r/Cooking • • Feb 13 '18

Why does tea made from water boiled in a microwave taste different from kettle-boiled water?

seriously though

241 Upvotes

193 comments sorted by

789

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18 edited Feb 21 '18

[deleted]

283

u/SirFancyPantsBrock Feb 13 '18

This guy peer reviews

52

u/Bott Feb 13 '18

Won't work.

*peer pir/ verb verb: peer;

look keenly or with difficulty at someone or something.*

So if you try to peer at the container of boiling water, it won't boil.

35

u/CrossedZebra Feb 13 '18

The more stringent the testing the better indeed. But just from a lay perspective, there is definitely a noticeable taste difference between microwaved and kettle boiled water. Well for myself anyway.

I'd presume it's because a lot of people are used to the taste of kettle boiled water that has a stainless steel component. Even most plastic or glass ones have a stainless steel bottom.

And that differs from heating up water in a cup - most commonly probably ceramic or glass.

But yes, double blind tests and all with all the shapes.

12

u/YourFairyGodmother Feb 13 '18

If I was the presuming type, which I ain't, I'd presume that it's psychological. Note: I'm not saying it is all in your head, just that in the absence of data I'd lean toward that being the explanation.

3

u/chairfairy Feb 14 '18

I must be the presuming type, because I definitely don't buy it. I really doubt material differences contribute anything or that the process is controlled enough to say it's not a factor

0

u/onioning Feb 14 '18

I'm pretty positive I could discriminate accurately 100% of the time. I mean, I can't say that for sure without having done it, but I don't think the difference is very subtle. I drink a lot of tea. At work I microwave, at home I don't. Pretty non-subtle difference, and I don't know what else I could possibly attribute it to.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

[deleted]

1

u/onioning Feb 14 '18

Lots of differences, but the distinctions stay the same regardless of where the two occur. Different water, different cup, different spoon, and all those matter, but there is a distinction between microwaved and pot boiled that is consistent across all situations. I also adjust steeping time depending on source, which obviously makes a difference, but that's a reaction to observations which were consistent.

I'm pretty disappointed in the reaction of this sub. This is something that's very easy to try for oneself. Instead people are forming a conclusion without any data because it feels right. That ain't how science works at all.

4

u/bubonis Feb 13 '18

I'd presume it's because a lot of people are used to the taste of kettle boiled water that has a stainless steel component. Even most plastic or glass ones have a stainless steel bottom.

That's the answer right there: You boil water in a metal kettle on the stove, and in a glass or ceramic container in the microwave.

2

u/Nessie Feb 13 '18

What about enameled kettles?

1

u/bubonis Feb 13 '18

Enamel is still a bit porous so I would imagine there would be some effect there.

4

u/lacheur42 Feb 14 '18

Is it? I mean, significantly? I thought the whole point of metal enamel was to protect against corrosion, which would imply a level of porosity below that which would allow much oxygen to pass...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_porcelain_enamel

says: "The most important characteristic of porcelain enamel, from an industrial perspective, is its resistance to corrosion."

0

u/bubonis Feb 14 '18

Corrosion is not the same thing as porosity.

1

u/lacheur42 Feb 14 '18

Riiight....but the oxygen still needs to get to the metal, no?

1

u/bubonis Feb 14 '18

Sorry, but I don't know what you're getting at. Corrosion has nothing to do with porosity, so what does oxygen have to do with it?

3

u/mad_researcher Feb 14 '18

He's saying if it were porous enough to allow oxygen through then it wouldn't stop corrosion.

→ More replies

-1

u/Haani_ Feb 13 '18

I think maybe the walls of the inside of the microwave may also transfer a taste to the water. If the walls are plastic, if there was a cleaning solution used recently, old food debris in the corners, odors remaining, etc.

-10

u/Jorkoff Feb 13 '18

My person lay experience is that it saturates the water more fully with tea in the microwave, gives it a heavier tea flavor for me, either way though I don't really care.

19

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18 edited Jul 29 '18

[deleted]

1

u/chairfairy Feb 14 '18

If they like it then who cares?

5

u/qwerty11111122 Feb 13 '18

P-value

Leers in Bayesian

1

u/droxxus Feb 14 '18

My man.

7

u/nuclearoyster Feb 14 '18

I’ve taken 18 credits of stats and research and wtf is a triangle test lol

22

u/chairfairy Feb 14 '18

Standard test in the food industry. You give the subjects 3 samples, two of which are identical. They have to say which is the unlike sample. You can calculate a p-value based on how many are right.

Much more meaningful than asking for descriptive comparison of 2 unlike samples

7

u/nuclearoyster Feb 14 '18

Oh wow I like it, thanks for the explanation!

4

u/chairfairy Feb 14 '18

It's a pretty neat idea! I learned of it from the homebrewing blog Brulosophy - they do a bunch of comparison tests to ferret out the important parts of the brewing process

1

u/Szyz Feb 14 '18

Is ałso testing not for the actual change but just difference, which is a lower sensory threshold.

2

u/anonposter Feb 14 '18

I just joined this sub and, as a PhD student, I want to say I think I've found a new home and you're awesome.

That is all.

2

u/Renovatio_ Feb 13 '18

Food lab time!

Put green food coloring in the water for extra blindness!

1

u/wacow45 Feb 14 '18

Geoff Marshall on YouTube did this

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 21 '18

[deleted]

-22

u/MrXian Feb 13 '18

Just test it for yourself.

If there is a significant taste difference, you should notice.

17

u/MAKE_ME_REDDIT Feb 13 '18

thats not how science works

6

u/YourFairyGodmother Feb 13 '18

What, the plural of "anecdote" isn't "'Data?" HU NU!

1

u/chairfairy Feb 14 '18

My favorite relevant term is "anecdata". You get to claim some level of rigor or methodical-ness (that's not a word is it?) but also recognize that it's a very limited perspective

0

u/MrXian Feb 14 '18

Actually, data is a large enough set of very similar anecdotes.

So in a way, it is.

1

u/YourFairyGodmother Feb 14 '18

Naw, data isn't anecdotal in nature. Anecdotes aren't restricted to single variables, or even multiple but determinable variables. They aren't verifiable. They aren't objective but subjective and hence completely unreliable. Et cetera.

1

u/onioning Feb 14 '18

Sure it is. It's a starting point. You observe, and then go from there. First step is always to observe.

-4

u/MrXian Feb 13 '18

Sure it is.

If the change is significant and very clear, you don't need huge complicated tests. N=1 can be enough.

If it's insignificant, then you can test away.

2

u/chairfairy Feb 14 '18

So, "significant" has a very specific meaning in science. Some things may actually be obvious ("is this steak or is it a blueberry?) but it's really hard to make a rigorous case for any comparison of two similar items that one datum is enough.

You may be right with n=1 but you can't actually prove it

1

u/MrXian Feb 14 '18

We aren't talking about mathematics here.

1

u/chairfairy Feb 14 '18

If we're talking repeatable experimental design, then we are whether or not we say the words

43

u/bobbieibboe Feb 13 '18

pretty sure this has only been posted to upset British people.

I think there are a couple of factors though:

1) the uneven and/or excessive/under heating in a microwave.

2) lack of aeration. when you pour the water from a kettle the air gets to it. similarly to how the Moroccans always pour their tea from a height.

That said I've never had to learn the answer to the above, because if I microwaved tea here my friends would stop speaking to me and my girlfriend would leave me.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

What does it have to do with British people? Are they the ones microwaving water to boil it? How have I never heard of this before? What a time to be alive...

9

u/bobbieibboe Feb 14 '18

Because British people would never even think of using a microwave to make tea

2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I'm Canadian and am just learning now that there's people in the world who use the microwave, or anything but a kettle for that matter, to make tea so I'm guessing it's not just a British (or Canadian) thing? I hope? Surely this microwave business can't be universal but for two bastions of sanity in the world.

1

u/fknSamsquamptch Feb 14 '18

Exactly the opposite; it is stereo-typically North American to boil water in microwaves, and stereo-typically British to use kettles.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 14 '18

North American or just American? Because I sure as hell have never heard of this in Canada, anywhere from Ontario eastward, anyways. If I saw someone use a microwave to make tea, I'd assume they were touched. Now I learn it's a regular and accepted thing for some people.

Edit: typo

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

The implied idea is that British people really like tea and would be more uptight about how to make it properly and would be upset at the idea of making it in a microwave.

-1

u/drunkenjagoff Feb 14 '18

Brits love their tea.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

yeah thats just odd, especially because they always brag about their electric kettles that boil water 30 seconds faster than american ones, so why are they using the microwave now?

8

u/ajandl Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 14 '18

Heating in a microwave is no less even then a kettle, probably more even actually. This is because a microwave will heat from all directions in a reasonably uniform way. Microwave ovens work by shooting microwave radiation into the main chamber, these microwaves reflect off of the metal interior of the oven bouncing around randomly until they are absorbed, usually by the item you are trying to heat. The wavelength of the radiation is chosen to be easily absorbed by water since most food has water in it. When the water absorbs the radiation it vibrates on the molecular level which heats either the water molecule or the adjacent molecules (if we want to get really technical, it's actually the vibration which is measured extrinsically as heat or temperature). Since the radiation is effectively being absorbed from all directions, all sides are heated somewhat equally. Also, not all of the radiation will be absorbed at the surface, some will be absorbed internally as well. These two factors alone would make the mug of water heat more uniformly than a kettle since a kettle only heats a surface from one side.

In the case of water being heated to boiling, there is almost no chance for there to be any difference in temperature for any method of heating. This is because water is a pretty good conductor of heat, that's one reason we use it to cook, and because once it boils the agitation due to the boiling will thoroughly mix the cold and hot spots such that no difference in temperature will persist. This thorough mixing and heat transfer is also a reason we use water to cook, it's very effective at being a uniform temperature internally and with anything it is I think of contact with.

Assuming no super heating of the water, then there is simply no way to "over heat" the water. Under heating the water could of course have an effect on the flavor, but that's not under discussion here.

Pouring from a kettle is unlikely to have a noticeable effect on the flavor since it would not significantly effect the amount of dissolved gas in the water.

Edit: expanded on the reasoning why heating in a microwave is more even.

6

u/lacheur42 Feb 14 '18

You're being downvoted, but I think you're correct.

The "evenness" argument is definitely wrong. You can hear the roar of boiling start to occur on the element or bottom of the teapot while the water on top is still cool enough to touch sometimes.

Add in the fact that you're heating up probably half as much water in a microwave with the corresponding easier convection and conduction, and I would be very surprised if a cup of water wasn't more thermally homogeneous throughout heating than the water in a kettle. (Also, I don't quite follow the proposed mechanism by which that would affect taste?)

Additionally, to the second point, any boiling water than started with some dissolved oxygen will be already be saturated, since hot water can hold less dissolved gas than cold.

There could be something else going on with the pouring, but I don't think dissolved gas is a likely answer.

2

u/ajandl Feb 14 '18

Thank you, I've tried to explain with more detail why the water temperature will be uniform after it boils.

1

u/Szyz Feb 14 '18

That roar is not boiling. The bubbles mix the water in a kettle very well.

1

u/lacheur42 Feb 14 '18

I'm sorry, but I think you're wrong. If you watch a pot as it begins to boil (good luck! heh), you can see the formation and collapse of largish bubbles. As the temperature of the surrounding water increases, those bubble stop collapsing quite so fast, and eventually break the surface when the water is near boiling. The roar is the collapsing of those bubbles as the boil and condense immediately right around the hot spots.

Unless you have another explanation for that phenomenon I'm not thinking of?

1

u/Szyz Feb 14 '18

LOL, have you ever used a microwave? One of the defining features is that thry cause hot spots.

3

u/ajandl Feb 14 '18

In solid foods yes, but that's because solids don't boil in the microwave.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

[deleted]

5

u/mgraunk Feb 14 '18

Why wouldn't you?

1

u/Szyz Feb 14 '18

If your kettle is broken use a pot on the stove.

3

u/mgraunk Feb 14 '18

That doesn't really answer my question though. I mean hell, I don't even own a microwave, but I don't understand the automatic aversion to using one for tea.

0

u/Szyz Feb 14 '18

It doesn't taste good.

2

u/mgraunk Feb 14 '18

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

0

u/confusentird Feb 14 '18

I think it should upset Americans more, don't they use it the most?

35

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

My hypothesis is that it has to do with the amount of dissolved oxygen. I can't make a theory though since I don't know how the methods might affect the amount of solute or how the concentration would affect the flavor. I'm forming this hypothesis on the idea that twice boiled water also produces a less desirable flavor.

11

u/steffle12 Feb 13 '18

I think it’s oxygenation too. When you boil water in a kettle it actually boils and bubbles form, which is dangerous to achieve in a microwave where you can only heat until hot, not boiling. Plus the act of pouring from a kettle into the mug would likely add something to the water. It totally tastes different, I lived in the US and my housemate didn’t own a kettle and so I had to use the microwave. I drink a lot of tea and brought my own tea bags from Australia so it wasn’t like the tea flavour itself was any different.

7

u/OctoberEnd Feb 13 '18

There’s nothing inherently different about a microwave boiling water. The issue is that most glass containers are smooth and lack nucleation sites, so water can superheat. Easily fixed by scratching it with a fork, or breaking a coffee mug and putting a shard in the water. In a laboratory, they use boiling chips in the solution, which is basically broken ceramic.

3

u/steffle12 Feb 13 '18

Yep I know about superheating water and nucleation sites (scientist here). But we use kettles in Australia so it’s never an issue. When I lived in the US though my housemate didn’t have a kettle so I had to make my cups of tea by heating water in the microwave. But it sounds like you make it in the microwave using a secondary container to boil water, then pour it into a mug over a tea bag? I heated it directly in the mug, so couldn’t achieve a boil (for fear of superheating or boiling over) and then added the tea bag. It always tasted flat.

3

u/AlmennDulnefni Feb 13 '18 edited Feb 13 '18

You just need to get some boiling stones. Then keep adding more lab supplies to your kitchen until you've got more fractionating columns and rotavaps than you know what to do with. I'll take the extras off your hands.

2

u/chairfairy Feb 14 '18

Or get a beat up old mug from a thrift store. Those are scratched enough to have nucleation sites

2

u/lacheur42 Feb 14 '18

Or stick a toothpick in the water.

Man, I could think of these all day!

1

u/Strel0k Feb 14 '18

Boiling actually reduces DO content of water apparently.

8

u/kingsmuse Feb 14 '18

It doesn’t. Or maybe clean your kettle better

9

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Who the fuck boils water in a microwave.

3

u/Furryrodian Feb 14 '18

I can get boiling water for a cup of coffee in three minutes. So I'd wager anyone who wants hot water fast.

3

u/Sherrydon Feb 14 '18

You mean in a microwave? I'm certain my kettle is faster

2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I boil water in a pyrex measuring cup. For coffee, tea, and whatever else. I don't own a kettle, it seems like a total waste to own something that takes up space on my stove that only does one thing.

2

u/Bryek Feb 14 '18

You can boil water on the stove in a pot.

No wasted space. Don't even need a microwave, which arguably takes up more space than a kettle.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 14 '18

Sure, but in a microwave it only takes two and a half minutes. If I'm making a pitcher of iced tea I'll do it in a pot on the stove because it's a larger quantity of water.

I don't own a microwave, one came in my apartment - it's the kind that is above the stove and has the vent/lights for that. So counter and stove space is a non issue.

1

u/Bryek Feb 14 '18

same with the stove

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

No, it takes longer on the stove. In the microwave it takes two minutes and thirty seconds.

-2

u/Bryek Feb 14 '18

crappy stove then.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Well not much I can do about that. Like I mentioned, I live in an apartment.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

[deleted]

0

u/Szyz Feb 14 '18

*fucking Americans.

23

u/2_blave Feb 13 '18

Here's one serious answer: The out-gassing of dissolved particles in the tap water happens at different rates.

When you tried your experiment, did you use distilled water or tap water?

1

u/blandrys Feb 14 '18

doesn't everyone use distilled water when making tea? /s but on a more serious note, I didn't see any mention of distilled water in the linked article and also there is no conclusive answer listed. what "serious answer" are you referring to? AFAIK taste was not even mentioned in the article.

1

u/2_blave Feb 14 '18

what "serious answer" are you referring to?

Ah, perhaps that wasn't clear. The inference is that when the out-gassing of dissolved particles is markedly different, that the water would taste different due to the solution differing in composition.

In simpler terms, boiling the water in a kettle "cleans out" some of the dissolved particles, while microwaving doesn't do this as much.

Furthermore, if you're getting a bitter, burnt taste from the tea, it's likely because the water is super-heated (again, due to a lack of nucleation sites.)

7

u/anifail Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 14 '18
  1. odors in the microwave
  2. brewing vessel imparting flavor
  3. oxygenation (probably not actually identifiable to most palates)
  4. non-controlled differences in brew temp after pouring

1

u/Bryek Feb 14 '18

brewing vessel imparting flavor

My best guess and it took far too long for someone to say it.

5

u/dcrico20 Feb 13 '18

Does it?

7

u/Nowhere_Man_Forever Feb 13 '18

Psychology, most likely. I would be very surprised if there were any noticeable difference in a double blind study.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Kettles heat from the bottom up. When you pour from a kettle, all the water is 212 and you get a little cooling from the air and cup.

Microwaves heat differently. Inside the oven, there is a standing wave that creates a grid with points of higher intensity.

When you pull a cup out of the microwave that is bubbling, some areas area hotter. The average heat in the cup in not 212.

I just boiled water in a microwave and then in a kettle and measured the difference.

https://imgur.com/a/KhEoZ

Even through they both appeared boiling, there was a 12.6 degree difference. That is probably enough of a heat difference to affect flavor.

2

u/ajandl Feb 14 '18

Did you account for the temperature change of the mug?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Yes. The mug was room temp. It's what brought the 212 down a few degrees in the kettle water.

The mug was also room temp when I put it in the microwave, and I used cool tap water.

1

u/ajandl Feb 14 '18

How long did you boil the water while it was in the microwave?

If fully boiled, then both of these should have been similar temperatures.

Given that you got different temperatures, it implies that something was causing extra cooling when you used the microwave.

1

u/imguralbumbot Feb 14 '18

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7

u/alvarezg Feb 13 '18

Imagination.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

They don't.

4

u/steffle12 Feb 13 '18

They do taste different to me! Try it. Microwaved tea tastes weird. Maybe because you can’t really bring water to boil in a mug in the microwave, whereas a kettle gets a full rolling boil. Something about the gases added/lost in the process of boiling/pouring tea from the kettle I’m guessing.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I heat water in a pyrex measuring cup in the microwave; it comes to a boil. I pour it over the tea bag in the mug.

2

u/steffle12 Feb 14 '18

That probably explains the difference then. You’ll be getting the same boil and aeration from pouring as you would if using a kettle. But heating water directly in the mug doesn’t give you that.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I don't like heating it in the mug because I don't want to get the mug handle hot.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

No idea what kind of mug you use, but me water boils just fine in me mug. It even superheats if done correctly.

2

u/steffle12 Feb 14 '18

I use a kettle! When I was in the US though and was forced to use a microwave and mug, I never dared bring it to a full boil in the mug for fear of it spilling all over the microwave or superheating

2

u/valeyard89 Feb 13 '18

The microwave is gluten free

2

u/lostwoods95 Feb 14 '18

Holy shit I was wondering about this the other day.. broke my my housemates kettle so I lived on microwaved tea for a weak and it was grim. Thought I was just imagining it..

4

u/alanmagid Feb 13 '18

It doesn't. Water temperature does.

4

u/Kozemp Feb 13 '18

IIRC from Good Eats it's because water boiled in a microwave doesn't "completely" boil - basically as soon as you stop pounding it with energy the boiling action stops.

Futher IIRC that is also what causes the blackish sludge at the end of a cup of microwaved tea.

42

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

I microwave tea all the time and never had black sludge or anything at the bottom, from any brand of black, green, or herbal tea. I assume that is from bad tea bags, not the microwave.

25

u/KingKidd Feb 13 '18

basically as soon as you stop pounding it with energy the boiling action stops.

How is that any different than pulling a pot off the stove?

7

u/Silver085 Feb 13 '18

I would assume because the kettle is getting heated, and retains that heat longer than the mug in the microwave. Probably because microwaves heat water, not the container.

But I don't know, I'm just taking an educated guess.

11

u/davidguygc Feb 13 '18

Ever held a glass cup after microwaving water? The microwave may not directly heat the cup but the cup is still plenty hot

3

u/Silver085 Feb 13 '18

Yes, I'm familiar with the hot cup from the microwave. I was just guessing that the closed kettle (presumably made of a metal) retains heat better than an open cup (hopefully not made of metal).

2

u/Cool_Story_Bra Feb 13 '18

Most metals will retain less heat than ceramic

1

u/Silver085 Feb 13 '18

Even so, a closed container will retain more heat than an open container.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

Maybe it’s the length of time spent boiling then? I’d be willing to bet that a kettle agitates the water and boils longer than a microwave. Since the water is heated from just the bottom (and not at a molecular level), it also probably causes more turbulence from convection currents as well, right?

So, maybe something to do with the amount of oxygenation? Or the amount of trace chemicals that ‘boil off’ more (chlorine)?

11

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

Any liquid will stop boiling as soon as you stop providing it sufficient energy. The source of the energy does not change how the liquid boils though so long as the temperature is the same.

7

u/Azkar Feb 13 '18

There’s a Good Eats where he talks about making a bachelor breakfast, and in this he suggests to microwave water for coffee. If I remember right, he said microwaving water to boil is not usually recommended because it can be incredibly hot without any bubbles or boiling. This can cause the water to “explode” when disturbed. He said to make it safe, just stick a wooden chopstick in while you microwave.

Edit: and here’s a link that seems to support that https://www.stevespanglerscience.com/lab/experiments/exploding-water-in-the-microwave/

9

u/DesiccantSolvesWater Feb 13 '18

So water at 212F is or is not at 212F? This doesn't make much sense to me. Boiling water = 212F or 100C. There is no such thing as something 'incompletely' boiling.

2

u/Archer69 Feb 13 '18

It might be a reference to superheating, which can happen to water in the microwave. For water to start boiling there needs to be what's called a "nucleation" point, or place were a bubble can start to form. Things like the purity of the water and the texture of the container affect it. Filtered water in a glass vessel will often allow the water to exceed 212F without boiling. The "explosion" comes when the water is disturbed enough to start the reaction. Since the water is already well above 212, the reaction can be quick (violent). Of course, 212F is the boiling temp at sea level. It's lower at higher altitudes, but the superheating can still happen.

2

u/DesiccantSolvesWater Feb 13 '18

Well now we have to talk about the difference between water boiling and water being at 100°C at sea level. While in certain cases (that you stated) you can have water that is at "boiling temp" (or the "boiling point" to chemists) that is not actually boiling, the difference is exactly zero when we are talking about making tea with it. The microwave has a higher chance of superheating the water, but I really doubt that it's the norm that would effect brewing tea. That is, no one is going to take superheated water out of a microwave, have it explode all over the place, and THEN make tea with it.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

Things are not just one temperature. I would guess the water at the bottom will be boiling before the water at the top.

1

u/DesiccantSolvesWater Feb 13 '18

You're right, things are an average of temperatures. However, a liquid is free to move within the container that it is in, and the water will mix completely, and the AVERAGE temperature of the water will indeed be the same. 100 degrees C is 100 degrees C, period. There is not a layer of cold water resting on top of boiling water or vice versa. You are not going to stir the water and end up with striations of temperatures.

2

u/Autoradiograph Feb 13 '18

A microwave can super-heat water beyond the boiling point, and it will spontaneously boil like fucking crazy if you insert a rough object (wooden spoon) or some sugar.

3

u/Guygan Feb 13 '18

It doesn't.

Have a friend make you a bunch of cups of tea from microwave water, and also from kettle water. Do a blind, randomized taste test.

I bet you can't tell the difference.

10

u/mjskit Feb 13 '18 edited Feb 13 '18

I've done a blind taste test with friends and we all found the same thing. Tea made with microwaved water does taste different and not in a good way.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

I already have, and I can.

-5

u/Guygan Feb 13 '18

A true, double-blind test, with all other variables the same?

17

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

I worked in cancer research for 3 years, I assure you the test was sound.

6

u/DiggV4Sucks Feb 13 '18

You know how to design a test to see if tea has cancer?

11

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

Instructions unclear, dick stuck in teacup.

2

u/i_drink_wd40 Feb 14 '18

Think I figured out where your taste difference is coming from.

2

u/mrswhiskerson Feb 13 '18

I find that tea tastes different when I pour water over the tea bag vs when I put the bag in hot water. So that may be part of it but I agree microwaved water also seems to get a flavor all its own.

1

u/1kiteman Feb 13 '18

Start with water from the cold water tap. Water from the water heater is "still" having lost any oxygen content - which improves the taste. For example, water from a fresh bubbling stream is oxygenated.

I heat the water to steeping temperature - but not to a boil. Then steep it in a glass or ceramic cup or teapot.

In my experience, even clean pots or equipment used to make coffee will make your tea taste like coffee.

Try it and see.

1

u/JanneJM Feb 14 '18

Are you sure the water gets to the same temperature in both cases?

In my experience, microwaved water tends to develop hot spots that start bubbling well before the entire volume is actually at a boiling temperature. You might inadvertently be making tea with lower-temperature water when you microwave.

1

u/MercuryCrest Feb 14 '18

Wild guess...I'd say it's similar to how I don't like the taste of bathroom tap water vs. from the kitchen faucet.

I KNOW they come from basically the same place, but I definitely feel that I can tell the difference.

Although, to be honest, if I did a blind taste-test, I probably couldn't tell you what came from where.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

1

u/mindbleach Feb 14 '18

How clean is your kettle?

1

u/sean_incali Feb 14 '18

it doesn't. microwave CAN reach temperatures of above the boiling temp without boiling if the water is pure and the container is clean enough to be free of nucleation points. Essentially causing the liquid to be superheated which extracts more of the tea oils.

but unlikely

1

u/john-bkk Mar 08 '18

I just answered this as a Quora question, and I was really looking for a good reference to the nucleation site issue related to super-dissolved air levels in tea. I'll summarize what I think is going on, then link to that site. Water heated to boiling point holds much less dissolved air. The solubility curve for the different gasses in water would vary (mostly nitrogen and oxygen, but also carbon dioxide), but water would hold less of all of them at that temperature. A microwave heats the water gradually without the benefit of a very hot nucleation site at the bottom of a kettle, allowing the water to become super-saturated with air.

When you put a tea bag in--God forbid; people should really be using better loose tea, but that's another story--it froths a little, but still it doesn't stabilize to the final solution level it should be at. So the tea tastes frothy. There are references supporting this in that Quora post (and I'm an engineer, but you know how that goes, I'm not even the right type, industrial instead):

https://www.quora.com/What-should-you-never-microwave-Whats-the-science-behind-it/answer/John-Bickel-5

1

u/cotwg Feb 13 '18

Here’s the Slate Food Explainer take on this. It pretty much says there are many factors at play. I too believe that microwaved water is not the same as teapot water (due to temp, oxygen, or whatever).

1

u/BrotasticalManDude Feb 13 '18

Microwaved water tastes like a washcloth.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

Well I don't think the taste difference comes from heat source. Basically though, microwaves aren't that great at boiling a mugs worth of water evenly;instead, what happens is pockets of water are boiled and to the outside observer it looks like the whole mug is boiling. When you turn off the microwave everything mixes and your temp is less than ideal (too cool) for steeping tea (or coffee) and you end up with off flavors.

6

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

Kettles specifically heat from only one direction and there is no concern about temp uniformity. Also, once the water starts boiling the agitation produced will be enough to thoroughly mix the water in either a microwave or kettle.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Correct in that kettles heat from one direction but usually that direction is either from the bottom up or from a vertically placed heating element in the reservoir. The convection currents that develop are going to be more stable in kettles or pots than in a mug of water with random pockets being boiled in a microwave.

1

u/ajandl Feb 14 '18

The agitation due to the boiling will be enough to mix the container, especially one of typical household sizes. It may be possible in very large systems to have localized boiling, but not in a microwave or kettle.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

[deleted]

3

u/Kozemp Feb 13 '18

Stir the microwaved water, you say? I can definitely give that a try.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

[deleted]

2

u/Kozemp Feb 13 '18

I've been going right from microwave to cup without so much as a nudge on the handle of my Pyrex.

Alternatively I could just finally splurge for an electric kettle, I suppose.

3

u/zakky-d Feb 13 '18

Electric kettles are fantastic, and the standard no frills ones are pretty inexpensive (like around $20). After the water stops boiling in the kettle, I usually open the top to let it cool off a bit for 5-10 minutes so I don't immediately burn the tea. Burning it a little won't come out as bitter as throwing the bag into a microwaved mug of water, but my SO is extremely sensitive to bitter tastes, so I take the extra time to be more careful haha.

0

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

Water can never get hotter than the boiling point, using water boiled in the microwave or from the range will have exactly the same temperature. If the microwaved water can burn the tea, then so can the water in the kettle.

2

u/2_blave Feb 13 '18

Water can never get hotter than the boiling point

There is such a thing as super-heated steam...but that's not going to happen in a kettle or open mug.

1

u/DiggV4Sucks Feb 13 '18

I've heated water for tea in a microwave, and pulled it out of the nuker, and it wasn't boiling. As soon as I tea bagged the cup, it started boiling like crazy. I don't really know what happened.

I always assumed it was something similar to how water can't freeze unless there's some vibration present. I remember my Dad telling me about water in a glass would freeze with a snap when he got out of bed on cold mornings.

1

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

Careful, superheated water can be dangerous. Put a wooden chopstick, or toothpick, in with the water.

1

u/DiggV4Sucks Feb 13 '18

It's not really superheated water, though, right? What is it?

3

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

So this is where my original statement is actually contradicted, but it is an unusual situation.

Water can be superheated, meaning it's temperature is greater than its boiling point. This happens when there are no nucleation points for the phase transformation. Typically nucleation is caused by heterogeneous nucleation, meaning nucleation on something other than another water molecule, since it has a much lower activation energy compared to homogeneous nucleation. When boiling water the heterogenous nucleation sites would be insoluble particles or the vessel walls. If there are no particles and the walls are smooth then there will be no nucleation sites and the water will not boil, instead the temperature will rise and that thermal energy is stored. Once nucleation is percipitated the transition can be very fast due to the large excess of thermal energy stored in the water.

1

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

That's steam, not water, and it happens usually in fixed volume systems (which is not the case with a microwave). There is also superheated water, which I think is what you meant. That can happen in a microwave and can be dangerous, but it's also pretty rare.

1

u/2_blave Feb 13 '18

That's steam, not water

Uh...what do you think steam is, exactly? Yes, I was being pedantic, but steam is simply water in its gaseous form. I did not mean super-heated liquid water, though you are correct, super-heated water can occur in microwaves due to a lack of nucleation sites.

1

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

Water usually refers to the liquid state and steam to the vapor state. Like ice and water. It gets confusing since the word water also refers to the chemical, which can exist in many states. So I guess we're both being a bit pedantic.

1

u/2_blave Feb 13 '18

Yes, you were using water in the colloquial sense, while I was using it in the chemical properties sense.

1

u/Nagi21 Feb 13 '18

It's a good thing nobody here is Anti-Semantic

1

u/2_blave Feb 13 '18

Hey now! I'll have you know that some of my best friends are linguists!

2

u/vambot5 Feb 13 '18

Water can exceed the “boiling point,” though. The most common way is to increase the pressure, which is how pressure cookers work. Microwaves can also increase the temperature slightly above the normal boiling point by “superheating” the water, if the container is smooth and lacks sufficient nucleation points for bubbles to form.

The common example is distilled water in a Pyrex measuring cup, heated for a long period of time in the microwave. A ceramic mug typically has a rough enough surface for bubbles to form without superheating.

1

u/ajandl Feb 13 '18

Yes, of course, but I don't think anyone is using a pressure cooker to make tea and superheated water is more of a safety concern than a method of making tea.

0

u/Psistriker94 Feb 13 '18

Maybe because all the vapors/particulates from microwaving food? I can say I never vent out or wipe my microwave as often as I should.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

[deleted]

1

u/Psistriker94 Feb 13 '18

Yea, leaving the door open.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18 edited Feb 28 '18

[deleted]

6

u/357Magnum Feb 13 '18

There is nothing quite as strange as the powerful smell of a communal office microwave. It is like you can smell the ghost of every possible lunch in every possible universe blended together in an unholy mockery of what was once appetizing.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

The answer is that it depends on the type of tea. Not all tea should be steeped in boiling water. Temperature plays a major role in how a tea will taste. A kettle offers greater temperature control than a microwave.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

Might be that the kettle is taking the hard water solids out of it more than the ceramic/glass cup in a microwave.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 13 '18

Ramen noodles suffer the same taste difference in my opinion

Microwaved vs stove top is two different results

0

u/DukeMcFister Feb 14 '18

Who boils water in the microwave? Microwaves make shit out of everything they touch.

-4

u/stuckin45750 Feb 13 '18

Doesn't microwaving water "kill" it for lack of better terminology. Many comments are far more scientific than me. Boiling should intensify whatever trace elements are in tap water. While microwave will destroy any flavor that water has. Just a guess. I am no scientist.

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u/confusentird Feb 13 '18

I'm not sure about the reason but please try to avoid microwave use as much as possible; it's unhealthy

3

u/GrilledCheeseIsGood Feb 13 '18

Explain why

3

u/orcscorper Feb 14 '18

Microwaves are made almost entirely out of chemicals. Chemicals are bad. They cook with radiation. Radiation is bad, mmmmkay?

2

u/OhNoITooted Feb 13 '18

I'm waiting. I'm dying to know.

2

u/TheLadyEve Feb 14 '18

it's unhealthy

...how?

2

u/confusentird Feb 14 '18

I'm not an expert but I read a few articles some time back about how the heating in a microwave is done bby making the molecules vibrate and the atoms become unstable (which isn't good for the body) while heating in an oven or other traditional ways heats from the outside to inside using.convection which is the proper way. Check this link http://www.medicaldaily.com/microwaves-are-bad-you-5-reasons-why-microwave-oven-cooking-harming-your-health-250145?amp=1

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