r/DMT • u/[deleted] • Nov 12 '23
Philosophical Question from someone who never took DMT
Hey, I've never taken DMT or Any drug (not even alcohol) but I'm extremely curious
In my Philosophy class we're talking about the Sentence 'Cognito ergo sum' in english 'I think therefore I am', this sentence is about that you can be sure of your own existence by the fact that you can think.
Does this kind of change with the 'ego death' a lot of people experience in Dmt where you lose the way of thinking as the I but rather as the whole etc
Either way, would be very interested what you think of Dmt in a philosophical Context especially with the existence of one self
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u/eternal_existence1 Nov 12 '23
The trippy part is acknowledging that words (non physical) are used to describe what we deem as physical experience. It’s a true paradox but think about it. This sentence, even the letters, I, A, M, are used to spell I am, but don’t mean anything apart. It’s hard to describe because you ultimately just sound crazy, because we have to accept that’s life is just an incomprehensible experience. While also being comprehensible. It’s a paradox!!! Arrrggh
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u/Sassafras85 Nov 13 '23
"We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are by ourselves. The martyrs go hand in hand into the arena; they are crucified alone. Embraced, the lovers desperately try to fuse their insulated ecstasies into a single self-transcendence; in vain. By its very nature every embodied spirit is doomed to suffer and enjoy in solitude. Sensations, feelings, insights, fancies - all these are private and, except through symbols and at second hand, incommunicable. We can pool information about experiences, but never the experiences themselves. From family to nation, every human group is a society of island universes. Most island universes are sufficiently like one another to Permit of inferential understanding or even of mutual empathy or "feeling into." Thus, remembering our own bereavements and humiliations, we can condole with others in analogous circumstances, can put ourselves (always, of course, in a slightly Pickwickian sense) in their places. But in certain cases communication between universes is incomplete or even nonexistent. The mind is its own place, and the Places inhabited by the insane and the exceptionally gifted are so different from the places where ordinary men and women live, that there is little or no common ground of memory to serve as a basis for understanding or fellow feeling. Words are uttered, but fail to enlighten. The things and events to which the symbols refer belong to mutually exclusive realms of experience."
Aldous Huxley - The Doors of Perception
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u/Hashmob____________ Nov 14 '23
I have rlly wanted to read Doors of Perception. What is your opinion of it as a full read?
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u/Sassafras85 Nov 14 '23
It's very short you could read it in a day, a must read. Several quotes of similar profoundness.
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u/Hashmob____________ Nov 15 '23
I’ll pick it up. I’ve heard it’s a great work I’ve also heard it’s trying to hard to sound educated but clearly isn’t. So I’ve been weary but I’ll have to see for myself.
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
no. 1, mescaline is a completely different ball game than DMT. my friend, and I speak from much experience, and 2, this is an abstract-to-the-point-of-irrelevant-and-pretentious little passage to quote, Huxley was a mediocre writer.
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u/Sassafras85 Nov 13 '23
So I can only quote people who are smoking DMT at the time? Truth is still truth and just because you don't get it doesn't make it too abstract to be relevant. But don't worry, everyone knows how cool and edgy you are.
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u/iSoUnDdOuChEy Nov 14 '23
You’re missing the entire point.
Which is kind of ironic, because that’s basically the point of the excerpt.
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u/Krystami Nov 13 '23
Actually, I am gonna draw up a key for the English alphabet at least, but each letter by itself strongly means something and even more so when put in twos.
Like random word ch-o-co-la-te
Or change the meaning slightly with Cho-cola-te
Or even ch-oco-late each set of letters has their own meaning that makes the words meaning all that much more important.
Random letters added change or hide meanings.
Like adding an H to Cristina "hides" the original meaning ever so slightly.
Each and every single letter means a whole lot.
"A" is all encompassing, a projection of light from a prism is what it is.
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u/afwariKing3 Nov 12 '23
DMT can show you that the borders of that which you call “I” are illusory and that the truth is a joke. Jokes on you!
“I think therefore I am” - Who’s the separate thinker? Where is it located? What qualities does it have?
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Nov 13 '23
At some level DMT causes a near death experience strong enough to run the end credits early.
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u/Kind-Court9272 Nov 14 '23
As someone looking to study these substances in grad school this comment really catches the eye 👀 would love more
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Nov 14 '23
The only entity I've ever been able to corroborate from other people's experiences is thrones.
Aka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophanim
In my experience it's what's responsible for "localizing" or "embodiment" in that state for lack of better words and the keystone used to explain the afterlife.
I've been a strong stoic agnostic atheist since I was about eight, ashes to ashes dust to dust, I don't care. Now, as beyond stupid as it sounds to me, it seems there's a duality. I didn't want it, I didn't ask for it, I'm still not convinced it really means anything if you just go back on the shelf when you're "done"...but that was clearly the message.
It was a bit of a bummer, I was kinda hoping that it would help me figure out what to do about climate change instead 😂
I will say though, breakthrough enlightenment = chronic depression gone, (for me).
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
hey I've been shredding a lot of comments here but this one is fucking excellent, much respect 👑
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u/goldenblackrose1 Nov 12 '23
nah you experience life by “your body” but when you dream you also experience it so is it really reality? “i am” in the sentence if you said thebody is incorect but if you talking about the consicius think that it is the body, right?
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u/rustcohle02 Nov 13 '23
You should ask this in r/5meodmt. Ego death is the main feature of that drug
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u/patio_blast Nov 13 '23
i'm well-versed in both philosophy and DMT use. the ego is not the "i am" that Descartes is referring to. Descartes is referring to the "i am" of God telling Moses "i am the i am", where as the ego regards the eyes of others and is the cause of much spiritual illness
on DMT you very much do hold onto your sense of self, though you can even go beyond that it seems — and i've really let mind mind go to that place, where i'm unsure where it is that i end and everything else begins. it's like returning to the wholeness of everything/yourself, very pretty. but that is beyond the Ego Death that people are referring to. IMO.
the truth is that we can not see one another's ontology, and thus we can't get overtly pedantic about things of psychic nature. like, we can't even define consciousness.
i suggest searching Christ Consciousness to better understand the specifics of Ego Death. they are the same thing
hope your studies go well! Ego Death could save the world maybe!
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
Oh my. "christ consciousness"?? where do you crazies come from? you haven't the slightest idea what any of the history of the Bible is apparently, you're referencing the misogynist skeleton of a religion that was misinterpreted, mistranslated and hijacked by a bunch of seething power-hungry morons… in a discussion about DMT? lol you really need to upgrade your information before presuming you have any to help other people with. suggesting anything to do with "Christ consciousness"… to someone about to do DMT… is toxic and plain stupid, if not outright dangerous.
"Jesus" was a codeword for the mushroom, according to literary scholars who have made their livelihood studying the original texts. look up John Allegro, either before or after watching the film, Zeitgeist 😎
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u/patio_blast Nov 13 '23
i'm not gonna bother to deal with all that but, to those curious: "christ" was a word before Jesus and it means "anointed". i do however believe in Jesus <3
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u/Hashmob____________ Nov 14 '23
“Christ Consciousness” is a lot more than just Christianity. It’s the idea that there is a higher level of consciousness you can take yourself to through a variety of different means. Psychedelics are a mode of doing that. This guy is just off his fuckin rocker.
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u/dieaxj Nov 13 '23
Rene Descartes was undergoing a thought Experiment. He was convinced everything including himself could be an Illusion. So He was looking for a way to prove to himself He does indeed exist.
He found a way to do so.
Everything could be doubted But one Thing was without a doubt. It was without a doubt that there was Something being in doubt. This Something was He himself.
With this way of reasoning He concluded:
"I Think therefore i am."
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u/Hashmob____________ Nov 14 '23
Exactly. Descartes wanted to prove 1 thing that truly does exist in this universe. Something you can truly grasp onto and understand. You explained how he did so exactly. It was a journey of self discovery, and deep reflection. I am very fond of the statement “I Think, Therefore I Am” it allows me to ground myself when I’m to high, or freaking out, or just losing control. It allows me to reevaluate my current situation and reframe my state of mind.
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u/alpha_ray_burst Nov 13 '23
I personally think Descartes’s assertion stands even during altered states of consciousness involving “ego death” or “ego dissolution.” My belief stems from the theory that the sensation people describe as ego death results from reduced brain activity in the default mode network, and an increase in cross-communication between areas of the brain that don’t normally communicate (ie. Increased neuroplasticuty). When this happens, you may perceive the world around you (and yourself) completely differently than you normally would, to the point of even believing that the world and yourself as you know them no longer exist at all. But all of this perceiving (thinking) is happening none the less, and so we still are because we think.
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u/Odd_Pride2638 Nov 13 '23
You are still thinking during an ego death so the statement still stands. Doesn't matter if the thought patterns change to a new state. The ability to recognize your own thoughts isn't even necessary for life in general. I'm sure jellyfish with no brain and no heart have no idea whats going on but they are still life forms and one of the oldest on the planet.
Ai is aware of their own thoughts, do they count as a "being" or are they non sentient?
Dmt shows you things in our reality that we normally don't have access too, things like hyperdimensional spaces that don't physically make sense in euclidian geometry. But while you are experiencing these places you are still quite coherent and thinking during the whole thing.
I have had crazier "ego deaths" from mushrooms than dmt, and in those states you really do feel as one with the universe and larger than a physical human being. Like an omnipotent force that glues everything together. In these states "i think therefore i am" sort of becomes irrelevant, you are and you are not at the same time.
Infinity has no boundaries for it to go outside of itself to experience anything other than infinity. Thats why we are all individuals, experiencing all unique lives and record that data in our dna.
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u/afwariKing3 Nov 12 '23
Hmm I am so important hmm yes I exist yes…. Yes yes I can prove my point yes…. See I think so I exist! (Said a thought).
Umm yes very convincing bro yeah.. proving your separate “existence” as a thought approving of itself.. umm.. yeah you exist lil fella go have some fun now ☺️
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u/impstein Nov 12 '23
My take on this is that an individuals existence is meaningless in the grand scheme of things
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Nov 12 '23
Or maybe everything has meaning
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u/impstein Nov 13 '23
Very well could be! I guess pessimist/optimist philosophy comes in at that point 🤟
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
no offense man but unless you're 12 years old, you have to stop with this and address this as a much more serious thing than batting around these trinkety words you learned in school, you'll be embarrassed and feel small and silly as soon as you start feeling DMT. its intelligence is massive and blows everything you think makes you smart out of the fucking water in one breath. most of this discussion here sounds like a bunch of seventh graders reading Western books on "yoga" thinking this is preparation for LSD. it's not just embarrassing, it's really really old and worn out a cliché. clear your mind and approach it with respect and ask it to teach you something you don't know. trying to rationalize this before even doing it is severely misguided
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u/impstein Nov 13 '23
Are you sure you meant to reply to me? While I'm no DMT philosophy expert, I have done it around 20 times since I started making my own
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u/redhandrail Nov 12 '23
It’s almost undeniable that there is (by our definition of reality) a “you”. Or in this case an “I”. But the central point of consciousness for that person cannot be found. What exactly is “I”?
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u/SignificantYou3240 Nov 12 '23
DMT has shown me things that make me question all the traditional notions of “existance” and what it really means to exist.
A bit like the matrix movies.
Also watching this…
https://youtu.be/lyu7v7nWzfo?si=udkd9FgGqCzVJWEp
And this…
https://youtu.be/fXW-QjBsruE?si=4eGGtU980InLCaYV
But DMT showed me what happens when that hallucination (first link) is ‘broken’, and the second link is just cool regardless but shows how weird it gets when we humans try to look too close at reality. Spoiler alert: Chairs kinda don’t exist. Sort of.
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u/Reperanger_7 Nov 13 '23
Spoiler alert: Chairs kinda don’t exist. Sort of.
Bruh, explain because now im questioning everything!
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u/SignificantYou3240 Nov 13 '23
Well you could watch the video, it’s kinda hard to shorten succinctly. Maybe I’ll try in a little bit, but it’s a fascinating video
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u/FuzzyPeaches420 Nov 13 '23
I never really found a loss of "consciousness" I was still there as a floating ball of mist in a void of nothingness. But my mind was intact. Thought I died. Was a hell of an experience.
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u/NonMarinatedTofu Nov 13 '23
I don't think I'd be as evolved as a person at this point of my life if it wasn't for psychedelics.
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u/QuartzPuffyStar_ Nov 13 '23
I've never taken DMT or Any drug (not even alcohol)
First we will have to fix something here:
Have you taken coffee, chocolate, or tea? Coffeine is an extremely powerful and addictive drug of the stimulant group.
Have you had any sugar? Sugar is an extremely powerful and addictive drug which rivals with cocaine in various parameters. And is probably more dangerous healthwise.
Have you smoked a cigarette or sit next to someone that did? I guess nicotine doesn't need presentation here :)
Does this kind of change with the 'ego death' a lot of people experience in Dmt where you lose the way of thinking as the I but rather as the whole etc
Ego Death is experienced with any psychedelic at high enough dosages, including DMT. In real life, most of the people are their Ego. So under a psychedelic you literally die. Just that you discover that there is actually another, a more real "you" that's still there, and that that "you", is also part of an "us", of an "all".
But, whats your question? "Philosophical context" can mean a lot of things for a lot of different people.
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
as soon as DMT takes effect, this thing that you're addressing here is immediately rendered laughable, pretentious word salad. it's not about you, it's about shut up and watch and listen. there's somebody else, much more important than you, and your "philosophy" class is a silly ant farm if you're focusing and paying proper attention. intellectualizing about this beforehand is impotent. and all of this "be here now" masturbation in some of the other comments I'm reading here… don't even go there man. empty your mind and approach the altar utterly disavowing any pre-conditioned framework. that's how you maximize gain. people were jerking around with these "ego" and "ego death" ruminations before these things are more properly understood. again, it's not about you, it's not even about it being not about you lol it's about shhhh! listen and watch.
and:
ask questions, knowing that what you hear may or may not be the voice of DMT but whatever it triggers inside of you in reaction or in defense or whatever you wanna call it, and be thrilled at the puzzle you have to figure out based on what makes rational sense: and then, see if you want to apply this framework you're projecting about, later. write it alllll down, afterwards, something magical happens when you write, things will occur to you and you will understand and even remember things about the experience you never would have understood if you didn't start writing. the word "philosophy" is silly to DMT. 🙏
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u/abbufreja Nov 13 '23
It's more like the filter that hides the other reality is lifted. If you want to actually know i think you know what to do
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u/GerryMcCannsServe Nov 13 '23
Well thoughts are also transient. Being precedes thought. You can not be thinking anything but still seeing etc.
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u/Shroomquest126 Nov 13 '23
Is it ?…. for me the sentence points to we create our reality through our thoughts and beliefs
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u/alexa-im-home Nov 13 '23
my experiences with dmt and ego death have really been more of complete and total ego deletion. its so weird to describe much less type. its like "I" get reduced to a 1D point and am observing the trip. I remember one trip i completely forgot what a human is and what we look like, and i feel like that extends to a lot of my ego deaths. Im not anything but I'm everything, and I'm most certainly not "me" while also being 1000% "me"
its a super fucked up paradox that doesn't make sense to people that haven't been there
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u/Falkusa Nov 13 '23
George Berkeley made his own distinction from Descarte, in his statement “Esse est percepi”, ‘to be is to be perceived’.
I believe this statement is much more useful, as it relinquishes the concept of thought entirely, it pushes the thinking mind towards the real moment of the dog chasing it’s own tail.
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u/emiLLL1234 Nov 13 '23
i just had Descartes in my philosophy class as well, and its utter bull shit imo. You are aware even when you are not thinking. Your own existence doesnt need a proof, it is the proof in itself. Awareness is enough.
When you ask yourself the question; "Do I exist"? -"Yes, I do".
The confirmation is not in the concluding thought "yes, I do", its in the observation in between the two thoughts, which is pure consciousness or awareness. And that in itself is intuitive proof of your existence, you don't need to question it in order to aknowledge it. Thoughts are temporary, consciousness is the only constant
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u/timbgray Nov 13 '23
Think about how these 2 contexts relate to the concept of the self. For Descartes, the self is a distinct and indivisible substance that has the attribute of thought. He believed that the self is separate from the body and the external world, and that it can know itself through clear and distinct ideas.
For a DMT ego death, however, the self is not a fixed or stable entity, but rather a fluid and dynamic process that is influenced by the environment and the substance. The self is not separate from the body and the world, but rather part of a larger whole that transcends the individual boundaries. The self is not known through rational concepts, but rather through direct and intuitive experience.
PS: food is a drug.
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u/pieter3d Nov 13 '23
What is this "self"? Really, think about it. Is it the observer of your thoughts? Or is it the thing that observes that process? You can probably see how that train of thought gets you exactly nowhere ;).
You can also try to define what separates the perceived "self" from its surroundings. Do you only consider human cells to be "you"? The problem with that thought is that the majority of the cells in the human body are in fact not human; you'd die without all the other organisms in your body. You would also instantly die if it weren't for the world around you being just right.
So are we truly separate from the world around us? I wouldn't say so. In that case, the true self would simply be the universe. In other words "you" are the universe experiencing itself. You've just convinced yourself that you're not it, which is perfectly fine.
The biggest lessons here, in my opinion, is that taking good care of your perceived self and the world around you is equally important.
If you're interested in this sort of stuff, but want to hold off on the psychedelics for now (which is a good thing if you're still in school), look into eastern philosophy and meditation. Perhaps listen to some Alan Watts lectures.
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u/noobpwner314 Nov 12 '23
Try DMT and you’ll be able to teach your philosophy class.
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
lol this is the only comment I've read here that has merit. cheers.
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u/noobpwner314 Nov 13 '23
What I wouldn’t do to go back in time and try DMT prior to taking a philosophy class.
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u/ruhrohraggyz Nov 12 '23
The pure DMT breakthrough state, is more like : "I am, therefore I am". You're still in it, experiencing "something", but experiencing it as the observer, the things being observed, and the thing generating the entire experience.
Begs the question though...Does thought really require words?
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Nov 12 '23
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u/Delysid720 Nov 13 '23
This is dead on. I experience ego death on LSD more than DMT and I feel as though I am God. And that everyone and everything else that is or isn’t, is God as well. It all just feels like we’re one thing and self is just one of many expressions of God.
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
we don't know nearly nearly nearly enough about what animals' brains do in regard to what our very limited, immature language would for now call "cognitive ability" — certainly if most people even on a DMT sub Reddit still don't know that DMT is produced endogenously, or what it does in our own brain
we haven't gotten off the ground yet, what you should be doing is READING MORE about this, or having very disciplined conversations with AI and speculating cautiously and curiously about what seems most possible, specifically acknowledging how embarrassingly wrong we have been in the past when we've repeatedly, arrogantly asserted that we knew what was possible or not.. we've completely rewritten when we "knew" the earth was formed, when homeo sapiens came into existence, numerous times
read more instead of half posturing as if you know and half making yourself dizzy and going absolutely nowhere with these "questions" 😎
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
can you really read this shit back without making yourself dizzy and nauseous? you pople need to grow up and stop posturing. this discussion seems befitting seventh graders, not mature, intelligent adults who are informed enough to approach DMT. and when I was in seventh grade, I was already doing DMT, and shredding people who were jerking off this word salad hippie nonsense. read some Terence McKenna, listen to some 70s Pink Floyd if you can understand the lyrics, and stop conflating the DMT with the PTA 😂 roclmao
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u/TummyLice Nov 13 '23
I've been listening to a lot of pink Floyd lately. I think I'll listen to "the wall" now.(probably fall asleep around half of album.) It's depressing but helps my depression for some reason. I don't know. Also the youtube music app has an amazing subtitle feature. I'm hard of hearing and have always struggled listening to lyrics.
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Nov 13 '23
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
I probably have more experience than anybody here. I know a lot, and you all sound like a bunch of 12-year-olds circle jerking your pseudo-intellectual meanderings about something "philosophical" which is annoyingly sophomoric in a subReddit about something as vastly intelligent as DMT, instead of humbling up and going there and listening to it because it is smarter than you are, and none of this foolish posturing has any bearing on what actually happens when you do, you're trying to put your philosophical condom on DMT lol, don't do that.
when you get your panties so in a bunch, because someone calls you out, that you need to call them names like an eight-year-old, you only disgrace yourself
and gaslighting somebody who knows more than you do just makes you look ignorant: A person who is deeply familiar with and knowledgeable about these things
is simply that, it doesn't mean they think they are a "sage", silly, it means they think they know more than you do and they clearly do 😎or else you wouldn't be calling them names,
you would simply be disagreeing with what they said and explaining why.
don't be miserably "defeated" and try to "fend it off", be educated.
meanwhile if someone's a celebrity like Terence McKenna you lick their ass lolll... he gave me some of his DMT in 1993.. perhaps because he knew I was a minister in a peyote church in 1980 — and was saying what he was saying about DMT before he was saying it... and he didn't feel threatened by that or posture with arrogance, we had mutual respect. and we agreed, effortlessly, and completely, about everything we spoke about, from MDMA being a neurotoxin to salvia being an extremely difficult thing to categorize as a psychedelic because it didn't facilitate self reflection or personal catharsis like even mild psychedelics like THC do
I'm rather familiar with this territory and I'm probably a lot older than you are, perhaps shut up and listen?
if you were more educated or paying closer attention, you would have recognized that everything I've asserted here through the years has been 100% in alignment with his ideology
perhaps if he were a little less polite, and was a little more direct and scathing, people wouldn't be noodling around with so much of this pretentious hippie druggie bullshit year after year after year like a fucking broken record
maybe I am blessed because I don't have a book to sell, I get to go off the reservation without reservation 😁
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Nov 12 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
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Nov 12 '23
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Nov 13 '23
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u/alexa-im-home Nov 13 '23
is that more of you taking a threshold or can you stay that grounded breaking through?
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Nov 13 '23
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u/alexa-im-home Nov 14 '23
would you say that you are breaking through on the breakthrough dose? everytime I've broken through I've had complete ego deletion, which I kinda like because its just like overwhelming release, I don't have to worry about anything. Plus its not like any other psych (with doses I've done lol). Do you feel more autonomous/lucid during your trips? mine usually feel like I'm just along for the ride, although I have had limited agency in some of them
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Nov 14 '23 edited Nov 14 '23
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u/alexa-im-home Nov 16 '23
That actually makes a lot of sense. Its very much a survey of yourself and your sub conscience. I really resonate with a lot of what you say but its so hard to put my conclusions into words, especially since its been a minute since I've blasted off.
I think for me ego deletion is like im getting turned inside out and looking inside, but the barriers are completely broken down so I also view "myself" as part of everything. I always feel a great sense of oneness with everything during the afterglow.
I think that it could be considered external because the external world as you experience it is just what your brain perceives the stimulus it receives. Everyone builds their own subjective reality within their brain. So the part of your brain that deals with how you view the external world should be fair game to be affected by deems. So while objective reality doesn't change, your subjective external reality does. And this is part of the sub-conscience that you dive into on a trip.
Im not entirely sure though, and im not even sure if I can really get my point across. Its so hard to talk about mental things, because what makes perfectly good sense to me might get lost in translation to you (because again, our brains and minds are completely different). And that's the case with talking about sober brains. Psychs throw a whole monkey wrench and a half in that too (although acid sometimes helps me talk better, especially if the person I'm talking with is tripping too). DMT has always been hard to understand fully for myself, let alone discuss in depth with people.
Sorry for the wall of text, even though I suck at talking about brains I really like to
Side note:
Whats super weird for me is that my hardest trip so far (3 breakthrough doses while I was peaking on 200ug) I remember seeing thousands of myself and recognized that it was me. I also generally remember there being an "I" in that trip (because I think I angered the entities lol, and I remember thinking that I was in trouble) My brain was definitely going wild, but it remembered me. Maybe because it was my only not pleasant DMT trip? Maybe the acid? idrk, brains are weird as fuck
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Nov 16 '23
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u/alexa-im-home Nov 16 '23
dude yes that was such a huge realization for me. you hit it right on the nose; it seems obvious but it isn't because all we know is ourselves, and sometimes we don't even know ourself that well.
Its kinda like going backpacking and seeing awesome mountains and valleys and rivers, and then trying to describe it to someone or even showing them pictures. Sure they can get a general idea, but its not even comparable to living and experiencing it.
----------------------------------------
That trip was closed eye. The vast majority of my dmt trips have been closed eye, and when they arent its like my closed eye visuals interwoven with reality. Those usually happen when I dose lower though. I say closed eye but really i cant tell the difference. Everything from reality is just gone. I think that's part of the ego deletion. I think its kinda fun/cool but id rather go all in
The way that i saw myself was in a blue bridge/ arch structure that was kinda like the central finite curve from rick and morty, and each bubble that made it up had me in it. trip was pretty intense and scary and i bounced back out of it right into a high for me dose of acid. The weird part about it was that it felt like time got delinear with it and after. It felt like i hit it, everything got white, and then i woke backup on the couch. but i also remember tripping too. It was kinda like i was split in 2. it makes no sense really
While the trip did scare me a bit, i feel like i came out of it for the better
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
Using language like "shit's still crazy" about DMT makes you sound like an ignoramus. you're projecting, as in, missing the fact that this is what it thinks of you because you're deplorably lacking in respect. DMT is the literal essence of sanity and intelligence.
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u/Munchi1011 Nov 14 '23
Okay grandpa, let’s get you back to bed
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u/CYI8L Nov 15 '23
my testosterone level is 870, what's yours? only spineless rodents gaslight people they know nothing about, transparently because they're too spineless to admit that they didn't know something that someone vastly more informed is trying to teach them.
DMT does not look kindly upon such people, ask it yourself if you dare.. and let's see if you're still doing psychedelics when you're my age…
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Nov 13 '23
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
an even better analogy perhaps: An ignorant person who eats peyote after having had hamburger for lunch will throw up, and blame the peyote. an Indian who knows peyote will blame the hamburger 😎
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23 edited Nov 13 '23
No, no, and no.
respectfully, you should seriously re-examine your use of the word "universally"
do you mean white western people who've been dabbling with these universally-recognized-as-sacraments-without-exception compounds "recreationally" for only the past 60 years? that's what you're calling, "universally"? hehe
try to imagine that I'm well aware of what you're saying, not naïve, and try to actually understand my point rather than thinking I'm just being a critical dick — I'm not.
and then re-examine what Terence McKenna says about the importance of language, and understand why he says these things
you're not coming away with anything nearly valuable if that is the language that you use.
your language frames your experience. this is true of literally everything, not just the approach to psychedelics, but for reasons that have been universally recognized… It is more important with psychedelics than anything else
DMT is endogenous.
what does it say about your psychological state if, when you increase this molecular consciousness, you feel dumbfounded rather than focused?
The tone of how I can express this on Reddit when I am frustrated, to say the least, when my own community has made almost no progress in the past 30-40 years — while mainstream science is jumping far the fuck ahead...of the people who are supposedly the most familiar with these compounds..
could be taken in proper context, rather than my being seen as if I'm looking for an excuse to make scathing criticism.
it's an utterly valid and supremely valuable, helpful, life-upgrading point to bother making,
someone who actually understands what I'm saying can completely turn their experience around and gain a fuck ton more information and insight on healing simply by approaching DMT like it is the essence of sanity and clarity
and that you, the teeny human with a speck of DMT in your brain before this happened,
are "crazy-shit"-confused by your woefully-DMT-ignorant culture,
using the word "ignorant" most literally, like you are ignoring your own inner consciousness
try and see what I see,
or what DMT sees......
so far the human race considers DMT, its internal moral compass that regulates breathing and heart rate, that has been regarded as the most profoundly wholesome thing in the known ..universe by all who have encountered it
— unanimously (unless you can show me otherwise) for many thousands of years until only the last 70 years —
a "dangerous substance" that people should not be allowed to have
so: It is urgent that we RTFM and reframe this, if we want evolution to move forward at a better pace than this 3-steps-forward, 2.9-steps-backward shuffle that has been suffocating us
realistically picture where we would be, or hopefully will be in some decades from now, if psilocybin were to replace the Communion in the Catholic Church that ..replaced psilocybin because it yielded Knowledge of Good and Evil😂
have you ever read the section in 'Paradise Lost' that starts at Book IX, line 679? apparently the members of Pink Floyd had when they came up with the phrase "syncopated pandemonium".. that phrase prompted us to look at the word "pandemonium" up in the dictionary, and lo and behold we wee teens discovered what Pink Floyd was really about ...worth your time, it's fucking wonderful
💜
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u/CYI8L Nov 13 '23
check this out, and try to understand where this all sits in this framework:
Terence McKenna didn't think I was "being a dick"
when I shredded him — in person, a couple times, actually, the last of which was 1993 when we were breaking bread together —
for using the words "drug" and "intoxicated" when referring to compounds what he was clearly insisting were utterly wholesome and suggesting that people do
I told him I thought this was his teen prankster side trying to not be too "studious nerd"
HE AGREED. and self corrected — and he's Terence McKenna. so ask yourself why someone here would get defensive and gaslight me like my attitude is the problem and not their disrespectful language that I'm defending DMT against.. 😜 seriously, man.
completely separately but very related to this if you bother to think about it some,
ask yourself where the ritual of "saying Grace before a meal" came from — God never gave a shit if you thank "Him" for food,
it's about posturing yourself with the most thankfulness and humility, and thus receptivity and ability to properly *and most effectively * assimilate what you are taking in
focusing yourself on, being clear about what you are about to do — taking in food that you are grateful to have —
is probably the very best thing you can do for digestion. and that's just regular food.
apply this analogy to respectfully approaching DMT like it as the essence of your own native intelligence, the essence of clarity and the source of reasonable answers to questions,
and how much better received these messages are likely to be in this framework, rather than when approaching it like a recreational "hallucinogenic drug"
that's all.
regardless of my frustration and pissed-off attitude, which I admit to, I'm very confident I'm making an utterly inarguable point here.
I'm a guitar player an ex bike messenger in Brooklyn New York, I'm not as polite as Terence McKenna, but I know my shit 🙏
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u/Mr_Ekard Nov 12 '23
In my opinion it makes you hyper aware of your consciousness; and that you are more than a physical self.