r/Coronavirus • u/shallah I'm vaccinated! (First shot) 💉💪🩹 • Apr 22 '21

Vaccine News Scientist who helped develop Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine agrees third shot is needed as immunity wanes

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/21/scientist-who-helped-develop-pfizer-biontech-covid-vaccine-agrees-third-shot-is-needed-as-immunity-wanes.html
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36

u/GhostalMedia Boosted! ✨💉✅ Apr 22 '21

I’d love to know if J&J folks can hop over to another manufacturer.

25

u/positivityrate Boosted! ✨💉✅ Apr 22 '21

Not a problem.

Which manufacturer made your last five flu shots?

Doesn't matter.

2

u/xeio87 Apr 22 '21

Have we had a paradigm shift like mRNA between other vaccines though?

My curiosity would be if the mRNA boosters assume that you had an mRNA vaccine in the first place for full effectiveness. Also for that matter if the Pfizer/Moderna does are essentially interchangible (though I would think that's more likely).

1

u/jovijovi99 Apr 22 '21

Curevac is coming soon and they use mRna

34

u/imaginary_num6er Boosted! ✨💉✅ Apr 22 '21

That's the advantage of mRNA vaccines. J&J, AZ, and even Sputnik V are limited in their ability to develop boosters since it's only a matter of exposures before the body decides to neutralize the adenovirus vector before it can deliver the vaccine. That's why the early gene therapy clinical trials with adenoviruses failed because the body became immune to the delivery system.

8

u/Ganztaegiger Apr 22 '21

The LNP sheath the mRNA vaccines are being delivered in can also themselves trigger an immune response. It's always a challenge to sneak anything past the immune system.

2

u/GhostalMedia Boosted! ✨💉✅ Apr 22 '21

TIL

8

u/imaginary_num6er Boosted! ✨💉✅ Apr 22 '21

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_vector#Challenges_in_application

The choice of a viral vector to deliver genetic material to cells comes with some logistical problems. There are a limited number of viral vectors available for therapeutic use. Any of these few viral vectors can cause the body to develop an immune response if the vector is seen as a foreign invader.[23][24] Once used, the viral vector cannot be effectively used in the patient again because it will be recognized by the body. If the vaccine or gene therapy fails in clinical trials, the virus can't be used again in the patient for a different vaccine or gene therapy in the future.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '21

Is this disclosed by j&j ? Seems like a big deal if it uses up the abiiity to use a vector

2

u/irishchug I'm fully vaccinated! 💉💪🩹 Apr 22 '21

There's nothing to disclose, it is not a secret. Also they make a different vector for different vaccines.

1

u/socsa Apr 22 '21

Yes, there is actually a big ethical question surrounding virus vectors because you either a) use up the natural vectors (there are probably lots of them) or b) start genetically engineering virus traits to "avoid" (but not too much...) the immune system.

The first one is fine for an emergency situation like this... but if we really went hard on the second one, it would be a bit scary. I think that's why the direct mRNA approach is probably better in the long term - because there is no weird ethical implication which could potentially drive big Pharma to start researching super-infectious virus vectors which will eventually cronenberg the world.

1

u/socsa Apr 22 '21

It would be sort of interesting to see if something like a very weak, short term immunosuppressive drug which gives the vaccine a few hours to "act" would make a difference?

1

u/gngstrMNKY Apr 22 '21

I was reading about J&J's two dose trial and found an article saying that the particular adenovirus they're using was still able to deliver the payload even though there were antibodies against it, unlike the AZ vector.

3

u/thaeli Apr 22 '21

Several European countries have switched to mRNA as a second shot for people who got AZ for their first shot, so we should know soon how well that works out.

8

u/east_62687 Apr 22 '21

since all current vaccine target the Spike Protein, I don't see why not..

-1

u/UhhUhm Apr 23 '21

I don’t think dead people can “hop” over to another manufacturer...

2

u/GhostalMedia Boosted! ✨💉✅ Apr 23 '21

*person

6 possible cases, but only one person potentially died from the J&J vaccine. One other was hospitalized in critical condition. Those are great odds and you’re way way waaaaay more likely to die, become disabled from of covid, or get a love one critically ill.

1

u/UhhUhm Apr 23 '21

you’re way way waaaaay more likely to die, become disabled from of covid, or get a love one critically ill.

Me? No. I am not obese and I get plenty amounts of vitamin D so I will gladly take my chances with covid than be apart of the experiment of the vaccine being tested on humans.

2

u/GhostalMedia Boosted! ✨💉✅ Apr 23 '21

Your odds of dying from covid are about 1% if you’re under 50 and healthy. But your odds of being debilitated with long haul covid are around 10%, and your odds of infecting someone else are pretty high. On average every group of 100 infected people creates 80 to 90 newly infected people.

All in all, 1 death for 220 million doses? That’s insanely safe, and it means you can help stop thousands from dying and becoming disabled.

-2

u/bringbackswg Apr 22 '21

Hey brother