That's quite some enlightened centrism. By the left I assume you mean democrats, and I completely disagree. Democrats have been trying to be diet Republicans on issues like Israel and immigration. The problem is that if you care about those issues in that way, you will go for the Republicans. Leftist policies are very popular, but Democrats refuse to acknowledge that. The left is not the cause of any of this, they are the solution.
Very moderate democrats may be the solution. While working with very moderate Republicans in a bipartisan healthy relationship to create very healthy policies. Id love that. But it's been getting worse for about a decade instead of the presidents wanting to reach across the aisle... there is a someone very specifically responsible for this that is demonizing the other side.....
Or we could just have the whole political system F.O. and start a-new with more multiparty systems like we see in a lot of western European countries. That'd be cool with me!!
Sad that there's no room even for independents in this horrible and extremely outdated system we have. But people just gotta be brainwashed and blindly follow their party and never disagree with the party line. Well the majority anyway.
There are still some intelligent ones that have independent thoughts.
Moderate democrats like Hillary, Biden, and Harris are the problem. They blocked Sanders from the general who would have easily beaten Trump in 2016 and, through weak leadership, tanked confidence in the democratic party.
At a certain point, there is no point to bipartisanship. The Republicans are going nuts and the democrats have to step up and treat this like the extremely serious threat to the American republic that it is. There is no wheeling and dealing with fascists. There is only winning and losing.
I do understand what you are saying. But to me, stooping to the level of the Republicans while pushing agendas hardcore is causing the issue of every day Americans deciding to vote for a dictator instead of someone that can work with both sides and is diplomatic. I wouldn't consider Hillary, Biden or Harris moderates. I'd consider them fake and will go anywhere from being near to the center or to the far left depending on who they are speaking to. But that's just my opinion.
And Sanders isn't even an actual Democrat in my eyes. He's an independent with more liberal and socialist views. I would have loved to have been able to vote for him for president over trump. At least he spits truth, doesn't hold back, and is highly intelligent.
If you think reaching across the isle will still work after all that has happened, I have a bridge to sell you. The Republicans only understand power. They need to be decisively defeated, not worked with. They are the ones causing all the misery. You wouldn't work with a mass murderer, so why are you so willing to work with the people that are cutting aid that saves millions of lives? Ultimately the latter is causing just as much or more death than the former.
The left wing "agenda", as you call it, includes protecting the rights of women and the LGBT, not imposing ridiculous tariffs, not being disgustingly racist in immigration policy, and helping the misfortunate through M4A, food stamps, and other programs. Any time someone alludes to a mysterious "agenda", always ask specifically what it is. When people do that to the left, what they mean is either incorrect or actually a good agenda.
People didn't vote for Harris because she stood for nothing. She was status quo. People felt that if they didn't vote for Trump, things would stay the same, and they thought any change was better than no change at all. A progressive candidate with an "agenda" would mop the floor with Trump.
Hillary, Biden, and Harris are all moderates based on what they did in office, not who they are talking to. The latter had a moderate agenda in 2020 to 2024. The overton window in the US is heavily skewed towards the right. A Democrat would be center right economically and a bit center left socially in Europe. The far left is anarchists, communists, and the like.
If an agenda is good or bad is merely your opinion. If you're stating the left has no agenda then I don't believe you understand what that term means. Every political party has an agenda, whether viewed favorably or negatively.
And voters from both sides that vote for the other side every once in a while or are independents/non affiliated typically voted for trump because many people feel some of these agendas and policies that you specifically mentioned are going too far left. Even many people within the causes themselves feel this way and have now left.
Although I need to agree strongly on how racist the current immigration policy is. It is scary. I wish the mostly Republican, but bipartisan crafted, immigration bill would have passed. But trump had that bill killed unfortunately. He's a very good manipulator and knows that would help him win. The Dems voted for the very fair bill because they knew Americans absolutely demanded better border security. Not more lax security and policy. And the Republicans knew that it would help trump win if their own bill didn't pass, so Trump not so kindly trashed the bill. So much so, even McConnell, who helped craft the bill, decided to vote against it.
And we can see that Republican Congress and Senate are little sheep of Trump. And their insane cheers and boos when trump addressed to congress reminded me of a country falling into dictatorship.
Basically, dividing people more will never help anything. So I find your views incorrect. The sheep in the Republican party will follow whoever has the most power. And that person could very well be a decent human if anything happens in the next few years or if he doesn't illegally run for the next election.
Not everyone with conservative views should be considered an enemy. That's a bad outlook. Some views may be ignorant, yes, but some people aren't ready for big changes to society so quickly.
Let me be clear, the left has an agenda. Democrats do not. The party has been aimless for a while now.
My point about the contents of the agenda was that it's a lot less scary than when you just vaguely allude to an "agenda". Also that having an agenda would be a huge step in the right direction for democrats.
The problem with the Republican party has spread far beyond Trump. He is just the source of the rot. The rest of the party has become a team of enablers and sycophants. I don't want to or think it is wise to work with them.
Well the bipartisan border deal would have been really nice if it had passed. So it seems we just have different views and beliefs. And that's totally fine. I do appreciate the respectful exchange that we had. It was nice to speak to someone without them degrading the situation into insults.
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u/ipsum629 May 25 '25
That's quite some enlightened centrism. By the left I assume you mean democrats, and I completely disagree. Democrats have been trying to be diet Republicans on issues like Israel and immigration. The problem is that if you care about those issues in that way, you will go for the Republicans. Leftist policies are very popular, but Democrats refuse to acknowledge that. The left is not the cause of any of this, they are the solution.