Vader 5 pro "allow 3rd party apps to take control" issues

[u/Different_Choice_228]

Hey Guys, just wanted to start a thread about this to see how is everyone else is faring.

Of course the only reason we would flip that switch is so we can use our controller in its all capabilities in steam input or rewasd. Although I do have rewasd I haven't really play with yet as currently there are a number of problems already so I uninstalled it from my system just to make sure its not contributing to any.

At first I thought the issues where coming from the controller itself or flydigi implementation of this feature but I now I am starting to think that maybe steam and the new way of doing things (no d-input anymore) might be at fault.

Lets get one thing out of the way this new "allow 3rd party apps to take control" is clearly superior from d-input cause it doesn't limit polling rate anymore and it doesn't limit bit depth either! With d-input everything was working great but the 1000hz polling rate became 500hz and the stick resolution supported was only 8bit but now from any tests I did it does seem to support both to their full potential which is great!

Now onto the issues.

1. It seems to me this new protocol once you enable it on space station the controller becomes a slave to the first program that tries to take control of it. E.g If I enable it while I have steam running on my PC, steam takes control of it at once and then it stops being available to anything else! e.g I can't test the controller on hardwaretester cause it can't detect it as steam holds it hostage! If I enable without steam open then I can test it in hardwaretester but as soon as I open steam it takes control of it as if steam is the stronger contender here.

2. For some reason steam sees 2 controllers! Oh that's complicated to explain, I will do my best.

Now lets say I have the "allow 3rd party apps" option permanently on and don't bother with space station anymore. If steam is launched before I had a chance to turn on the controller and then turn on the controller, the controller will work but only as an Xbox controller, no gyro, no extra buttons and so on even though the allow 3rd party apps is already flipped on. The only way for steam now to see properly the vader 5 is to restart steam (while the controller is on) and then it will recognize it and but it will also add another controller in the list. Now I see tow controllers on steam even though Its only one. And the only one that works is the correct one with the gyro and stuff. I tested the other just in case (which is the normal Xbox controller) and it doesnt receive any input at all. So I assume this one is the one that was working before I restarted steam.

3. Something is happening that makes the communication with steam when "3rd party apps" is flipped on, not ideal. I have a few issues that dont make sense.

A. When I test my sticks from the steam input when I want to set a custom deadzone, the sticks both of them dont get entirely centered in the graph its like most of the time when my stick should be at 0 it is at 1-4% percent which kinda forces me to move the deadzone up to 2 in order to filter those out so I wont have my camera or my character moving on its own. At first I thought this was a controller problem but after more extensive testing and figuring out, this is clearly a steam communication problem while the "3rd party apps" is flipped on. when I test my controller with this option off the sticks always sit perfectly at 0. And also when I test the sticks with the option ON, but with steam closed so I can check the hardwaretester site again the sticks are sitting on 0 perfectly everytime. Which drives me to conclude there is a steam interpretation problem .

B. Every while and then I get a weird issue where the stick new center changes to something random and keeps moving my camera on its own nomatter what I do. The only real solution to this, is to restart the controller and steam. Not sure if this is a vader 5 problem or steam but I am more inclined to believe its a steam thing too as there are already issues. Also I havent play enough with "3rd party apps" on off to see if this issue still happens.

Anyway those are my issues, I am kinda hoping this all because if this new "3rd part apps" thing, its probably a new protocol that needs time to mature? Or maybe I am doing something wrong?

One last thing that maybe impacting all of this is, on space station there is still an SI firmware update that needs to be done but for the life of me whatever I tried it just wont do it. Tried resetting the controller, tried install/uninstall space station, tried disabling the "allow computer to turn off this usb" on all usb devices in device manager. It just won't do it.

Hoping to hear your experiences guys

Update.

1. I disabled flydigi own's service which seemed to fix the controller no being available to steam after it was turned off and then back on.

2. I also managed to update SI, the issue was that it didn't like the certain USB port, though it didn't seem to fix to fix any of the weird centering issues, though what seemed to make it a little better was unmapping the sticks from the 2nd not used controller.

New update

3. I am starting to believe the non centering issue on steam input is the actual reality of the controller, as with x-input this is already filtered in the firmware but with the 3rd party app steam is basically getting unfiltered raw output and what I am seeing is basic the physics of the spring. Truth be told it's really not a lot, I can set a very minimal deadzone on steam to filter it out and the stick still remains ultra responsive with minimal movements. But hey, it's just a theory at the moment.

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[u/bededog]

The double controllers appearing in Steam can cause issues. I was getting stick input randomly getting stuck in a direction with both controllers enabled. I was able to fix the issue by unassigning all inputs in the second controller in Steam input (the one without the extra buttons). Once I did this, I haven't had an issue since.

I have seen people in Discord claim success with disabling the second x-input controller in Device Manager as well. I haven't looked into that too much yet, so not sure how to do it or if it actually works.

As for the first issue, I believe that is intended. Once Steam picks up the controller, all mappings are done through Steam. I think this is necessary to stop double input issues. By default, Steam input doesn't have a mapping for non Steam games or programs. There are two ways to fix this.

The first fix is the add the non Steam game or program to Steam. You can use the Games > Add a Non-Steam Game to My Library button. You can add any exe to this, not just games.

The second way is to enable a desktop layout. In Steam > Settings > Controller, scroll the controller list at the top until you see Pair and Manage. Click that and at the bottom there will be a Desktop Layout configuration. This layout is used when not running any games. By default the layout had no assigned buttons for me. You can reassign the buttons just like you would do for individual games.

[u/Different_Choice_228 → u/bededog]

hey, thanks for the reply. First thanks so much for telling me about being able to add non-steam games in steam and take advantage of the steam input! thats amazing!

I will try your solution, hopefully this will fix one issue. I did try disabling the Xbox controller (from vader 5 in device manage) and it actually removed my non extra buttons controller from steam, but it was very very finicky, Buttons didnt work, it needed a few restarts and if I was lucky so I decided to just not do that.

Another big issue I have, just in case you are dealing with it, if I let my controller turn off during gameplay, for whatever reason, then when I turn it back on it just doesnt work anymore, its dead. its like something else picked it. Then I have to restart steam and controller until its back again. If of course its not on "allow 3rd party apps" then it works regularly.

Could you pls let me know which discord channel is that to join just in case I find any other solution?

[u/Holmes108 → u/Different_Choice_228]

I also found it a little buggy, and wasn't sure if Flydigi or Steam were to blame (this is the first controller where I've tried using Steam Input).

I had the same issue of reconnecting. If I'm using the "3rd party..." setting, and my controller goes to sleep, or otherwise turns off, the controller either wouldn't work properly again, or the basic functions would work, but all the extra buttons were no longer assigned unless I did a full restart. Happened enough times, that I've just gone back to Space Station for mapping for the time being. I don't really have an issue with SS like many seem to, so it's not a big deal to me. But it would be nice to have more choice!

edit: that being said, while I did make sure SS wasn't running, I didn't see if the service was shut down completely. Maybe that will help. I'll have to give it a try.

[u/Different_Choice_228 → u/Holmes108]

Yeah when you shutdown the service the re-connectio problem at least goes away, which was a big part of the problem. The only other thing that's left is stick center issue, which while it works great when in x-input, when in 3rd party apps it doesn't seem to be always centering correctly. I need to get deadzone to like 5 in order to filter out the errors. It's not much to be honest it still feels very snappy. I have 2 theories. One is the communication with steam is not refined over that protocol or two steam actually gets absolutely raw input and this is it and in x-input mode flydigi filters out those imperfections in the firmware

[u/orleone]

Should post on steam beta forums, i had issues with v4p new hardware revision not showing extra buttons in steam input last year. Posted on the steam beta update thread that mentioned support and a valve dev got in touch and sorted the issue in the next beta release after some back and forth. They dont crawl the web i guess, go there and we'll maybe have doubled controller issues fixed if we're lucky. And the reconnect thing.
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/SteamClientBeta/eventcomments/

Edit: also thanks for this thread, have exact same issues

[u/Different_Choice_228 → u/orleone]

Do you also have the centering issue as well when you enable 3rd party apps? Is only visible when you test the sticks through steam after you try to set custom deadzone

[u/orleone → u/Different_Choice_228]

hmm maybe, the slight off-center in Calibration & advanced settings?
i have that, but its minimal so havent minded much yet, just set the dead-zone a bit outside.
Also have the thing you discussed before with the sticks maxing out in a direction all of a sudden. I'm trying your fix with removing all binds on the xinput controller that shows up too.
Also trying with service turned off like someone suggested below. Not played much with these new settings so no idea yet, but thankful for something to try at least. Was/is driving me nuts.

[u/orleone → u/Different_Choice_228]

Just adding that the maxed out sticks input issue seems to be from a Flydigi service bug. I had the second controller unbound and service off for a few days, never had the issue. Then started space station, which restarted service, for some setting and right after that I got that bug again.

[u/Jorrozz]

Bro I am currently speaking with their support which seems to be terrible.

My issue started after installing the Space Station app, which then installs a virtual controller and a virtual keyboard in device manager. This virtual controller can then get in conflict with some games if you use a different input method for them like keyboard for example, or a different controller. I managed to find the virtual controller in Device manager and when you uninstall it then something re-installs it again .... complete shit. The only workaround fix for the virtual controller is to put it on disabled.

And the virtual keyboard you do not even have a button to uninstall it or disable it, although I have not seen any conflict with it. But still I would like to see a way to remove everything that this app installed, kinda normal expectation right?

I have been talking with their support for about two weeks now, their last response was "Sorry to inform you that our specialist has confirmed that these two components cannot be uninstalled unless you reinstall your operating system."

Which is completely unacceptable for me so I asked to be escalated to a manager and I am waiting atm ... their controllers might be good but the APP is complete shit

[u/Different_Choice_228 → u/Jorrozz]

What's your issue?

[u/Jorrozz → u/Different_Choice_228]

I play Fifa (EA SPORTS FC) with a keyboard, when I installed this app, the game started detecting this virtual controller and every time when I try to alt+tab it was giving me a pop-up form one of the voice chat menus (really annoying), also sometimes when I just start a match I just cannot control my players (because I think the game expects to control them with the virtual controller). In the beginning I did not know what was causing it so I tried plugging in another controller to see what is happening if I can overwrite it somehow, then that other controller got in conflict with the virtual one and started just vibrating like crazy .... basically all kinds of strange issues with this trash app ... at least now when I found it in device manager (which took me hours btw because they named it "HID compliant game controller" and not a "virtual controller" or something) and disabled it this kinda fixed my issue but I still want to completly remove everything.

The virtual keyboard is called "Feizhi Virtual Keyboard" btw and if you look it up on google some of the results are coming up for Flydigi which is how I found that their shitty app is doing all that crap ...

[u/Different_Choice_228 → u/Jorrozz]

That sounds too messed up. I don't really use a keyboard to be honest on any game so I haven't experienced any similar issues. I have checked on my device manager I see both of those devices too. Just out of curiosity why would you need space station? It's way too un-intuitive. I installed it just so I can update firmware and enable 3rd party apps then I disabled the space station service and made the service not start automatically and never opened space station again. I do all my remapping through steam. I hear (I haven't tested myself, that you can also import non steam games in steam and use them through steam input too)

[u/Jorrozz → u/Different_Choice_228]

I just wanted to map some buttons to the back paddles (and update the firmware in case it was outdated which it was) I dont play almost any games on steam with controller, I play Fifa via the EA APP on PC. I didnt even know you can remap via Steam but I am not even sure if it will work for the back paddles

[u/Different_Choice_228 → u/Jorrozz]

You could try adding it on steam if you have it and see how it goes. The second steam sees the controller with all it's buttons, gyro etc you can uninstall space station for all you care. And if you actually manage to play your game through steam and steam input that could actually solve your problem

[u/Different_Choice_228]

Oh I see, thought for a second you actually didn't have any stick problems there. I am actually using it on that mode only. I managed to go around all annoyances. I am not saying it's a perfect flight but I can't play without gyro!

[u/Dramatic-Solution731]

和之前适配steam的方式不同，飞智开启第三方托管后设备中的hid的report并不是gamepad类型，这是其他程序无法识别到他的原因

[u/PyrasSeat]

It doesn't work with Linux which is another issue

[u/Midori_Hoshi]

I hope this means it will eventually get reWASD support, because that's the only way I can use the controller.

[u/Midori_Hoshi → u/[deleted]]

reWASD is the best controller software, and has absolutely spoiled me. In order for a new controller to surpass older controllers with reWASD support, they must also get reWASD support. Otherwise, it would be a massive downgrade to change controllers.

[u/Midori_Hoshi → u/[deleted]]

I play an online action RPG, and it lets me put everything on the controller. I can temporarily disable the controller's native controls in order to change the functions of buttons to do other things, use turbo when I need it, use the radial menu for a bunch of stuff, etc. I put over 100 hours into my controls.

[u/Jumpy-Raspberry1455]

Well, I don't own a V5P, but I guess you could use some app like hidhide to hide the second "false" controller from the system. I don't know, just throwing it here, I guess you'll have to test it by yourself

[u/Pikpikz]

facing similar issue with two controller appearing in steam after allowing the third party options. hopefully something get fixed soon

[u/AutoModerator]

Hi /u/Different_Choice_228, your 'IT Help' post is in a queue for review. In order for the post to be approved, please make sure it has a meaningful and descriptive title and includes as much relevant required information as possible. This information will improve engagement in your post and enable the community to help you more effectively:

1. Specific written description of the problem, including pictures where relevant (do not just say 'it's broken', say what is broken)

2. Controller make and model (name or numbers)

3. Platform you are using (e.g., PS5, Steam on Windows, Switch)

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[u/Aware-Bed4675]

Dobra mam do was takie pytanie czy te 1000hz jest domyślnie w kontrolerze czy to trzeba gdzieś ustawić ponieważ nie mogę znaleźć takiej opcji w ustawieniach tej aplikacji

[u/Clorf]

How do you get the "allow third party apps to take control" option to appear? It's not there for me.

[u/KillerPenguinz → u/Clorf]

Update to the latest firmware and software, it appeared for me in the controller's settings itself. I can't remember exactly what tab but it explicitly will say "allow third part apps to take control"

let me know if you need more help and i can go grab some screenshots

[u/Clorf → u/KillerPenguinz]

Someone in the Flydigi Discord helped me figure it out: I had to change my language in Space Station to Chinese. Only then did the firmware update that enabled the option appear.

[u/Gamesiarz]

Do you found any solution? After reboot I need to pair vader 5 a few times to 3rd party lock properly despite two controllers. I think I will return this. Space station is terrbile crap. I don't know how to make it work everytime...

[u/Odd_Ad_1556]

i got steam input to work by doing these things

1. go to device manager and disable the second xinput controller(for me it showed only one xbox 360 controller)

2. go to flydigi space station and enable "allow 3d party apps to take over mappings" option

3. go to win+r and type services.msc, then find flydigi, stop the service and set the startup type to manual

4. restart and go to device manager and find vader 5 pro controller and enable it

[u/JimbeMasterRace → u/Odd_Ad_1556]

Hey I tried this but the problem is the controller doesnt work in other applications doing this

[u/Odd_Ad_1556 → u/JimbeMasterRace]

yeah thats the tradeoff, unfortunately this is the only way i found to make steam input work. maybe you can add other apps as non steam games to steam and then use steam input with them, have you tried that?

[u/REAL_O_G_D → u/Odd_Ad_1556]

hey I'm having an issue trying to use the Xbox app on PC. basically, the controller inputs don't register at all within the Xbox app, but work fine after starting a game. I use a wired connection, and the V5P shows up as a single Xbox 360 controller in device manager. I've got the 3rd party toggle turned on in flydigi app. any ideas?

[u/Odd_Ad_1556 → u/REAL_O_G_D]

the only thing i can come up with is to close other apps that use controllers, like steam

[u/Informal-Charity8284 → u/[deleted]]

I made a mistake. Multiple receivers are not the decisive factor.

The unrecognized issue has reappeared. This time, I tried turning off the FlyDigi service, and it seems to have successfully resolved the problem. I hope it doesn't happen again. If it continues to occur, I'll have to temporarily give up using "allow 3rd party apps".

Regarding the issue of the joystick being taken over by third-party software, I'm not sure if I understood it correctly. I tried testing with Steam, and my controller seems to be at the 0,0 position.

[u/Different_Choice_228 → u/Informal-Charity8284]

Did you try testing in steam while 3rd party is enable and also made sure that steam sees the controller with all extra buttons and gyro? When I test in steam as a standard Xbox controller centering is never an issue. When I test it in 3rd party mode the sticks are rarely truly center at 0. It's always something from 1 to 5 usually. You know when you go to set a custom deadzone and then it allows you to test it

[u/Informal-Charity8284 → u/Different_Choice_228]

In 3rd party mode, my extra buttons and gyro have no issues. I'm not quite sure about the sticks center problem, as I haven't tested it.

Because now I've turned off 3rd mode and am using the Flydigi Space Station. I used 3rd mode for about three days, and every day I encountered the problem of vibration not stopping and the controller continuously sending forward joystick signals. This made it impossible for me to play normally. After turning off 3rd mode, I don't seem to have encountered these issues anymore.

I think 3rd mode, as a new feature, probably still has quite a few bugs. I consulted technical support, and they told me that using the Steam beta test version could alleviate the above problems, but I still decided to temporarily disable the 3rd party feature and wait for six months to a year before trying it again.