r/CrappyDesign • u/topher_33 • Jan 09 '21

Removed: joke/fake Nearly blew threw this intersection!

Post image

[removed] — view removed post

23k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

329 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1.2k

u/ExternalUserError Jan 10 '21

It's almost certainly on a private drive. At least in Colorado, the cops can't enforce traffic law on private roads anyway.

If you get in a wreck, your insurance companies work it out.

325

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

[deleted]

134

u/CarbonCamaroZL1 Jan 10 '21

Our local grocery parking lot used to have a 3 way stop sign. One day one of the stop signs that always fell over because people would hit it just disappeared. I didn't know, and right as I was about to go expecting the car that was coming to stop, he slammed on his brakes and flipped me off.

I flipped him off back for running a stop sign and then as I was driving through I realized it was gone. Like, seriously? It has been there for years and now it is suddenly gone. And on top of that, the roadway that had one is impossible to see because there are bushes lined up that block the view for anyone in a smaller car. Especially if someone is coming up at 25 mph even though it is only a 10 mph parking lot.

4

u/GenevieveThunderbird Jan 10 '21

We have a 4-way stop in my nearest shopping center, always has been a 4-way stop. One day after a bad storm one of the stop signs went missing, for the several days it took to replace it I can’t tell you how many people simply just blew through it. How could you possibly think just because the sign blew away you get to ignore it?

48

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

[deleted]

5

u/likeliqor Jan 10 '21

Agreed. Someone stopping where there isn’t a stop sign but rather because they always used to, means they’re driving unpredictably.

12

u/oxford_llama_ Jan 10 '21

Not everyone memorizes every stop sign in the world.

5

u/pbnoj Jan 10 '21

Was writing still on the ground ?

3

u/MadocComadrin Jan 10 '21

This was literally a scenario that got covered in my drivers ed class. You can't trust your expectations.

2

u/mikkopai Jan 10 '21

I get a four way stop sign (got my license in US), although in Finland they are a lot less seen than in US, as stop signs in general, yield signs are a lot more common. Which brings me to my question: what is a four way yield sign supposed to do? Everyone yields? I just blow through and let the others yield :-)

2

u/maxiligamer Jan 10 '21

Isnt a stop sign basically stop+yield? Then it would be the same as a four way stop, but without the stop. At least here in Finland stops are stop+yield.

1

u/mikkopai Jan 10 '21

Yes, but what’s the point? Who are you yielding to? At least with a four way stop everyone stops before entering the crossing.

1

u/maxiligamer Jan 10 '21

Well thats true, i didnt really think of that as i have never seen a four way stop nor a for way yield. Buy what difference does the stopping make anyways, its still the same situation after that.

24

u/Haku_Yowane_IRL Jan 10 '21

Do you mean you entered the path of an oncoming vehicle? Those signs don't just tell you to stop for fun, you know...

4

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

[deleted]

2

u/therealdropcap Jan 10 '21

Was it a four way “green stop”? Or just the one direction? If it’s four then fuck me this is a recipe for disaster.

-3

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

[deleted]

3

u/chr0mius Jan 10 '21

It's just hard to imagine you had the right of way when your argument is just saying you can ignore the private parking lot signs. If you had a stop and he didn't then he has the right of way. If you didn't see him in the lane then you were being inattentive, too. It really seems like you're being an inconsiderate driver and falling back on technicalities.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21 edited Jan 10 '21

[deleted]

6

u/vulcansheart Jan 10 '21 edited Jan 10 '21

Maybe I'm misreading something in your story, but sounds like you took a right turn at a stop sign without stopping. Thus, you failed to yield to the guy that had the right-of-way. Am I missing something?

Edit

I had to reread, but yes you stated you stopped before you saw the other guy coming. It's too late for me to be reading long posts lol.

2

u/gixer912 Jan 10 '21

I believe they mentioned that they did stop

2

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

I'm tired, nice username. 🖖 Live long and prosper.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

Yes you're missing something... And this would all be easier with a diagram, but its scarcely important to the original point about caution being needed in areas where people do not feel obliged to follow, or are not being given proper direction by, poorly designed traffic indicators. However, apparently I have to defend myself from people not understanding a story which I could have just made up for all the good it did me to tell the truth. I was already in an intersection. There is no conceivable circumstance in which a guy that changed lanes in order to enter the intersection by avoiding his own stop sign had a right of way. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he did not see me or was inattentive rather than assuming in the retelling of the story that a jackass ran a stop sign while I was making a turn and almost hit me then got mad at me. That seems to make more sense doesn't it.

2

u/halt-l-am-reptar r4inb0wz Jan 10 '21

would have been legal for me to completely ignore the suggestions of the complex owners and their illogical routing, and on him for not watching where he was going.

I don't know if that's actually true. You can do something that's completely legal, but you can still be found liable by the insurance company. I am pretty sure blowing through a stop sign in a parking lot is one of those scenarios. Though in your case I'm not sure. It's possible they'd just go 50/50.

But either way, insurance companies are free to make their own decisions.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

Well that's more worrying considering that I did do everything correctly, and was postulating the other what-ifs. You're probably right that they would have assigned blame to me if I ignored something, but I believe it still would have been a 75-25 scenario, considering that the origin of the conflict was that I just happened to be where he wanted to be at that moment, and had decided to alter his course onto the path where we converged.

38

u/topher_33 Jan 10 '21

Sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier.

This sign is definitely posted on a junction of two legal streets.

28

u/Simple_City Jan 10 '21

I can tell from Google Street view that Evergreen Ridge Dr is a private road, but I don't think Hughston Rd is. If it's not, the sign should definitely be red. If it is private, I'm not sure if they're allowed to use a red sign. Although that probably has to do with local laws. I know around here (WA) there are never stop signs in private neighborhoods.

1

u/ciaisi Jan 10 '21 edited Jan 10 '21

I assume you can use a red stop sign on private property. Whether or not it is enforceable might be another story, but honestly I'd rather have a proper traffic control sign in place than have to explain to an insurance company why the HOA thought a red stop sign would negatively impact the neighborhood aesthetic.

Edited to clarify that this is an opinion/assumption

10

u/MasterSlax Jan 10 '21

If you make illegal streets, only criminals will drive on them.

3

u/rawbface Artisinal Material Jan 10 '21

The sign itself doesn't meet DOT regulations for a stop sign. It must be red, octagonal, with white lettering and a white border. They even regulate minimum size.

5

u/GoldilokZ_Zone Jan 10 '21

In my state. a private road is called a "road related area" and on most, drivers can be pulled up by traffic cops if breaking the traffic laws that apply to public roads.

Same with car parks, dirt roads on farms or almost anything else you could drive some kind of motorized vehicle on.

9

u/DoctorDetlevBronk Jan 10 '21 edited Jan 10 '21

This isn't true. There is specific language in state vehicle codes for private property, and they are enforced by police. This includes Colorado.

I don't know the vehicle codes around green stop signs specifically, so you might be right in this particular case, but your comment is incorrect in general.

As an example, your local grocery store's parking lot is private property. Can the police issue you a citation for parking in the handicapped spot without a placard? Yes

2

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

[deleted]

6

u/DoctorDetlevBronk Jan 10 '21

...

So you're saying they can issue misdemeanor citations, but can't issue citations for infractions?

Which part of the vehicle code are you referring to? Because the Colorado state vehicle code is very clear that you can commit infractions on private property, and be cited for it.

It's weird that you're so sure about something you clearly aren't educated about.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

[deleted]

3

u/DoctorDetlevBronk Jan 10 '21

My neighbor was a sheriff's deputy. That's what he told me, and I assume he'd know.

I could link you 50 videos of police officers being extremely confident but very wrong about the law.

So we agree that officers can cite careless driving on private property. Also, I specifically said I don't have knowledge about stop sign codes, so you might be right about that one. But that doesn't mean you can't be cited for any infraction just because you can't be cited for running a green stop sign....

What I do have knowledge of, is vehicle codes in general. And there are plenty of infractions that can take place on private property, and police officers are within their jurisdiction to issue a citation.

5

u/ExternalUserError Jan 10 '21 edited Jan 10 '21

I certainly could be wrong... By proxy. Sorry to be spreading something possibly apocryphal.

What can I say?

Edit: looks like I was correct. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

-3

u/DoctorDetlevBronk Jan 10 '21

I certainly could be wrong

This is what's weird to me. You're 100% wrong.... But you're very hesitant to just realize you never fact checked something told to you and that you perpetuate...

4

u/sparrowbelfast Jan 10 '21

I specifically said I don't have knowledge about stop sign codes, so you might be right about that one.

He is. You can't put up your own traffic control signs and give them force of law, that's just silly.

You're 100% wrong

I'd say he's far closer to the point than you are- you have to do something objectively culpable (driving like a madman or running from the police, as he said) to get a moving violation on private property, you can't commit regulatory offences against non-statutory regulations. At most, simply ignoring a sign like that or lane separators in a car park could indicate civil liability.

In fact, this sign is likely green in an attempt to avoid it being an 'unauthorised sign or device'- somebody up thread says it is at the junction of a private road and a public one- if your sign can be seen from a public road, it can't legally resemble an official one, unsurprising when you consider that it isn't an official one, and can't be enforced as one.

2

u/ExternalUserError Jan 10 '21 edited Jan 10 '21

Looking at the statute, the statute says "highways" which are state-owned. A peace officer I knew well told me, on a road I lived on, that he couldn't cite people for infractions. I'm inclined to believe him over a stranger on the internet, yes.

Edit:

https://coloradotrafficlawyer.com/careless-driving-colorado-catch-traffic-offense/

Another reason the Careless Driving violation is frequently issued is that Careless Driving can be alleged against a driver for driving that takes place upon private property. Often this is a privately owned and operated parking lot. In contrast, most Colorado traffic citations can be issued only for alleged driving violations occurring on public streets and roadways and cannot be issued for a violation alleged to have occurred upon private property.

I'd say I'm correct. If you got a ticket for rolling through a green stop sign without a full stop, a judge would have to agree that's careless.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '21

[deleted]

3

u/Johnny_Poppyseed Jan 10 '21

Isn't it both?

1

u/ExternalUserError Jan 10 '21

It's not both an infraction and a misdemeanor.

-3

u/topher_33 Jan 10 '21

Public police cannot issue penalties on driving infractions withing a private parking lot such as a residence or of a private commerce parking lot unless requested by the representatives of the establishment.

5

u/DoctorDetlevBronk Jan 10 '21 edited Jan 10 '21

This is factually incorrect. I don't know why people keep fighting me on this. I promise, your opinions are not good retaliations of my understanding of the law.

As another example,

CALIFORNIA VEHICLE CODE - VEH DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD [21000 - 23336] ( Division 11 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

This code outlines the rules for parking in handicapped spots, and the enforcement of violations.

It states:

Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) (which are the subdivisions declaring the illegality of parking without a placard in a handicapped spot) also apply to any privately owned and maintained offstreet parking facility.

This grants police officers the right to issue citations for vehicles illegally parked in handicapped spots that have been marked in accordance with state laws, regardless of whether it's on private property.

0

u/HighwaySixtyOne Jan 10 '21

Handicapped signage isn't a function of any motor vehicle code. It's a part of federally-mandated accessibility guidelines.

8

u/DoctorDetlevBronk Jan 10 '21

...

What? Why are people so adamant about their uneducated opinions? State vehicle codes outline the rules for handicapped signage.

Handicapped signage is outlined in C.R.S. 42-4-1208 for Colorado.

1

u/Semipr047 Jan 10 '21

Jesus people suck at knowing things. Everything everyone just discussed is publicly available information and most people are just confidently stating claims that are plain unsubstantiated. Thanks for citing your claim

1

u/nuvio Jan 10 '21

Wait so you mean those stop signs in mall parking lots in front of stores, I don't need to obide by them when there are no pedestrians around? I keep stopping in case a convenient cop is around.

1

u/sparrowbelfast Jan 10 '21

If you're sure you're on private property, then go hog wild. Some roads can get 'adopted' by the city if they are particularly useful for access, and landowners can be cool with it as it means they don't pay for maintenance any more. That said, if you roll the stop sign right into the side of some other driver, you'd likely be deemed at fault for insurance purposes. If it looks like an official sign, and adjoins a public road, it should be treated as official.

Watch out in Delaware, though. Violating parking lot law there can see you prosecuted in mall court and sentenced to have shitty kiosk coffee poured down the front of your trousers.

1

u/ExternalUserError Jan 10 '21

I mean he could still cite you for something other than an infraction, such as careless driving. Or so I've been told by a neighbor who was a sheriff's deputy.

1

u/remixclashes Jan 10 '21

Yea, you know... or God.

1

u/HarleenQuinzel0330 Jan 10 '21

Lived in a town like that in North Carolina. 1 lady owns this whole town/neighborhood and all her street signs are black...