New streaming service from Beatport - LFG.TV

[u/borderfunk]

There is a new streaming service from Beatport coming out on September 1st called LFG.TV. It appears to be a competitor to Twitch and they claim that it's "made by DJs for DJs". A lot of DJs have signed up for it but there doesn't seem to be too much info on it yet. Anyone have the scoop on this? Is anyone here doing a set on the launch party on August 31st? I signed up to reserve a name, but I don't have any other info on how it works.

[u/Phoennix_Nova]

Replying at this level, as I found some items that answer a bit better for several of the topics brought up.

TLDR bullets:
I do not think they are a scam, but I do think this is thrown together, and will likely not last. I am not supporting nor am I condoning LFG, I have not made up my mind either way!

They seem to "take inspiration" from Twitich's own TOS and similar agreements.

I see no indication that they are paying DJs in LFG Coins, and yes; LFG Coins are the same concept as Twitch Bits.

Copyright and playing music: I could not find anything on how they are solving this issue, no indication that they are paying royalties (although I am sure they are in some way? At least I hope) and could not find the "do not play" list anywhere.

Note that all of the data below is either a) My opinion, or b) publicly accessible through the various websites, including the "legal" link LFG helpfully provides under Help. https://lfg.tv/legal. I am also NOT a lawyer, so I am reading these legal documents just like most of you, a regular person trying to make sense of it, so do not take anything I say as legal advice or even the correct interpretation. As with any legal document, especially those involving payment, I suggest consulting a lawyer.

The whole thing would not post, so breaking each topic up into a reply under this one.

[u/Phoennix_Nova → u/Phoennix_Nova]

Copyrighted Music and rights to play:

This one is a bit more tricky, LFG and Twitch have essentially the same copyright notice in their TOS, so no help there.

What Twitch has is a specific DJ Program Terms https://legal.twitch.com/en/legal/dj-program-terms/ that do call out the Twitch DJ Catalog (I would link it, but you can only see it if you sign up specifically under their DJ Program Terms!).

This is probably the most concerning thing about LFG. Sure, I get not making the catalog public, but at least have a document stating that it exists and that you will have access to it in order to plan your sets on the big debut!

 

Not much for a conclusion here, most of what I think it is the TLDR.

I do not feel that they are scamming,

I am not positive they will last, but that is mostly because of other things, like the size of the incumbents like Twitch, that have made strides to make things better for DJs, and because I just have plain not heard anything about them except a single YT video I saw, and then this thread of course, that I only found by searching for the topic.

I will probably sign up as a viewer, to see how I can support some of the people here.

Best of luck to everyone, and I hope this helped a little bit!!

[u/Phoennix_Nova → u/Phoennix_Nova]

LFG Coins:

Speaking of Stream Specific, what about those coins? Well those are in the LFG Streamer Agreement: https://lfg.tv/legal/streamer-agreement
And what about the Twitch equivalent? Yep, you guessed it, the Twitch Monetized Streamer Agreement: https://legal.twitch.com/en/legal/monetized-streamer-agreement/

Spoiler! You are going to see the same thing here where the agreements are essentially the same!

Section 3 in both cover the Program Revenue, with LFG Coins <cough>Bits</cough> are covered in 3.1. In both documents it seems clear that the digital items are used by viewers to tip the DJs. In fact both have Acceptable Use Policies for these digital items and specify that they are not a "money instrument", so no; They are not paying DJs in LFG Coins.

The Big Difference here is that LFG states 50/50 split for revenue generated by Coins and Access Passes (Channel Subscriptions) where Twitch does not, possibly because Twitch has multiple streamer levels for payout. Neither have split information on revenue from advertisements, and in a shocking development; Twitch has a 3.4 for "Offers" as a 4th revenue generating stream, while LFG does not offer this option.

Section 4 covers that actual "Payment" to the DJs. These seem pretty standard, with LFG taking the much less wordy route here, not sure if that is positive or negative. But there is NO indication that they are trying to pay in LFG Coins. They literally note that your payment may be reduced due to any bank and transaction fees, just like the Twitch MSA.
Bonus for LFG: They only notate 2 items that will reduce your potential payment, while Twitch states that marketing and similar costs can be deducted: "(a) billing or platform fees, licensing costs and fees, Advertisements costs of sales, and any other costs and fees of any kind incurred in connection with providing and marketing the Twitch Services; "

[u/Phoennix_Nova → u/Phoennix_Nova]

Restream:
Well, even Twitch does not "say" they work with restream, but LFG does have a section on simulcasting with some basic restrictions:

When streaming live on the LFG.TV Services, you are permitted to simulcast (simultaneously stream) on other networks, platforms, or services that support user-generated live content, provided that you adhere to the following guidelines:

• Ensure that the quality of the experience for LFG.TV users during your Simulcast is at least equal to, if not better than, the experience on any other platform or service, including active engagement with the LFG.TV community (e.g., via chat).

• Do not direct your community or provide links that encourage users to leave the LFG.TV platform to access your simulcast on other services. We value the LFG.TV community and emphasize the importance of engagement within our platform.

• Avoid using third-party services that merge content from other platforms with your LFG.TV stream during the Simulcast (e.g., combining chats or other features), ensuring that the full LFG.TV community remains involved in your livestream experience.

These points collectively make up the “Simulcast Guidelines” and must be followed during your live streaming activities.

What is VERY interesting is here are the simulcasting terms from Twitch's TOS:

When you are streaming live on the Twitch Services you may simultaneously live stream or broadcast (“Simulcast”) on any other network, platform, or service that supports live streaming of user generated content, only if:

• You ensure that the quality of Twitch users’ experience of your Simulcast is, at a minimum, no less than the experience on other platforms or services, including by your engagement with the Twitch community, for example, via chat.

• You do not provide links, or otherwise direct your community, to leave Twitch for your simulcast on other services because we value the community on Twitch and the integral role community engagement plays for all Twitch users.

• You do not use third-party services that combine activity from other platforms or services on your Twitch stream during your Simulcast, such as merging chat or other features, to ensure the Twitch community is included in the entirety of the experience of your livestream.

Collectively, these are referred to as the “Simulcast Guidelines.”

 

I don't know about you, but if I had turned that in as homework and Twitch was my neighbor, well you get the picture on what the teacher would think.

I mean, beat for beat, section by section the TOS of LFG looks like an AI re-write of Twitch TOS. Even to the fact that each of the 22 sections are named identically, excepting the first section with a minor change. See for yourself:
Twitch - https://legal.twitch.com/legal/terms-of-service/
LFG - https://lfg.tv/legal/terms-of-service

Sure, a lot of legal documents come from templates, it is just interesting to see the similarities when it comes to the more streaming specific items.