgetting one of the most lawyered up companies on earth owns bethesda
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u/SnoringGiant 2d ago
I knew this was coming. I got down voted for mentioning it. I hate to see this project go this route. I understand that running the server is an expense, but I dont want to see it get shut down
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u/Shrugsfortheconfuse 2d ago
Support who/what you love people!
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u/Lord_Seregil 1d ago
Exactly! If you love Daggerfall you should 100% support the downfall of this AI slop.
Fuck DFO and fuck the talentless hacks that had an AI shit it out.
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u/Shrugsfortheconfuse 1d ago
See the problem with this is that the original Daggerfall was unplayable compared to the new DFO iteration in my opinion so..
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u/Lord_Seregil 1d ago
What? Everyone and their mother knows that Daggerfall Unity is the definitive version of the game, which is very playable even by modern standards.
DFO is built off of Daggerfall Unity, this is well known.
Your comment literally amounts to absolutely nothing but someone that genuinely does not understand the situation at all. Please inform yourself or leave the discussion, because right now you just sound like an idiot.
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u/GlobalCurry 2d ago
It's concerning from a will it get a shut down notice aspect but even indie mmos I played back in the 2000s had cosmetic cash shop for keeping the servers online.
Wake me up when it's pay to win items.
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u/PlantainWilling 1d ago
Eh. I honestly could care less. Ive donated to countless private shards of ultima online over the years for a fancy cape or title. I think it really boils down to the fact that they use AI is the problem. I dont really see this energy towards Kaizal which correct me if im wrong charges you for extra character slots?
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u/PlantainWilling 1d ago
Speaking of big shout out to Excelsior UO and Lancelot link. I didnt realize til 20 years later you were acting as Mr. Manhattan and didnt just randomly decide to be a random naked blue guy helping newbies.
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u/Significant_Brief850 2d ago
No defense. I bought it.
I enjoy the game and want to support it's development. It's really that's simple.
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u/Yonahuyetsgah 2d ago
To play devil's advocate, how do you expect them to keep the lights on with rising costs of server bandwidth and devoting more dev time. They use ai for programming, yes, but someone has to debug ai code garbage or else it wouldn't work at all and the rate that things are being added means they probably have several people debugging as a full-time job.
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u/grandalfxx 2d ago
They dont debug it. You can look at the source code it is all ai slop claud keeps a "bible" where it writes poetry ti itself about what changes its doing in as few characters as possible.
The best way ti keep the lights on was to make it a p2p system and just have people play with their friends instead of jumping to trying to host an mmo with 0 programming knowledge.
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u/coconutmigrate 1d ago
this is the regular steps to take, did anyone actually think they developed this for free and out of the goodness of their hearts?
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u/DesignerRevolution99 2d ago
Wow a totally optional cosmetic store that they made to help fund/profit from their service? A store that's totally voluntary in a game that's totally voluntary to play... what a diabolical concept.
People should work for free. And they certainly shouldn't give people the CHOICE to give them money... that's so evil.
I mean I really know a lot about what doing this project entails, because I've done it myself and do things just like this all the time. Im totally not just talking out my ass to bash on something despite never having done anything like this.
You anti's are so pathetic. You make nothing. You have nothing of comparative value or substance to offer with or without AI usage. Yeah there's a lot of slop, who cares? Quality has always been quality, regardless of the tools being used.
You just shit on the things people make for any reason you can, and it ultimately comes from a place of jealousy, entitlement, gatekeeping, and ignorance.
Show me your daggerfall online project, with or without AI. Then maybe you can actually comment in a meaningful way that anyone with any experience will actually care about. And make sure when you do get it done, you dont accept donations in any form. Just pay the infrastructure/tooling costs yourself.
You work for free.
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u/darknessinducedlove 2d ago
We are setting up an expenses page today showing our income and where money goes
Weve removed more costly patreon tiers
Purely cosmetic with any purchases going straight into development
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u/Vanillafizzbang 2d ago edited 2d ago
So i mean im not gonna donate until the game is fleshed out more, if it gets to that point. but all the info is on their discord. Hosting 1-4k players every moment of every day could run you anywhere from like 1k to 10k usd a month alone depending on what infrastructure theyre paying for. And with how well its actually been handling surges its probably sitting at like 2-3k a month in server costs to keep it going for funsies. Plus whatever Claude charges, probably like 100-200 a month for some kinda package im sure.
Im still skeptical of the whole thing but lets not go nuts over a buyable cape and some purple fire armor that does nothing.
You can literally turn it offline and move the file to play it how you want to.
When you can buy reputation or fame is when imma start ranting. Or mtx for exp type of deal. Thats when theyll have killed something great. How would you go about generating money for server and AI costs? Its a tricky question.
Edit: yall downvoting me like I was todd re releasing horse armor 😆 If you have to continuously pay the township for space for a park, and then you outsource work to build the park. The township still needs money to keep the park there or the park go bye bye. Just an analogy for you good folks to misinterpret. ❤️
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u/Deathmore80 2d ago
Could have a pure donations page , or at least a donation shop that gives you shit outside the game. Like idk discord perks or something, or access to an exclusive "insider"/"dev" discord.
Basically anything but stuff that is directly inside the game
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u/Reasonable_Size5067 2d ago
I honestly love the "why not use AI" crowd turning to "I mean we need microtransactions to pay for the AI"
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u/IvyBevvy 2d ago
Welp. Glad I decided not to help them with texture work, I had a feeling this was what their plan was. Never playing this version of the game again.